Is Chivarly out of hands?



  • Is Chivarly out of hands or is this another of great innovation of 21st century?

    I used to be a great fan of chivarly, even after 300h+ I enjoyed it thoroughly.
    But lately almost everyday it’s more annoying than enjoyable.

    What is wrong, TornBanner? What is so hard at balancing weapons? If it’s too fast, slow it down.
    Back in the beginnings, Chivarly was so realistic, that when I first took a sword in my hand it turned out I knew how to use it. Yes, that’s how realistic it was. That’s how good it felt, so good I couldnt get enough of it.

    Instead of whining throughout the post I would like to ask with a few suggestions:

    Firstly, why is sprint available during attacks? Not only it’s very unrealistic to do so, but also it’s the main factor to spoil the gameplay. The mother of spamguard, should I say.
    Secondly, why is the game becoming so much worse? You boasted about using mouse as arms and wasd as footwork, but why would I even use footwork if I have broken feints and delayed attacks, which shouldnt be introduced at all? When a weapon is delayed, it loses all of it’s momentum, thus damage.
    And lastly - as a devoted and fervent man-at-arms, I’ll ask once more. Why is MAA still not balanced?
    Nerf it, darnyou, balance the dodge.

    My suggestion is to make combat a bit more static, like in real life. To make it splendid and full of footwork once again.



  • Its nothing TB did wrong, its just that the majority of the player base has become proficient at using all of the aspects of the game now.

    TB did fix the game for the better, they made the mechanics more intuitive and more balanced, and as a result a large percentage of the player base had a big dummy spit and cry. The reason that portion of the player base did that is because they are the type of player who seek to become experts at exploiting mechanics in the game (any game for that matter) so that they can have an unbeatable advantage over those who stay within the norms of the game and that tends to be at the newbs expense.

    That aside, i think it would be interesting if when your sprinting your movement speed is reduced to standard walking speed and then once the attack is complete you resume sprint speed.

    with regard to MAA i’m not so sure that dodge really needs all that much work. What i find to be the biggest challenge when fighting against MAA is that they can spontaneously change from sprinting backwards to sprinting forwards and given that they’re the fastest moving class it is a little bit over the top. When you combine that feature with ridiculous reaching stabs its a little bit broken. BECAUSE the little MAA can out reach a longsword stab with his [insert small weapon here] when the stabs happen at the same time…… even when the longsword stab is released slightly before the MAA’s stab…

    SO in summary because of a few little things the diversity in loadouts that people use is very small now and this can be frustrating as you get forced to use loadouts which you might not normally use just to be competitive.
    eg
    hands up whos going to use a flail when vs’ing a MAA with a broadsword?



  • @Vultar:

    Chivarly was so realistic

    @giantyak:

    TB did fix the game for the better, they made the mechanics more intuitive and more balanced

    @giantyak:

    exploiting mechanics

    @giantyak:

    unbeatable advantage

    @giantyak:

    norms of the game



  • Oh well. Be that as it may. I guess my adventure with TornBanner ends here then.
    But makes me wonder - if they wish the game to look like it does now, why on all the trailers they don’t play it this way?



  • Once they finish deadliest warrior they will have time to fix bugs and balance shit.

    I’ve seen the speed at which they are making deadliest warrior. When that’s done all they will have to do if fix things as balance.

    And we all know a large amount of balance changes is not a good idea. They will still be fixing and balancing for deadliest warrior too. So I wouldn’t expect a large amount of things changed balance wise.

    We need small amount of things changed over a period of time.



  • @lemonater47:

    Once they finish deadliest warrior they will have time to fix bugs and balance

    Source?



  • @lemonater47:

    Once they finish deadliest warrior they will have time to fix balance .

    @lemonater47:

    When that’s done all they will have to do if fix things as balance.

    @lemonater47:

    So I wouldn’t expect a large amount of things changed balance wise.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron



  • @gregcau:

    @lemonater47:

    Once they finish deadliest warrior they will have time to fix bugs and balance

    Source?

    Common sense.

    And put the whole thing into context ya fool before you say its an oxymoron. On their own those sentences are.

    Unless they are complete idiots they won’t be doing a lot of balance changes all in one go. There’s still all the fixes to do instead.



  • @lemonater47:

    Once they finish deadliest warrior they will have time to fix bugs and balance

    I cannot fathom how, based on the company’s performance over the last 11 months, you could come to that conclusion.



  • @Vultar:

    What is so hard at balancing weapons? If it’s too fast, slow it down.

    You need a patch cycle faster than “one balance patch in 6 months”.



  • @giantyak:

    Its nothing TB did wrong, its just that the majority of the player base has become proficient at using all of the aspects of the game now.

    TB did fix the game for the better, they made the mechanics more intuitive and more balanced, and as a result a large percentage of the player base had a big dummy spit and cry. The reason that portion of the player base did that is because they are the type of player who seek to become experts at exploiting mechanics in the game (any game for that matter) so that they can have an unbeatable advantage over those who stay within the norms of the game and that tends to be at the newbs expense.
    **
    That aside, i think it would be interesting if when your sprinting your movement speed is reduced to standard walking speed and then once the attack is complete you resume sprint speed.**

    No NO NO! A version of this was tried in AOC called Toe2Toe and it killed the mod. It basically said that once you attacked or parried you could not sprint for 2 seconds and were forced to fight. It totally negated the tactic of hit and run. This tactic is completely valid in which you run into combat, make an attack and keep running. This tactic is necessary when combating more than one enemy or picking off enemies during a furball. Toe2Toe prevented this and forced you basically to die. This would essentially do the same thing.

    with regard to MAA i’m not so sure that dodge really needs all that much work. What i find to be the biggest challenge when fighting against MAA is that they can spontaneously change from sprinting backwards to sprinting forwards and given that they’re the fastest moving class it is a little bit over the top. When you combine that feature with ridiculous reaching stabs its a little bit broken. BECAUSE the little MAA can out reach a longsword stab with his [insert small weapon here] when the stabs happen at the same time…… even when the longsword stab is released slightly before the MAA’s stab…

    SO in summary because of a few little things the diversity in loadouts that people use is very small now and this can be frustrating as you get forced to use loadouts which you might not normally use just to be competitive.
    eg
    hands up whos going to use a flail when vs’ing a MAA with a broadsword?

    One of the things I was always suprised about is that they gave certain “powers” to certain classes when in fact, all classes should be able to do them. The difference would be in distance, speed and stam cost. So that a dodging fully armored knight’s dodge would be slightly slower, shorter distance and require more stamina than a light weight, lightly armored class. The same would be true of sprint attack for all classes. What would have to happen is a more realistic approach to weapon balance. So no daggers parring any heavy weapons without taking some damage as well.

    That aside, I would disagree to more intuitive in game play. The fact of slowing down an attack and getting the same damage is simply silly and far from fair. Also the whole bubble fix is what is killing the game currently. Facehugging is not a problem and a valid tactic. As in real life I could hug you and stab you in the back with a dagger. TRUTH. There are some challenges with larger weapons but if animation timing were correct and not instant in some cases there would be no problems with it. The bubble is the only change that has caused all the effects in excess of ping, of missed swings, parries, long distance hits and jump bubble freeze and bubble crushing against objects. Thus no swing or parry is guaranteed. thus removing accuracy and skill.

    Also some of the noob friendly changes dumbed down the game even further by lowering the bar so much that James Cameron cannot find it.
    1w7Ol1qDg-o



  • That would be a very interesting game if it was like you said.

    Most two handers could kill you from behind
    Maul charges
    Archers using dodge and crossbows



  • @Vultar:

    Oh well. Be that as it may. I guess my adventure with TornBanner ends here then.
    But makes me wonder - if they wish the game to look like it does now, why on all the trailers they don’t play it this way?

    Interesting note that in the fist Chivalry trailer the game speed was noticeably slowed down. 90% at some times and much lower at others. I would like to see what the game would look like on slower speeds one day.



  • I cannot fathom how, based on the company’s performance over the last 11 months, you could come to that conclusion.

    +1



  • @lemonater47:

    @gregcau:

    @lemonater47:

    Once they finish deadliest warrior they will have time to fix bugs and balance

    Source?

    Common sense.

    Common sense would say they will ditch the CMW code base and start afresh.

    Which is what they basically did with CDW.

    Perhaps they will get the SDK out this year, perhaps it will turn out to be too expensive to bother with. It is hard to say.

    As for bug fixes, I think you are naiive to think after a year they will suddenly go work on lots of bug fixes.

    Even more naiive is to think they will revisit “balance changes”.

    Personally I think balance is fine and any more changes will just cause more problems than it will fix.



  • @gregcau:

    @lemonater47:

    @gregcau:

    Source?

    Common sense.

    Common sense would say they will ditch the CMW code base and start afresh.

    Which is what they basically did with CDW.

    Perhaps they will get the SDK out this year, perhaps it will turn out to be too expensive to bother with. It is hard to say.

    As for bug fixes, I think you are naiive to think after a year they will suddenly go work on lots of bug fixes.

    Even more naiive is to think they will revisit “balance changes”.

    Personally I think balance is fine and any more changes will just cause more problems than it will fix.

    Other than just being pessimistic have you got anything to else to back your opinions.

    What else are they gonna do?



  • @lemonater47:

    Other than just being pessimistic have you got anything to else to back your opinions.

    What else are they gonna do?

    Focus their efforts on Deadliest Warrior? It’s their next product, might as well polish it.



  • removing the sprint would only make it slower and weaker silly, sprinting while attacking is fine that def is not the problem with the gameplay dude.

    the bugs that have ruined the gameplay should be removed or at least slim down the list a bit then
    the flinch times need to be lowered, remove the random stun dazes and slim down the huge player mesh (bubble) and the ridicolous stam drains need to be lowered to smooth out the combat and make it a fair combat system and also not hinder you when fighting 3 or more people by yourself.
    make weapon switching possible when flinch is halfway over to allow for blocking a 2nd attack if you somehow survive the first while you have a ranged weapon.

    without tackling these issues even if in moderation it will never be where it needs to be.

    Dr.Nick wrote:

    I would like to see what the game would look like on slower speeds one day.

    slow motion games are prett epic too, but dont slow the entire game down, the admins can change that at any time, ive been running them on my server every 3 or 4 maps for like a year now and it is a great change from the fast pace i run on my server and it also makes you dam good from playing them, and the dcaps and ragdols are truly epic.



  • @Skreshavik:

    @lemonater47:

    Other than just being pessimistic have you got anything to else to back your opinions.

    What else are they gonna do?

    Focus their efforts on Deadliest Warrior? It’s their next product, might as well polish it.

    Exactly, then new product.

    But I am sure lemon will keep posting on how they will fix all the bugs, add balance changes, add maps etc.



  • Back to the original post I would have to admit that at lease 1/3 of my current clan members no longer play chiv because they get more frustration than enjoyment. In addition, most all former clan members that left to pursue start up clans totally quit playing Chiv and these guys were long time AOC players in my clan. In total I would say, just from the Kila clan that at least 30 former members no longer play Chiv. At one time we had over 75 members. Now we are down to about 20 regular CHIV players.

    These were seasoned AOC and even seasoned and skilled CHIV players that no longer play. For one of the oldest clans in the game to have 1/3 or more members to totally quit playing says volumes. Not to mention all the clans that have virtually disappeared. Just go to the clan thread and see all the clan posts from clans that no longer exist. So take that for what it is worth


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