Poll: CFTP



  • @CRUSHED:

    2. Combo feint to parry

    Proponents of the removal of CFtP often cite that you could apply pressure while simultaneously remaining defensive, that you could choose to combo, OR, go into parry. The crux of this argument comes down to “You shouldn’t be able to do that.” which is a matter of opinion and cannot be proven one way or the other.

    Removing panic parry was a step into the right direction, now you need something to replace the hole it left. Basically its not fun nor good for the game that you can NOT fight multiple opponents “properly” without losing control over your player.

    I set properly into " because you can still fight multiple opponents, but only with dancing,kiting,matrix or some other stuff that doesn’t work without a bit of luck. And that is against bad opponents that have 500 hours less then me and are far less skilled.

    I know that you can dance around better in Deadliest Warrior because of the faster speed. But that feeling that there is an artificial “wall” that you hit, that makes the game feel a lot slower and more clunky, is still there.

    I dont think its good that comboing against multiple enemys equals dead most of the time because you completely lose control. I think combos are a huge part of the games combat and its not right that in order to fight multiple, decent players you have to do “one way” attacks and dumb yourself down.

    A good player can always beat multiple, worse players even without CFTP, but you need to be lucky for it because you have no influence if they hit their attacks or not sometimes.

    Ever since CFTP was removed, the game lost its high paced combat “flow”.

    Im not a good writer but this basically sums it up for me give or take. Higher player control is ALWAYS good, especially for a game like chivalry. I also feel like alot of competitive player disliked the removal of this.

    Suggestion:
    Bring back CFTP, keep stamina values as they are right now.
    Include in Tutorial (it makes sense with the mechanics!)

    Think about it, anyone who is good at the game knows that CFTP is weak and can be countered.

    It has a hard counter (feint) which brings you into a horrible position. Just bring it back to bring back the awesome flow of combat chivalry had with CFTP in Team modes.

    Its not even that needed anymore as in CMW because with the high speed you can get out of bad situations easier. However it would still be amazing to have as a additional tool you can use.

    I was actually the one who made the big “Anti CFTP” thread very back then in March. I was a fool and now i realized that that was a big mistake. I learned, and realized how good it actually was for the game.

    Artificial skill caps that dumb down a good player are bad.

    @Walter:

    This. That is exactly how I feel about CMW at the moment. FFA used to be extremely fun taking on 3 or 4 people at once and still coming out alive. It added to the immersion. Now, just like Crushed has said, you can only really benefit from single attacks, maybe even resorting to killstealing since combo’s are not as effective as they once were. CFtP was never an “op” feature as some may think, it takes a bit of skill to know when to do it and was much better than the current panic parry.

    @kywild:

    Bring in combo feint to parry and feint to parry. Without it it will be close to impossible to get a flow in combat and if ur up against 2 or more people, if you try to hit 1 the other guy will hit you before you can parry every single time. I doubt people will try to spend their time geting good at something if they can’t handle 3-4 noobs at a time. My bet is that it will feel incredibly unrewarding.

    I can guarantee that without some mechanic like this I won’t even bother buying the game.

    viewtopic.php?f=98&t=23467

    ^Another good explanation of how the mechanics work etc, but take it with a grain of salt as elegance = good combat flow is a matter of opinion

    Other problems without CFTP:

    -Dodge broken
    -Dual wield is going to be baaaaad

    Pretty much the only solid “argument” i heard against it is that you shouldn’t be able to combo all the time. However this is a matter of opinion.
    @RushSecond:

    Without combo parry, there’s just no downside to comboing constantly, because you are just as vulnerable as if you were to attack -> neutral, or ironically LESS vulnerable if CFTP is readded. I can’t possibly thinking of anyone as “competitive” if their idea of good mechanics is to promote constant attack as #1 safest play.

    However i put up some counter arguments to this in the other thread.

    You will still need CFTP in alot of situations especially 1vN and 1v1’s, Dodge etc, however thanks to the fast movementspeed you have additional options not going into combo, but they are not as reliable.



  • Why do we need 3 bloody threads about it?

    And the 160 of us testers are hardly representative of the population.



  • @lemonater47:

    Why do we need 3 bloody threads about it?

    And the 160 of us testers are hardly representative of the population.

    Because this is one of the most important mechanics for high level play.

    Its important for gameplay and for sales (from the EU vets)



  • @CRUSHED:

    @lemonater47:

    Why do we need 3 bloody threads about it?

    And the 160 of us testers are hardly representative of the population.

    Because this is one of the most important mechanics for high level play.

    Its important for gameplay and for sales (from the EU vets)

    For sales?

    So it appeals to the minority the competitive veterans?

    Don’t put sales in your argument.



  • The amount of competitive - semi competitive players that care about the games balance is WAY higher then you think.



  • Hell just adding hats brought a ton of people back so they could get shiney gold hats.

    Imagine how many people would return with polished competitive combat mechanics. Even something like a competitive ladder would be a big incentive.

    The PC competitive gaming community has always been on the look out for the next competitive game. Every time any competitive multiplayer game gets released on PC there is always huge interest in competitive play, even if the game ends up turning out like crap. cough Brink cough



  • CFTP was the the best for a variety of reasons, and I would wish for nothing else but its return. Unfortunately, some of the devs simply don’t like the offense/defense switching, and make the game the way they want, which is fair enough.

    Anything is better than the dancing combat though, TBH… bleh.



  • Getting competitive ruined bad company 2 for me.



  • Can these people voting no atleast give an constructive argument why they voted no? Just curious.



  • Yes, i’m sure making 3 separate threads about this is completely necessary and will convince everyone you’re right. I’m honestly on the fence about the whole thing, but have some perspective, us beta testers absolutely do NOT represent everyone who will play DW, and using sales as an argument is absolutely ridiculous, you have absolutely no proof that the addition or removal of this mechanic will affect a significant amount of people who are planning to buy the game. High level play needs far more things to be implemented before it is taking seriously, what is the fixation with this one mechanic as if it will make or break competitive play, as if there aren’t tens of other things the game needs before competitive or ‘high level’ play will be taken seriously?

    Like I said, i’m on the fence but if this is how you try and convince people then you’re doing a terrible job and what the devs are going to see is the same old argument that didn’t stop them from removing it before. The thing that gets me is that there seems to be an almost obsession with this mechanic as if it is the be all or end all of high level play, which is completely untrue.

    I would like to see someone higher up weigh in on this in some way but honestly the way things are going it would probably only spark another 5 pages of arguments that accomplish absolutely nothing.



  • @MC:

    Yes, i’m sure making 3 separate threads about this is completely necessary and will convince everyone you’re right. I’m honestly on the fence about the whole thing, but have some perspective, us beta testers absolutely do NOT represent everyone who will play DW, and using sales as an argument is absolutely ridiculous, you have absolutely no proof that the addition or removal of this mechanic will affect a significant amount of people who are planning to buy the game. High level play needs far more things to be implemented before it is taking seriously, what is the fixation with this one mechanic as if it will make or break competitive play, as if there aren’t tens of other things the game needs before competitive or ‘high level’ play will be taken seriously?

    Like I said, i’m on the fence but if this is how you try and convince people then you’re doing a terrible job and what the devs are going to see is the same old argument that didn’t stop them from removing it before. The thing that gets me is that there seems to be an almost obsession with this mechanic as if it is the be all or end all of high level play, which is completely untrue.

    I would like to see someone higher up weigh in on this in some way but honestly the way things are going it would probably only spark another 5 pages of arguments that accomplish absolutely nothing.

    Opinion.

    Also didnt make 3 threads just one for me and one for the poll

    The thing is that the removal of this mechanic was a partial reason of the european competitive scene dying. Nobody says it but everyone knows.

    I have talked to quite alot of people about this. Most won’t buy DW unless TBS tries to make up with the community, fixing the mistakes they made(aka bubble,cftp removal), so i was told. Some won’t buy it when certain mechanics that are needed for comp play will still be gone for no reason like me and some others that posted here.

    Anyway you have no arguments against this mechanic, simple as that.

    I’m not trying to convince anyone, im just stating simple facts.



  • They fixed the bubble part mostly.



  • So 1 step forward 2 steps back.



  • Start the 0.4s CFTP lockout from the moment of the combo start, instead of the moment of the feint. That way combos are still a risk, but CFTP advocators still get about 75% of the control they want. Both sides win.



  • So… well see what actions will happen based on all this feedback.



  • This really is not the right time for this. Even though we’re in the beta and it theoretically is. The fact of the matter is, is that most people here (and with here, I mean the forums) are hardcore chivalry players, people that care, that know, and love the game. People that know the game in and out and whenever something changes to the combat system as small as that may be, they notice it. And that’s the problem with it, there are just not enough people that know, or care about CFTP. If TBS would put it back in the game they would be rewarding small but very passionate fraction of the community, which would be awesome. But…I don’t see them do that, frankly. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, TBS should make a hardcore mode. Or a competitive mode, or a pro mode, whatever you may call it. A mode that brings all the things back while also removing some things that you guys don’t like (the bubble for instance). I think that would be the best option. Because making all those changes to the main game would, to be brutally honest, a waste of their time.



  • @CRUSHED:

    @MC:

    I have talked to quite alot of people about this. Most won’t buy DW unless TBS tries to make up with the community, fixing the mistakes they made(aka bubble,cftp removal), so i was told. Some won’t buy it when certain mechanics that are needed for comp play will still be gone for no reason like me and some others that posted here.

    The removal of CFtP was definitely a move that catered to the newer crowd and they tried to keep them around. Removing it (and messing with feint windows) didn’t really add anything to the game’s player retention, and it also (along with the big balance changes) destroyed the competitive communities of both NA and EU. None of the positive effects seemed to happen and the negative effects made it more of a ghost town.

    Honestly new players don’t care about mechanics like this much, I doubt 80% of the crowd that played Chiv “back then” even knew what CFtP was. They want content. That’s cool- give them content by selling them cosmetic microtransactions or something. Give us our awesome mechanics and gameplay back. I’d really like this game to maintain a player base AND competitive community, since CMW barely has either right now.

    Please learn from your experience guys. Please. Please. Please.

    It is sorely needed in this game, with all the 12 on 12 on 12 on 12 combat promised…



  • The removal of CFtP was definitely a move that catered to the newer crowd and they tried to keep them around.

    The game also had a free week(or was is just a sale) post removal and dumbing the game down :?

    Coincedence? I think not…



  • Remember when they wanted to remove drags?

    Yeah…


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