Spartan Hoplite



  • I think the spartan model is really lacking in detail compared to the other classes. It seems bland and unrealistic considering the spartan isn’t even wearing a shirt under that bronze armor. I am not an expert on the Greek hoplite but it would be nice to see a more layered version of the spartan model with the leather skirt or the alternative linothorax armor. I’m not saying the current model should be removed but the choice to wear the suggested additional pieces of armor would be ideal.

    Some pics



  • Pfft haven’t you seen 300. Its a perfectly historically accurate film of Spartans in 400BC.



  • I agree, the Spartan is lacking in detail and textures.



  • @lemonater47:

    Pfft haven’t you seen 300. Its a perfectly historically accurate film of Spartans in 400BC.

    I know right. If you didn’t know better, you’d think they had a camera-man back there in 400BC rather than it being a movie.



  • @lemonater47:

    Pfft haven’t you seen 300. Its a perfectly historically accurate film of Spartans in 400BC.

    I really haven’t, but I do want to watch it after playing the spartan.



  • In all seriousness a linothorax would be a good edition. And a sort of tunic that is slung over one shoulder would be cool too.

    I think savage beatings made a thread about this too.

    The textures do need to improve on his little skirt though. It just doesn’t look textured very much. Needs to look more like cloth fabric instead of smooth silk.



  • He says that the organisation was based on an average row of 8 man deep. Four of these rows formed an enomotia or platoon; four enomotiai formed on their turn a pentekostis or company which was commanded by a pentekonter; four pentekosteis formed a lochos or battalion under the leadership of a lochagos. The average army had about seven of these lochois.



  • @lemonater47:

    I think savage beatings made a thread about this too.

    Yes, in the Alpha Testers Only fourm, I posted the following mock-ups some time ago.



  • I wish all Spartans just wore bronze armour, instead of them being bare chested which is silly and unhistorical. I’m mostly think that the elite hoplites, such as the Spartans, would wear bronze armour rather than the linothorax that other hoplites allegedly wore.



  • Okay I just finished watching 300…

    I was overwhelmed by the shear amount of realism and historical accuracy (Why do textbooks even exist?)

    Good movie though



  • @Boboda:

    Okay I just finished watching 300…

    I was overwhelmed by the realism down to the very last details…

    Good movie though

    Watch ‘Meet the Spartans’ for an even better historically accurate action/documentary movie on the battle of Thermopylae.



  • @wyrda78:

    I wish all Spartans just wore bronze armour, instead of them being bare chested which is silly and unhistorical. I’m mostly think that the elite hoplites, such as the Spartans, would wear bronze armour rather than the linothorax that other hoplites allegedly wore.

    The linothorax was worn more later in history just before the Romans came through Greece. Though it was more the standard of Carthaginian hoplites. They only had the linothorax and were equipped the same. They used all sorts of swords including Greek sword. Celtic, Iberian, roman and Greek weapons were used by the Carthaginians. They even made their own sword in the siege of Carthage which doesn’t actually have a name other than double sided falcata. Its believed it was only made during the siege of Carthage given the only ones found have been in Carthage, in rome as was trophies and on a sunken roman ship that was first thought to be Carthaginian as it had so much Carthaginian artefacts on board. No human remains suggests this ship was abandoned at sea on the way back to rome damaged. It also made it harder to tell who’s it was.

    Anyway more Greek variation is all for the better.



  • @lemonater47:

    @wyrda78:

    I wish all Spartans just wore bronze armour, instead of them being bare chested which is silly and unhistorical. I’m mostly think that the elite hoplites, such as the Spartans, would wear bronze armour rather than the linothorax that other hoplites allegedly wore.

    The linothorax was worn more later in history just before the Romans came through Greece. Though it was more the standard of Carthaginian hoplites. They only had the linothorax and were equipped the same. They used all sorts of swords including Greek sword. Celtic, Iberian, roman and Greek weapons were used by the Carthaginians. They even made their own sword in the siege of Carthage which doesn’t actually have a name other than double sided falcata. Its believed it was only made during the siege of Carthage given the only ones found have been in Carthage, in rome as was trophies and on a sunken roman ship that was first thought to be Carthaginian as it had so much Carthaginian artefacts on board. No human remains suggests this ship was abandoned at sea on the way back to rome damaged. It also made it harder to tell who’s it was.

    Anyway more Greek variation is all for the better.

    The Spartans in Chivalry: Deadliest Warrior are obviously based on the ones from 300; the linothorax doesn’t really fit those sort of Spartans (or the historical Spartans for that matter, since as you mentioned that armour is out of their time frame) so I doubt the devs will take the time to make the armour.
    I don’t doubt that some hoplites wore what is called by modern terms the ‘linothorax’, though there is much debate whether or not that armour is actually made from linen (an expensive material), which from the name is obviously derived. Lloyd makes a good video on his opinion on the matter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PuaUR3cFps



  • The “linothorax” coexisted a lot with the bronze cuirass, I think it was cheaper (and probably more comfortable on a sunny day) and therefore more common among soldiers. It’s hard to tell, because it’s 2500+ years ago and no linothorax has survived, whether it was linen or leather. All we have to go on is pottery and wall paintings and statues. Same thing with iron. Who knows if the greeks did or didn’t have iron armour? Bronze is all that has survived for that long, any potential iron armour is long gone and it’s hard to tell if someone is wearing bronze or iron in a vase painting. But at least we can choose to have iron coloured cuirasses in DW at least! :)

    Personally, I think the “linothorax” looks way cooler!



  • @SavageBeatings:

    The “linothorax” coexisted a lot with the bronze cuirass, I think it was cheaper (and probably more comfortable on a sunny day) and therefore more common among soldiers. It’s hard to tell, because it’s 2500+ years ago and no linothorax has survived, whether it was linen or leather. All we have to go on is pottery and wall paintings and statues. Same thing with iron. Who knows if the greeks did or didn’t have iron armour? Bronze is all that has survived for that long, any potential iron armour is long gone and it’s hard to tell if someone is wearing bronze or iron in a vase painting. But at least we can choose to have iron coloured cuirasses in DW at least! :)

    Personally, I think the “linothorax” looks way cooler!

    It coexisted but wasn’t that popular untill later. And it was pretty new compared to bronze armour.

    I mean if you were to go up to someone and say “do you want bronze or linen armour” what do you think they would choose.

    It was still very hard. 11-24 layers depending on the thickness of the thread. It made a shell. That’s why you see its in plates instead of one big plate so its more flexible.

    Its highly likely linen. Replicas have wothdtood point blame arrows. In fact a history lecturer shot a student wearing one without telling him before hand. A similar thing happened on TV but with consent.



  • Something I don’t like is the way you hold the spear when your shield is raised, I think it should look more like in this picture.



  • @lemonater47:

    @SavageBeatings:

    The “linothorax” coexisted a lot with the bronze cuirass, I think it was cheaper (and probably more comfortable on a sunny day) and therefore more common among soldiers. It’s hard to tell, because it’s 2500+ years ago and no linothorax has survived, whether it was linen or leather. All we have to go on is pottery and wall paintings and statues. Same thing with iron. Who knows if the greeks did or didn’t have iron armour? Bronze is all that has survived for that long, any potential iron armour is long gone and it’s hard to tell if someone is wearing bronze or iron in a vase painting. But at least we can choose to have iron coloured cuirasses in DW at least! :)

    Personally, I think the “linothorax” looks way cooler!

    It coexisted but wasn’t that popular untill later. And it was pretty new compared to bronze armour.

    I mean if you were to go up to someone and say “do you want bronze or linen armour” what do you think they would choose.

    It was still very hard. 11-24 layers depending on the thickness of the thread. It made a shell. That’s why you see its in plates instead of one big plate so its more flexible.

    Its highly likely linen. Replicas have wothdtood point blame arrows. In fact a history lecturer shot a student wearing one without telling him before hand. A similar thing happened on TV but with consent.

    Linothorax was very popular around the time of the Greco-Persian Wars, which is when movie ‘300’ takes place, and the Peloponnesian War. All these wars, Sparta played a big role. So instead of marching naked into battle, like in the movie, many Spartans would likely have worn linothorax. It was pretty popular through the Hellenistic period as well, with Alexander the Great and his army wearing it. There are loads of vases from this period where hoplites are wearing linothorax, so one can’t exactly say it’s unpopular.

    Also, the linothorax being made out of linen is popular opinion, but there’s no proof of it since there are no surviving examples and it’s hard to tell what material it is from vase paintings. Could have been made out of leather, which would also be very protective and much easier to handle and form than gluing 20 layers of linen together with a glue that is not even water resistant.



  • Linothorax means linen chest translated. So highly likely it was linen. And replicas have been made which suggest it was probably linen. Linothorax came from another Greek word meaning “wearing a breastplate of linen”. Several Greek writers have said it was linen.

    It was often combined with leather and iron. They even found an iron copy of one in a tomb.



  • @lemonater47:

    Linothorax means linen chest translated. So highly likely it was linen. And replicas have been made which suggest it was probably linen. Linothorax came from another Greek word meaning “wearing a breastplate of linen”. Several Greek writers have said it was linen.

    It was often combined with leather and iron. They even found an iron copy of one in a tomb.

    Did you watch the video? Linothorax is a modern word, not a word they used in Ancient Greece. It is much more probably that armour was made from leather.



  • @wyrda78:

    @lemonater47:

    Linothorax means linen chest translated. So highly likely it was linen. And replicas have been made which suggest it was probably linen. Linothorax came from another Greek word meaning “wearing a breastplate of linen”. Several Greek writers have said it was linen.

    It was often combined with leather and iron. They even found an iron copy of one in a tomb.

    Did you watch the video? Linothorax is a modern word, not a word they used in Ancient Greece. It is much more probably that armour was made from leather.

    Ahh yes but linothorax came from this word. ???. Which means “wearing a breastplate of linen”. Also written as ??? sometimes.


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