Ninja Design Overview and Ideas



  • Hi there. Long-time CMW player. Here are my thoughts on the ninja class and what should be done.

    The ninja doesn’t feel agile or deadly enough. The roll is a really cool idea, but you don’t carry any momentum when you do it forward or backward, and attacking out of a roll (in any direction) causes an awkward stop in movement. This is horrible and diminishes the utility of the roll greatly. Need to be able to roll and attack fluidly without stopping.

    Ninja’s stamina drain is too much. IMO they should have a passive ability where they can regen stamina while sprinting, but it’s much slower than if they walked.

    Ninja a little too slow… give him a tiny bit more movement speed.

    Ninja can’t jump high enough. Little bigger jump to vault up onto ledges.

    And finally, the ninja should be able to roll immediately after jumping from above and hitting the ground to conserve momentum and avoid attacks. Right now they can’t. Maybe look into letting them do flips by jumping and rolling at the same time. Maybe if they do an overhead out of this attack it’ll do a crapload of damage?

    Shuriken should be equippable like firepot from CMW.

    Slightly increase spammability of shuriken.

    Slightly increase dmg of most weapon attacks or slightly nerf armor of samurai & knight so that ninjas don’t have to hit them 8 times when they can die in 1 or 2.

    Increase smoke pot area of effect and duration.

    I think ninjas should remain fragile, as they are, but their survivability is bad when their speed, agility and freedom of movement are all just average. The roll is not enough of a saving grace at the moment.

    The roll hitbox might also need to be tweaked as I’ve literally rolled out of the way of a Spartan’s spear stab, and after he missed the stab, he just jerked the spear to hit me while I was rolling right before the recovery animation on his attack went into effect.

    In other words he missed the actual stab but exploited the active attack frames to just SWING the stabbing spear at me while I was rolling.

    This kind of thing needs to be addressed.

    Ninja has a lot of potential and are a lot of fun to play, but they need to be strengthened a bit so that they actually stand out as a unique class and don’t crumple so easily. Right now in a 1v1 fight versus most other classes, they simply don’t have the damage output or health pool to consistently come out on top, because their one saving grace, their agility, is just not there. Ninja roll feels like a fun gimmick but nothing more, at the moment.

    Regards,

    ZR



  • I would leave the shuriken alone, having to parry too much will be a pain, esp in group fights. Idk about the flips, but jumping higher would be nice. I agree with everyting else, roll momentum, roll hitbox and more stamina. Very good.



  • Everything what OP said is true. The ninja is really weak and there are alot of things that needs to be buffed up.



  • I think one thing that must be addressed BIG time is the roll.
    Here is the good things about the roll.
    I know its useful for rolling to the sides if the enemy goes for an overhead or a stab, but also because when you roll you also lower your hitbox, you can roll swings to…
    I think thats what they wanted.
    The MAA dodge was/is considered overpowered by many because it has a lot of range. but you cant dodge out of swings because the enemy will hit you if he drags his mouse to the direction you sidedodged.But here is the problem with the roll now:
    First the enemy can just swing and drag going for the legs so you cant roll out of their swings.
    Second you cant roll backwards because the range is so short that any kind of attack will hit you.
    And last : i know about the drag thingy that most big weapon users do is less useful cause of the change of how the damage is calculated now.
    Its quite a good change so that everyone will do less drags with the mouse, But Ninjas still die in two swings because of their low armor.
    So i feel that for a Ninja these changes to damage calculation is like nothing changed.
    The enemy will just swing for my legs and the only thing that i can do is block.
    Because i cant roll to the side for swing going for my legs and i cant roll backwards because of the low range of the roll.
    So yeah. Roll is useless.



  • @ZombieRommel:

    I think ninjas should remain fragile, as they are, but their survivability is bad when their speed, agility and freedom of movement are all just average. The roll is not enough of a saving grace at the moment.

    ^ This ^
    I’ve been trying to convey this throughout a few threads now. The Ninja is just to slow and un-agile for a class that is supposed to be a skirmisher. Keep our damage low (it feels ok for a skirmishing class) and keep the range low, but for the love of GOD give us some more speed!

    I know people would complain about chase mechanics, but c’mon! How is a fully armored Knight and Samurai basically just as fast as the almost unarmored Ninja and Pirate? How do those same heavily armored classes maneuver in CQC at basically the same speed as the lighter classes?

    It comes down to “balance” I suppose. I don’t think making the Ninja run and maneuver in CQC faster is going to destroy the balance of the game, but rather add more reward to an already very tough class to play. However, the Devs are the ones who are making the game, so they know best :P

    -Q



  • More strafe and reverse speed will be good. Forward speed is unneeded.



  • @ZombieRommel:

    The ninja doesn’t feel agile or deadly enough. The roll is a really cool idea, but you don’t carry any momentum when you do it forward or backward, and attacking out of a roll (in any direction) causes an awkward stop in movement. This is horrible and diminishes the utility of the roll greatly. Need to be able to roll and attack fluidly without stopping.

    This. This is currently the biggest issue I have with the Ninja. Almost diminishes the entire advantage as playing as one.

    @ZombieRommel:

    Ninja a little too slow… give him a tiny bit more movement speed.

    As long as it isn’t very noticeable, this could work. I think they should focus on fixing the roll before changing the movement speed.

    @ZombieRommel:

    Increase smoke pot area of effect and duration.

    Wouldn’t hurt.

    @ZombieRommel:

    I think ninjas should remain fragile, as they are, but their survivability is bad when their speed, agility and freedom of movement are all just average. The roll is not enough of a saving grace at the moment.

    As it is now, yes.

    The rest of your points, I don’t agree with them. I think that TBS should just focus on making the roll useful and fixing the kick (as I stated in another thread) before making any drastic changes to the Ninja.



  • @ZombieRommel:

    and attacking out of a roll (in any direction) causes an awkward stop in movement.

    I’m wondering if this is intentional or not
    for MAA the dodge was a great way to evade an attack and put yourself into a position to attack back at the same time, a lot of people hated it and TB did a lot to gimp this maneuver



  • @BB:

    @ZombieRommel:

    and attacking out of a roll (in any direction) causes an awkward stop in movement.

    I’m wondering if this is intentional or not
    for MAA the dodge was a great way to evade an attack and put yourself into a position to attack back at the same time, a lot of people hated it and TB did a lot to gimp this maneuver

    Yeah, I’ve also been thinking the stop might be intentional. In either case, I really think it should be “fixed”. Ninjas are weak enough as it is.

    Btw, I’ve found a pesky bug with the Ninja. If you’re struck during the Shuriken-throw animation, you will suddenly become disarmed. (Weapon will be switched to fists) What’s hilarious is how fluently it happens. I never notice until my opponent lands his second strike that I try to block with my exposed hands.



  • @B4RK:

    @BB:

    @ZombieRommel:

    and attacking out of a roll (in any direction) causes an awkward stop in movement.

    I’m wondering if this is intentional or not
    for MAA the dodge was a great way to evade an attack and put yourself into a position to attack back at the same time, a lot of people hated it and TB did a lot to gimp this maneuver

    Yeah, I’ve also been thinking the stop might be intentional. In either case, I really think it should be “fixed”. Ninjas are weak enough as it is.

    Btw, I’ve found a pesky bug with the Ninja. If you’re struck during the Shuriken-throw animation, you will suddenly become disarmed. (Weapon will be switched to fists) What’s hilarious is how fluently it happens. I never notice until my opponent lands his second strike that I try to block with my exposed hands.

    Yup, I thought it was just a random occurrence, but I suppose that if you’ve had it happen it’s legit :P



  • I Honestly don’t want the ninja to be a skirmisher or 1v1 specialist, like MAA was.
    I want the class to be horrid in fights, it shouldn’t win a 1v1, the player SHOULD be punished for playing a stealthy class wrong, and attacking from the front. I would love the ninja to be a unique stealth class and not just another easy to play MAA, being spammed in duels and what not.
    I would honestly suggest reducing the amount of damage ninjas do up front, and add some kind of backstab damage, or high damage stealth hit; something to really blatantly tell people this is NOT a re-adaptation of MAA, but it’s own unique stealth based class.



  • @Aim392:

    I want the class to be horrid in fights, it shouldn’t win a 1v1

    Now this is the kind of bullshit mindset that holds the game back. Of course a player playing Ninja should be able to win a 1v1. He should also be able to win a 1v2, 1v3 or maybe even a 1v4 if he’s good enough. Of course, this should apply to all the classes.
    Please stop regarding the game results as if they were class-based rather than player-based. You’re not the first one I’ve seen write a post like this.



  • Higher jumps + pull up their legs when jumping.



  • smoke bombs need to get looked at
    other than that Ninja da bes



  • @Aim392:

    I Honestly don’t want the ninja to be a skirmisher or 1v1 specialist, like MAA was.
    I want the class to be horrid in fights, it shouldn’t win a 1v1, the player SHOULD be punished for playing a stealthy class wrong, and attacking from the front. I would love the ninja to be a unique stealth class and not just another easy to play MAA, being spammed in duels and what not.
    I would honestly suggest reducing the amount of damage ninjas do up front, and add some kind of backstab damage, or high damage stealth hit; something to really blatantly tell people this is NOT a re-adaptation of MAA, but it’s own unique stealth based class.

    Can we please scrap the idea that stealth is an advantage for the ninja alone?



  • Give the Ninjas some kind of double jump or somersault (flip) to jump over enemies, obstacles and have the ability to reach higher areas like roofs.
    The somersault could be performed by pressing jump and then one-button-dodge.

    Give the Ninjas climbing spikes and some areas where the ninjas can climb walls with them.

    Thx 4 reading.


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