Bringing improvements from DW back to MW



  • Hey guys, I was just wondering if there’s any information (from devs or otherwise) on whether bugfixes and tweaks in the Deadliest Warrior expansion may percolate back into the base game?

    One I’m especially interested in seeing would be the new damage tracing system, as seen here:
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    Personally (and speaking as a frequent user of techniques this directly effects), I’d love to see this brought into the base game as it’d encourage more precision when attacking, more dynamics in terms of footwork to maintain optimal distances, nerfs the damage output (lowered by ~30% or so, was it?) of things like instant overheads and the trailing end snags I love to (ab)use with the zweihander, all the while maintaining the exact same swinging mechanics and controls, such that everything still works as expected for people who haven’t discovered the nuances it would add



  • There is no improvements in DM over MW, it actually worse there.
    Tracer system is such a bad idea, it takes the skill you got and throws it away. You can’t even score good dmg by dragging cause of it and any decent player will block your attempt to hit them head on. It makes game just easy for everyone. I had to fight 4 spartans there and had to hit each 4 times to kill them with nodachi, the op nodachi. I killed half of them but then died. In MW I would likely to be able to win that fight and not cause I would copter my way through it.
    This game now is the skill based and competition driven while DW is fun hack and slash or arcade version would be another popular name for it.



  • Not going to lie, the tracer sweet spot sounds like a good idea, and for a while it was, but it completely screwed dragging. I know there are people out there who think swing manipulation is an exploit, but for a game that advertises it as a basic intended mechanic, the sweet spot is really screwing the pooch. Aiming for the middle of your swing is not hard. Having it land on someone who spent 5 minutes parrying is.



  • Surely even just landing a hit (say, easier through some neat dragging), even for less damage, is still a viable reason to use drags or super accelerated swings? For MW, it might make sense to dial the damage nerf down a little because the damage falloff is not something the game has been built with in mind.



  • It’s not. The only thing I can agee with is making it do less dmg at overhead release to nerf lookdowns. If dragging did less dmg, I would need to hit knight like 4-5 times with great sword to kill one or 3-4 times to kill maa. While any one handed that does not need to drag as much could land full dmg easier and kill you even faster than two handed and in less hits. Also fighting several people at the time would be even harder.



  • The only reason I’d like to see the tracer sweet spot stuff come in to MW is to try and stop those lol players that run around looking down all the time. It also rewards people for landing good hits when using excellent footwork. In other words it ads complexity in a good way.



  • @Sciffer:

    It’s not. The only thing I can agee with is making it do less dmg at overhead release to nerf lookdowns. If dragging did less dmg, I would need to hit knight like 4-5 times with great sword to kill one or 3-4 times to kill maa. While any one handed that does not need to drag as much could land full dmg easier and kill you even faster than two handed and in less hits. Also fighting several people at the time would be even harder.

    Yknow thinking about it, this would actually give that tanky feel the knight doesn’t have currently. 1 extra hit isn’t all that great, but 2 or 3? Pfff. Sounds tanky to me, but this would change the game too much. Maybe. Maybe everyone will go knight again.



  • @omg87:

    @Sciffer:

    It’s not. The only thing I can agee with is making it do less dmg at overhead release to nerf lookdowns. If dragging did less dmg, I would need to hit knight like 4-5 times with great sword to kill one or 3-4 times to kill maa. While any one handed that does not need to drag as much could land full dmg easier and kill you even faster than two handed and in less hits. Also fighting several people at the time would be even harder.

    Yknow thinking about it, this would actually give that tanky feel the knight doesn’t have currently. 1 extra hit isn’t all that great, but 2 or 3? Pfff. Sounds tanky to me, but this would change the game too much. Maybe. Maybe everyone will go knight again.

    Or you know, they could just give the Knight back his old swords and keep the Messer how it is.



  • I have never liked dragging. I also have never thought it was an exploit as it is a valid tactic. However, physics dictates that dragging would not do 100% damage. In fact it would do far less in real time. Think of it like this. When you swing at a baseball, the max amount of force is in the middle of the swing. If you drag your swing it becomes a bunt or a foul. If you swing too early it is a foul to the right, still a fraction of the damage, and if you swing too late you get a foul to the left also a fraction of the power of the swing.

    Dragging is still a vaild tactic in combat, it is just not getting a cheap 100% damage. If you honestly think about it, it makes sense and is a valid change in the combat system.



  • They’re not improvements, it’s making game easier for casuals and new players.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    They’re not improvements, it’s making game easier for casuals and new players.

    +1

    There was absolutely no need to nerf drags especially considering the already fast movement speed.



  • @Karasu:

    @rumpelstiltskin:

    They’re not improvements, it’s making game easier for casuals and new players.

    +1

    There was absolutely no need to nerf drags especially considering the already fast movement speed.

    They are not nerfing drags… ugh they are still there. You are just not going to get a cheap 100% damage through out the entire swing. This is logical and far more realistic on all sides, providing they can actually program it correctly. This should actually increase the skill level in knowing how when and where to maximize swing potential damage. Drags just dumb it down because the feint, flinch and parrys are broken.



  • @Retsnom:

    @Karasu:

    @rumpelstiltskin:

    They’re not improvements, it’s making game easier for casuals and new players.

    +1

    There was absolutely no need to nerf drags especially considering the already fast movement speed.

    They are not nerfing drags… ugh they are still there. You are just not going to get a cheap 100% damage through out the entire swing. This is logical and far more realistic on all sides, providing they can actually program it correctly. This should actually increase the skill level in knowing how when and where to maximize swing potential damage. Drags just dumb it down because the feint, flinch and parrys are broken.

    Stopped reading at realistic.



  • drags are still pretty fine in DW… i thought they sucked at first… and they REALLY do with certain weapons. There are tons of weapons though that have amazing drag ability… just gotta find out which ones they are by looking at the tracers ;)

    i know i have… and i drag for DAYZZZ.

    the sweet spot on a lot of tracers make absolutely no sense. I’d like to see DW in it’s release form to know whether i’d want ANY of the changes in MW. MW is totally whack nowadays though too.



  • How could anyone honestly claim that 100% damage throughout the swing is a fair thing? This is one mechanic I have always thought was super cheap. Not an exploit by any means but 100% damage? That is as silly as archers getting back stab bonus. Look if you get a good drag you are still rewarded with damage making the skill ceiling higher because fights should last longer between skilled players and forcing players to find the sweet spots and manipulating them instead of expectations of a cheap easy kill.

    I thought a higher skill ceiling is what everyone is bitching for. 100% drags are not high on the skill ceiling specially with the client side hit detection and a super shitty netcode. It is just cheap. If you love dragging but hate the feint you are a complete hypocrite because they both suffer from the same problems. The same is true with only having only one parry and it not being holdable. But I am sure I am beating a dead horse with most of you that have become dependent upon drags. UGH, I use them and I use the feint and the parry, all are broken in CMW mostly because of the bubble and their animations. I really see nothing wrong with raising the bar. 100% drag damage dumbs it down.



  • @Retsnom:

    How could anyone honestly claim that 100% damage throughout the swing is a fair thing? This is one mechanic I have always thought was super cheap. Not an exploit by any means but 100% damage? That is as silly as archers getting back stab bonus. Look if you get a good drag you are still rewarded with damage making the skill ceiling higher because fights should last longer between skilled players and forcing players to find the sweet spots and manipulating them instead of expectations of a cheap easy kill.

    I thought a higher skill ceiling is what everyone is bitching for. 100% drags are not high on the skill ceiling specially with the client side hit detection and a super shitty netcode. It is just cheap. If you love dragging but hate the feint you are a complete hypocrite because they both suffer from the same problems. The same is true with only having only one parry and it not being holdable. But I am sure I am beating a dead horse with most of you that have become dependent upon drags. UGH, I use them and I use the feint and the parry, all are broken in CMW mostly because of the bubble and their animations. I really see nothing wrong with raising the bar. 100% drag damage dumbs it down.

    Because drags are quite easy to block and counter. They’re consistently countered in the current competitive scene. Nobody with a lot of experience has very much difficulty with them. So if I do pull off a successful drag then I should be rewarded for it. If I’m not, then I’ll just feint instead to get max damage. No reason to drag and get minimal damage when you can feint and get max damage.



  • @Retsnom:

    They are not nerfing drags… ugh they are still there. You are just not going to get a cheap 100% damage through out the entire swing. This is logical and far more realistic on all sides, providing they can actually program it correctly. This should actually increase the skill level in knowing how when and where to maximize swing potential damage. Drags just dumb it down because the feint, flinch and parrys are broken.

    What’s the point of having real time strikes with sweetspot mechanic?



  • WHERE the most damage is for the ‘sweet spot’ doesn’t make sense for many weapons and it’s not consistent. Take a look at the longsword tracers and tell me it makes sense. ( please don’t change it though tb, i like it just the way it is ;) )

    plenty of other weapons where the sweet spot spot doesn’t make sense that it’s where the weapon swing does the most damage.

    one thing about DW though, aggression is punished and defense is rewarded. Just wait for your opponent to miss for free hits. Even if you’re out of stamina, you can continue to keep parrying, which is fine by me because i hate stun lock plz kill me mode. But defense is certainly rewarded due to simply being able to just use range to kill opponents. BRING BACK CFTP! will be hard enough to pull off CFtP to keep the skill in, because feint windows are so short.

    NO TO COMBO/RECOVERY PARRY PLEASE GOD!



  • Have to bear in mind as well, the ‘optimal’ range could be extended, or the damage falloff reduced, to better suit MW’s weapons

    @rumpelstiltskin:

    They’re not improvements, it’s making game easier for casuals and new players.

    I’m interested to know how this’d lower the skill ceiling - all I’m seeing is it adding the need for proper distancing and footwork to maintain it for optimal damage, for those who know about it. surely it’d simply punish new players who don’t know



  • I, for one, agree with Retsnom on this matter. I don’t see why everyone is so hostile about the tracer mechanic; it seems like logical thought is abandoned out of fear your toys / experience is being taken away, when a bit of reading comprehension would reveal that this is not so.

    100% drags are a retarded concept; there are phases to a swing, each carrying different levels of force which translate into different levels of lethality. It being “easy to counter by experienced players” is not a valid argument (and I doubt it’s as easy as you all make it sound. Indeed, I very much think dragging is everything “good” people do, because what else is there, right?) as to why the 100% damage drag should be in the game. It looks retarded and so far removed from reality it makes me cringe.

    Have you played this game for so long you base your ego around being good at it, and now fear any change to a game mechanic will make said ego crumble as a result? Because it certainly sounds that way.


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