Bringing improvements from DW back to MW



  • @Retsnom:

    How could anyone honestly claim that 100% damage throughout the swing is a fair thing? This is one mechanic I have always thought was super cheap. Not an exploit by any means but 100% damage? That is as silly as archers getting back stab bonus. Look if you get a good drag you are still rewarded with damage making the skill ceiling higher because fights should last longer between skilled players and forcing players to find the sweet spots and manipulating them instead of expectations of a cheap easy kill.

    I thought a higher skill ceiling is what everyone is bitching for. 100% drags are not high on the skill ceiling specially with the client side hit detection and a super shitty netcode. It is just cheap. If you love dragging but hate the feint you are a complete hypocrite because they both suffer from the same problems. The same is true with only having only one parry and it not being holdable. But I am sure I am beating a dead horse with most of you that have become dependent upon drags. UGH, I use them and I use the feint and the parry, all are broken in CMW mostly because of the bubble and their animations. I really see nothing wrong with raising the bar. 100% drag damage dumbs it down.

    Because drags are quite easy to block and counter. They’re consistently countered in the current competitive scene. Nobody with a lot of experience has very much difficulty with them. So if I do pull off a successful drag then I should be rewarded for it. If I’m not, then I’ll just feint instead to get max damage. No reason to drag and get minimal damage when you can feint and get max damage.



  • @Retsnom:

    They are not nerfing drags… ugh they are still there. You are just not going to get a cheap 100% damage through out the entire swing. This is logical and far more realistic on all sides, providing they can actually program it correctly. This should actually increase the skill level in knowing how when and where to maximize swing potential damage. Drags just dumb it down because the feint, flinch and parrys are broken.

    What’s the point of having real time strikes with sweetspot mechanic?



  • WHERE the most damage is for the ‘sweet spot’ doesn’t make sense for many weapons and it’s not consistent. Take a look at the longsword tracers and tell me it makes sense. ( please don’t change it though tb, i like it just the way it is ;) )

    plenty of other weapons where the sweet spot spot doesn’t make sense that it’s where the weapon swing does the most damage.

    one thing about DW though, aggression is punished and defense is rewarded. Just wait for your opponent to miss for free hits. Even if you’re out of stamina, you can continue to keep parrying, which is fine by me because i hate stun lock plz kill me mode. But defense is certainly rewarded due to simply being able to just use range to kill opponents. BRING BACK CFTP! will be hard enough to pull off CFtP to keep the skill in, because feint windows are so short.

    NO TO COMBO/RECOVERY PARRY PLEASE GOD!



  • Have to bear in mind as well, the ‘optimal’ range could be extended, or the damage falloff reduced, to better suit MW’s weapons

    @rumpelstiltskin:

    They’re not improvements, it’s making game easier for casuals and new players.

    I’m interested to know how this’d lower the skill ceiling - all I’m seeing is it adding the need for proper distancing and footwork to maintain it for optimal damage, for those who know about it. surely it’d simply punish new players who don’t know



  • I, for one, agree with Retsnom on this matter. I don’t see why everyone is so hostile about the tracer mechanic; it seems like logical thought is abandoned out of fear your toys / experience is being taken away, when a bit of reading comprehension would reveal that this is not so.

    100% drags are a retarded concept; there are phases to a swing, each carrying different levels of force which translate into different levels of lethality. It being “easy to counter by experienced players” is not a valid argument (and I doubt it’s as easy as you all make it sound. Indeed, I very much think dragging is everything “good” people do, because what else is there, right?) as to why the 100% damage drag should be in the game. It looks retarded and so far removed from reality it makes me cringe.

    Have you played this game for so long you base your ego around being good at it, and now fear any change to a game mechanic will make said ego crumble as a result? Because it certainly sounds that way.



  • While I do dislike the new content, I see some features and big improvements that I would love to see into the manly game they made, though perhaps these stuff should only be featured in possibly cmw2, so that people who wish to play it the old way, with no penalty on accelerations or delay and ect, could remain on mw, or they could implant it, and people who doesn’t want it can just make a mod without it.

    Now, the sweet spot system is a good way of least nerfing accelerations / delays to the point where they will still be useful, but at a certain cost, and that is of having less damage dealt, though I think that the damage difference between blue, green and red tracer should be solid numbers. between the start of blue tracer, and the its end, the damage varies. only red has a 100% solid damage that doesn’t change. I think it would be better if we had solid numbers for each different spots on our attack trace so that it wouldn’t be too much affected, also the blue tracer damage is a little bit too low, should be slightly higher than what the DW one currently has.

    Also I’m in love with the new type of special daze / daze, now you can either only catch your opponent off guard with a free hit by comboing once they parry without enough stamina for it, or that you kick their shields with a dazing kick. If you snooze for a brief moment, you will lose your opportunity for a free hit, which means you have to anticipated or react in time in order to take advantage of that. in Medieval Warfare, you might aswell take a quick coffee break before coming back to your opponent and still enjoy your free-hit on them since its so long. 1.5 seconds was a more ideal time, as you would lose the opportunity most of the time if you didn’t pay attention.

    Run kicks are always good, love those.

    And of course being able to parry throwables is good, they should consider to add javelins to that list, though make the projectile parry window muuuch shorter so that it really has to be timed.

    That’s what I think they should bring to MW from Dw, with slight modification.



  • people say you CAN parry the javs… but i haven’t been able to do it yet. I either make them miss or shield block or take 90+ damage.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    WHERE the most damage is for the ‘sweet spot’ doesn’t make sense for many weapons and it’s not consistent. Take a look at the longsword tracers and tell me it makes sense. ( please don’t change it though tb, i like it just the way it is ;) )

    plenty of other weapons where the sweet spot spot doesn’t make sense that it’s where the weapon swing does the most damage.

    one thing about DW though, aggression is punished and defense is rewarded. Just wait for your opponent to miss for free hits. Even if you’re out of stamina, you can continue to keep parrying, which is fine by me because i hate stun lock plz kill me mode. But defense is certainly rewarded due to simply being able to just use range to kill opponents. BRING BACK CFTP! will be hard enough to pull off CFtP to keep the skill in, because feint windows are so short.

    NO TO COMBO/RECOVERY PARRY PLEASE GOD!

    I never said that they could pull it off correctly but again the reduction at the end of a swing is still 50% correct? This will add another dimension to the game. Finding and using the sweet spot is far more skill intensive than to just look the other way. It is quite clear that too many are worried about a cheese dick reward for slowing down their swing than actually increasing the skill ceiling. UGH.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    people say you CAN parry the javs… but i haven’t been able to do it yet. I either make them miss or shield block or take 90+ damage.

    They probably meant blocking not parrying.



  • its funny how all the exploiters are crying. i love this idea.



  • haha the tracer system is actually good



  • @azual:

    haha the tracer system is actually good

    Concept is good but current results are horrible.



  • Its definitely an improvement as it does result in strikes dealing less damage when they should deal less damage. Accelerated and delayed swings will still be useful but not as strong as before. It also opens opportunities for a lot of other interesting tactics and might even emphasize good footwork (if the bubble got fixed until then). It might also reduce the tendency of facehugging with long weapons as you are likely to hit with the blue tracer.

    A problem I see is the interaction with the current panic parry system: As you are able to parry during strike recovery it can be very hard to actually hit with your red tracers and the result is overall damage going down to ~75% with the occasional punishing 100% if somebody screws up his defense or the attacker scoring a very skilled hit.

    The whole thing does not make the game easier to play at all - but easier to understand as weapon behavior is more realistic. Casuals and new players won’t be better with this (they might even have a harder time as their effective damage was reduced) but they won’t feel as abused anymore.

    Regarding solid number in each area: No - this would only cause strange behavior at the borders of said areas and two seemingly identical strikes could do very different amounts of damage. (Almost) continuous damage increase does not cause this kind of issue making it better for practical play even if it somewhat hurts theorycrafting.



  • @wildwulfy:

    […] though I think that the damage difference between blue, green and red tracer should be solid numbers […] also the blue tracer damage is a little bit too low

    Yes the idea is good, instant attacks and delays come with a cost. I agree that there should be no difference inbetween the tracer of one color and that blue tracer damage should be higher. Only hitting with blue tracers should lead to a maximum of two more hits to kill the enemy. The current implementation in DW is not enjoyable, imo.

    @wildwulfy:

    Also I’m in love with the new type of special daze / daze, now you can either only catch your opponent off guard with a free hit by comboing once they parry without enough stamina for it

    I haven’t played enough yet, so starting a combo when the enemy parried is not in my system yet. But yeah the 5 hour daze in CMW is tedious.

    @wildwulfy:

    And of course being able to parry throwables is good, they should consider to add javelins to that list, though make the projectile parry window muuuch shorter so that it really has to be timed.

    Oh yes!



  • Red green and blue tracers aren’t solid numbers not in DW.

    Red is 100%
    Green is 75-99%
    Blue is 50-74%.

    The closer to the red tracer you are the more damage you do pretty much.



  • The bubble was significantly reduced in DW, almost to where it was originally pre-patch I think.

    Yeah, I think the combat system from DW should be brought into MW as well as some weapon combinations: spear and shield like the spartans and knight with heater shield.



  • Reduced by 50%. Could be a significant amount. Depends if you see the cup as half full or half empty.



  • @lemonater47:

    Reduced by 50%. Could be a significant amount. Depends if you see the cup as half full or half empty.

    I see it as half assed. There is no need for an increase of the default collision bubble of the player model of the base game engine that skill and experience could not overcome. The negative side effects of an enlarged bubble are higher in number than any benefit that it is supposed to have.



  • The “bubble” was the worst thing that every happened to Chiv I think. It’s the reason why hit and block detection went to crap. How many times have you seen your weapon go through your enemy but do no damage? I see every time I play, and more than once.



  • @gref:

    The “bubble” was the worst thing that every happened to Chiv I think.

    True. It didn’t really solve any issues while making the gameplay clumsy. Though still not as clumsy as any rival game*. :-D Having it reduced to 50% should solve at least half the problem.@gref:

    It’s the reason why hit and block detection went to crap.

    Are you sure about that? I mean - the bubble is crap but that doesn’t mean its the root of all problems. Hitting and blocking did suffer because people bounce of the bubble. This can change the direction of strikes and parries because it either causes unwanted footwork or prevents wanted footwork from happening. So it might cause the near-hit-still miss stabs Retsnom is complaining about but those ghost-strikes are probably an issue on its own.

    *Someone should stress that a major positive of Chivalry was its unclumsiness and this does still apply - relative to other games than the pre-June Chivalry.


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