Balance is a joke in this game.



  • Seriously it is not in 3 areas: between classes, between weapons and between attacking side and defending side in TO.

    But at the beginning, game mechanics needs in polishing.
    Panic parry, dodge and stun. It is circle of stupid things. Do we need in they? They do not make game more diverse.

    And of course feints. They are effective versus all. I think mouse dragging and size of bubble which was before “big balancing patch” will be better than mouse dragging, feints and bubble now.

    Also i feel a lot of hittrades, and it is boring.



  • the imbalance is all weapons/classes. This is what generates the imbalance in TO… and the main imbalance in EVERY TO is archers. More archers defending = more imbalance to TO beause every 5 feet you move some kind of projectile is nailing you doing all of your health in damage and then you’re basically screwed.



  • A lot of hit trades in CMW? Try CDW.



  • @clayton-bigsby:

    the imbalance is all weapons/classes. This is what generates the imbalance in TO… and the main imbalance in EVERY TO is archers. More archers defending = more imbalance to TO beause every 5 feet you move some kind of projectile is nailing you doing all of your health in damage and then you’re basically screwed.

    Try shields and smoke. At range its almost impossible to shoot around your shields. Its more of a fluke than skill of it happens. And throwing smoke at archers is also effective. Better than throwing it at your feat usually. If the archers are on walls they usually can’t move anywhere to have another go at you.

    Or throw smoke on the ram on stoneshill. You can just walk past everyone and use the ram without anyone knowing where you are. Many don’t even use sounds to realise that their gate is being rammed.

    Smoke where you stand on the trebuchets also gives you some time. Archers either miss you all the times or don’t even try and fire.

    Too many archers means you can get a lot closer usually. There’s no melee fighters slowing you down. Though most of your team will be overly cocky and get murdered in melee.

    We tried a whole archer team once. Didn’t work.



  • Smoke is only reducing the probability of being hit and also affects your own teams vision. Shields work but they really gimp you in close combat (and switching costs time) - so most people decide not to use them or leave them on their backs. If shields would be useful in close combat more people would use them greatly reducing Archer dominance (even now a smart team picks shields when facing lots of Archers).

    @Artemius:

    Seriously it is not in 3 areas: between classes, between weapons and between attacking side and defending side in TO.

    Its due to the extremely long patch cycles. If you count the number of balance patches and look at the game balance its not bad at all (still far from perfect). On the other side the game is out about one year and has a state of balance only a little better than a reasles game. Another factor are too big changes (as seen in combat mechanics, shields or for the TO map Hillside) that just move things to the other side of the spectrum (too strong to too weak and vice versa) without improving game balance (1+1 is not one and 1-1 isn’t one either).

    @Artemius:

    But at the beginning, game mechanics needs in polishing.

    I agree with this - especially when talking hitboxes (thanks at Retnom for providing pictures). Dodge is a offender here - sometimes a MaA dodges and still gets hit, sometimes he should have been hit but isn’t.

    Feints are not that much of an urgent problem as the unfeintable window fixed most issues. If more realism is wanted one could make it possible to combo parry>attack similar to riposte. The DW strike system would be a way to deal with dragging (without making it useless) and for the bubble - remove/reduce it.

    To get rid of the hittrading meta the bubble and combo parry have to dissappear and panic parry/CFtP should be tweaked (just move the “no-parry window” after release and make its length depend on recovery time). Furthermore people need more stamina - not more regeneration just a bigger pool to avoid running dry as fast while still disencouraging “move spam”. And finally the punishment for running dry should be less frustrating - replace the stun with a (percental) damage effect and maybe a short stagger (or just a flinch).



  • That’s why I said throw the smoke at their archers not at the ground between you and the archers.



  • Having several archers versus you on a public team objective map is not really an imbalance, just problem with that there is no limitation, however as mentioned above. It is very easy to evade all these projectiles by either using Shield, Smoke pot or always keeping an eye on them and try to swap direction just as you believe they are about to fire.

    As for when it comes to competitive scene, having just an army of Archers won’t really do well, cause at one point they have to meet the pushing melee force, which will pretty much run down the Archers, unless they have managed to wound them enough to take on them, but 50% class limitation rule kicks in so it is not possible to play a team with just Archers.

    Weapon balance in this game is somewhat fine with the exception of a couple of weapons.



  • @wildwulfy:


    Weapon balance in this game is somewhat fine with the exception of a couple of weapons.

    YES!!! :O
    The polehammer needs to have its stamina damage un-nurfed!!! its so frustrating having a blunt pole arm do no stamina damage.



  • remove the 12 foot spamguard swords, they are the only op thing in the game right now, and are by far the most skilless weapons on the face of the earth, and besides no spamguard in history ever even used a dumb zweihander anyway, a 6ft 6 fool running around with a 12 foot swords really looks dumb anyway and is for nubs, let alone how ridicolous it makes the designers look when he walks through a doorway but yet his swords goes up past the header like 6 feet, yet he goes right through, like really thats retarted.



  • LOL guess we all have different opinions on what is OP or not.

    For me it’s skilled Man at Arms. Just find an LTS server(preferable in Arena) with more than 1 skilled MAA working together.
    Unbeatable, unless you go MAA yourself in which case you have the most luck, even if you suck at MAA.



  • “And of course feints. They are effective versus all.”

    They are pretty shit against shields actually…

    However if you MUST cry about not want to use shields feints can easily be ‘fixed’ by doing this:

    A feinted attack should do LESS damage. So the choice is to go for the hit, or choose to feint->attack for less damage but higher chance to hit. The exact amount of less damage to do is complicated by the idea that each weapon has a ‘Hits to kill’ aspect to them. Simply put, adding in the option that feints do less damage means going through each weapon individually changing how much less damage they do to make sure they need at least 1 more HTK after a feint. This also allows a new weapon aspect to help with balancing, yes that Longsword is kind of average, but it has a quirk, the feint doesn’t cost a HTK … Beware of Knights wielding the Longsword, they are probably feinters…

    Anyway you get the idea.



  • Feints are fine. People need to just learn to read them and learn to feint to parry. Pretty easy with a few hours of practice.



  • Beware of Knights wielding the Longsword, they are probably feinters…

    Lol. I am one of them. But i do not use only feints. Also you have less chance to win vanguard by knight without feints, because it is hard to evade block by stabs and overheads or backswings, if you do not have enough length of weapon and speed of feet all time, when vanguard can easy strafe back, left or right and blocks your attacks.

    Feints are fine. People need to just learn to read them and learn to feint to parry. Pretty easy with a few hours of practice.

    Of course it is easy to block feinted attack if opponent do it for 3-5 meters front of you. But nobody can block sudden feints. In my practice the most effective feint is stab-feint-overhead. And it was blocked in some happenings, when i do too fast feint with one-handed .



  • @Artemius:

    Seriously it is not in 3 areas: between classes, between weapons

    Ok so which class+weapon is obviously overpowered?



  • A matter of taste whether OP or not but archers are a lil too good at everything.



  • @Artemius:

    Of course it is easy to block feinted attack if opponent do it for 3-5 meters front of you. But nobody can block sudden feints. In my practice the most effective feint is stab-feint-overhead. And it was blocked in some happenings, when i do too fast feint with one-handed .

    I can read point blank stab feints, so can any high-level player. It’s not about reading the feint on the spot (which is pretty easy to do as well). It’s about predicting the feint ahead of time. If my opponent is facehugging me, and I know he feints, I can predict he will feint. So I immediately do a lookdown overhead to either force a hit trade, or if he feints, I get a free hit with no damage taken.

    It’s all about patterns and mind games. Like I’ve said before in another post, grab a friend and just do feint duels for a few hours. Practicing against feints and with them is the best way to defeat them. Also learning to feint to parry is a great skill to have as well, and works wonders against people who feint.



  • I had an MaA who was using a shield today pissed off at me for using a feint. I facepalmed.

    That said, the key is to not get yourself in a situation where someone is in your face with the ability to feint you. Once you are on your heels it puts you at a huge feint disadvantage. I have no problem with this.



  • One thing I never see mentioned to counter archers:

    Another good archer on your team (esp for TO) to neutralize their archers. Whenever my team is getting dominated by projectiles, I switch up to archer w/appropriate arrows, and go slaughter the 3-4 archers on the opposing teams side a few rounds in a row, that usually gives my team enough time to get to where they need to be to deal with the archers themselves. And even if I don’t get all of the enemy’s teams archers dead in one go, I usually distract them enough to allow our MAA’s to close ranks and destroy them. It’s all about team work. Best counter to archers, is archers ;-)



  • @Toll:

    “And of course feints. They are effective versus all.”

    They are pretty shit against shields actually…

    However if you MUST cry about not want to use shields feints can easily be ‘fixed’ by doing this:

    A feinted attack should do LESS damage. So the choice is to go for the hit, or choose to feint->attack for less damage but higher chance to hit. The exact amount of less damage to do is complicated by the idea that each weapon has a ‘Hits to kill’ aspect to them. Simply put, adding in the option that feints do less damage means going through each weapon individually changing how much less damage they do to make sure they need at least 1 more HTK after a feint. This also allows a new weapon aspect to help with balancing, yes that Longsword is kind of average, but it has a quirk, the feint doesn’t cost a HTK … Beware of Knights wielding the Longsword, they are probably feinters…

    Anyway you get the idea.

    And shields are mediocre at best.
    Actually, they are a pile of shit.

    So theres always that. And by the way, do a stab feint and then heavy kick against a shield user. Sooner or later they will not drop their shield fast enough and get stunned = free win.

    Shields suck really hard btw



  • @Pungvarg:

    And shields are mediocre at best.
    Actually, they are a pile of shit.

    So theres always that. And by the way, do a stab feint and then heavy kick against a shield user. Sooner or later they will not drop their shield fast enough and get stunned = free win.

    Shields suck really hard btw

    I disagree.

    You just don’t know how to use shields it seems, they are pretty hard to stop those point blank stabs, practice my friend.

    Kick’s are increadibly easy to see coming and easy to drop the shield in time, even when people throw in a feint, a mediocre shield user will get caught out, not a good user though. Given that the shield user can use feints a battle shouldn’t last long enough for “Sooner or later”…

    What I would love is for shield users to have the ability to counter-bash with their shield, for knockback not damage. Similar to parry riposte, when you block within 200ms or something you can choose to do a quick knockback bash.


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