Polish - Improved combat mechanics



  • Here are some suggestions from all over the forums how to make combat more enjoyable. This list focusses only on mechanics and does not consider bugs or balance. Also most of thses suggestions should be able to work in game (as thje technical requirements are already met). Should anybody know how to implement any of them I would be glad to hear.

    (A) TRACERS:
    (1) Higher density of collision tracers
    This avoids being able to strike through narrow obstacles as only hitting with a single tracer just causes the “collision” sound to play but does not interrupt attacks
    (2) Collision tracers for attackers arms
    Similar to the above having tracers on your arms avoids to strike through obstacles by facehugging them. Right now you will be able to strike “around” as your arms will just pass through it not stopping your attack.
    (3) Removal of handle damage tracers
    More exactly: any tracer that below the wielders hand (with the tip of the weapon considered the top end). This should put an end to polearm lookdown overheads and hitting people behind you with the bottom end of your weapon (Quarterstaff might be worth an exception here). Collision tracers should still be active here to avoid the issues mentioned above.
    (4) Top end tracers moved just below the tip
    … instead of being located in the very last end of the weapon. Thats because right now even a barely visible scratch from any weapon does apply the full amount of damage. This leads to situations where a player could swear he was out of reach and untouched by an attack while still taking damage. This can be avoided to require an attack to actually penetrate its target instead of just touching it.
    (5) “Sweet spot” interval damage tracers
    Common sense says that accelerated attacks should deal less damage and that damage should increase continously towards a “sweet spot” interval where the strike deals full damage. Then the damage falls of again. Just like it works in the DW beta.

    (B) HITBOXES
    (1) Revised player collision (double pill shape)
    Having a large cuboid as environmental collision hitbox causes players to get stuck on terrain. Having its orientation uncoupled to the players mdel orientation causes this to be inconsistent. Having a rather large cylinder as player-to-player collsion hitbox doesn’t help either. And the fact that both are flat on the top causes strange interactions when one player jumps on anothers head. So the best solution might be to replace all of those with two approximately pill shaped hitboxes that handle all collision: one for the upper body (to avoid sticking your head inside obstacles or players) and one for the lower body (which stands upright all the time). These hitboxes should be less wide - making it possible to move through gaps that should be big enough for your player model (like the space between tombstones on Stoneshill).
    (2) Crouching affects the collision hitbox
    Right now you can’t crouch below obstacles as your collison hitbox stays the same (try it on Stoneshill with the sign outside). As this does limit movement options (without telling the player who expects to be able to crouch below somethimng) its a bad thing. So crouching should move your upper body hitbox down while reducing the height of your lower body hitbox.
    (3) Reaction for landing on top of someone is “slide down” or "stand"
    … instead of “bounce up”. More accurate hitboxes should help avoiding people running in the air all the time (thats what would happen right now).
    (4) Reduced projectile hitboxes for shield
    This way projectiles won’t get stuck in thin air around shields. The size should match the visual size of the
    shield and shouldn’t be smaller (maybe a little wider)
    (5) More accurate (smaller) parry hitbox
    Instead of having a hitbox of the size of a invisible door in front of you it should be more like a little window. For shields the block hitbox should match the visual size. Parries should have a hitbox about the size of the Bucklers (either the same or slightly smaller). This way you need to aim your parries vertically as much as horizontally and attacks to someones legs won’t automatically fail because he has to look down or crouch now.
    (6) Block hitbox active during shield bash
    Not only are you holding your shield up you are even pushing it forward. There is just no logic behind eing able to push away people in front of you but not their weapon strikes.

    © TIMINGS
    (1) “No parry” window after release rather than combo feint
    Equal rights for panic parry and combo feint parry and the reintroduction of a punishable window if you miss your strike. If done right combat should be much more fluent and skillful. Of course this also means the end for combo parry.
    (2) “No parry” or “panic parry” window depending on weapon recovery time
    Recovery time used to mean something and this is a try to bring it back to matter. So a longer recovery time means (a) that your “no parry” window will be longer leaving you exposed for this duration or (b) that your parries will cost additional stamina until <recovery time="">after release no matter if panic parry or combo feint parry. The first is probably the better solution as it gives more immediate feedback.
    (3) Slightly longer windup times and slightly shorter release times
    A change with feints in mid: The unfeintable window solves most problems but made all but the most twitchy feints impossible for some of the faster weapons. By increasing the windup times there is a bigger window for feinting while keeping the window between feint and damage the same. As this would slow down the weapon an increased release time maintains overall weapon speed and has the (good) side effect that strikes appear more real and less choreographed (in the meaning of “willfully slowed down”). The amount of change should be greater for stabbing attacks.

    (D) SPEED (LIMITS)
    (1) Vanguard charge aborted if speed drops below 300
    An approach to make charge attacks more like charge attacks and less like “WTF is this???”. In short: It avoids fast turn charges (run away until charge is ready then turn 180 degrees and charge your enemy) and facehug charges (run at your enemy with charge ready, don’t start the charge in time but run until you collide with him, then start your charge).
    (2) Dragging speed cap against strike direction reduced (release phase only)
    This should avoid the “stopped his weapon mid air” issue. Delayed strikes still work if you start delaying before you enter release phase but they don’t look as glitchy anymore.

    (E) STAMINA
    (1) Stamina cost for blocking with a shield greatly reduced
    Just a needed change to make shields more viable. Shield blocking should drain about the same amount of stamina as parrying with a sword. If held up for a longer period and hit by an attack there might be an additional cost making it harder to turtle but easier to trade strikes (and deflect them).
    (2) Stamina cost for ranged attacks
    Melee strikes drain stamina of they miss. Ranged attacks never drain stamina no matter what happens. That rapid fire Archer didn’t lose any stamina while the Knight rushing him with his shield up to deflect these rapid fire arrows is almost exhausted. To avoid this there should be a smal stamina cost attached to ranged weapons: bows need stamina when drawn, crossbows during reload, the sling while damage chargeup (alos giving an indicator when the projectile is at max damage) and throwables when the projectile is started.
    (3) Increased stamina pool
    This way stamina does matter less in short fights (right now its perfectly possible to be exhausted after a short trade) but is still a factor when fighting continously, drawn out or just using a lot of fancy tricks. It makes stamina management less of a requirement for learning but keeps it as a requirement for mastering the game.
    (4) Out of stamina punishment changed from stun to % damage
    Getting stunned and watching helplessly while your enemy winds up another strike and kills you is a very frustrating situation to be in. Conversely hitting an enemy and backing off (or getting knocked back) just to see that you missed a perfect opportunity to strike him is also a very frustrating situation to be in. But the fact that parrying out of stamina (a) is possible and (b) gives you free stamina out of thin air it can’t go unpunished - otherwise it would be “Out of stamina? Just parry to get it back!”. enter the direct punishment: Parrying while not having sufficient stamina only reflects a percentage of the damage but doesn’t stun. And it still gives you the free stamina so you basically paid with your health for running out of stamina but also get a reward for parrying successfully (less damage and free stamina). A pleasant side effect is getting rid of Archers stunning Knights by hitting their shield with a little dagger.
    (5) Getting kicked does not drain stamina
    Getting kicked by somebody aready pushes you back while your opponent pays for this effect with stamina. There is no need to add frustration potential by draining your stamina, too. After all you didn’t pay for anything to happen. Your enemy did and thus its just fair if he has less stamina in relation to you.</recovery>



  • @Evil:

    (5) “Sweet spot” interval damage tracers
    This is a bad idea really, because foot work and positioning dictate when damage is delt accross a swing. The game can never reflect this aspect graphically, however, as a player you can just accept it as a given.

    (B) HITBOXES
    (1) Revised player collision (double pill shape)
    This sounds like a good idea, but knights and van guards still need to be bulky up top. Whilst its a hassle getting caught on things it is also a benefit when trying to prevent other players ‘flanking’ or pushing past ones self.
    (4) Reduced projectile hitboxes for shield
    I’m in two minds about this because at the moment its far too easy to shoot past a shield and hit some small extremity. So if this is fixed i’d like to see the spread projectiles widened. I have seen people comment that bolts should be more accurate over distance then arrows, however, this is a fallacy as bolts are rigid and are more affected by cross wind then arrows that flex as they fly.
    ***Also i’ve been frustrated lately by the number of arrows that should whiz past my head but instead a hit is registered even though it looks like my face was a good 1/2 metre (yard) clear of the flying arrow.
    (5) More accurate (smaller) parry hitbox
    Instead of having a hitbox of the size of a invisible door in front of you it should be more like a little window. For shields the block hitbox should match the visual size. Parries should have a hitbox about the size of the Bucklers (either the same or slightly smaller). This way you need to aim your parries vertically as much as horizontally and attacks to someones legs won’t automatically fail because he has to look down or crouch now.
    I largely agree with what you’re saying, but you do need some downward extension of parry and the buckler and heater to prevent the problem where people can merely look at the ground whilst standing to score hits on the leg. I do fully agree that cleaver ground level sweeping attacks need to be rewarded however. I think deleting a portion of the bottom of the parry window to enable this would be good.

    (6) Block hitbox active during shield bash
    Not only are you holding your shield up you are even pushing it forward. There is just no logic behind eing able to push away people in front of you but not their weapon strikes.
    Bloody hell. Too true. OH NOES MORTAL WOUNDS TO THE SHIELD. I’M DYING - SPURT SPURT. :?

    © TIMINGS
    (1) “No parry” window after release rather than combo feint
    Just no. For so many reasons mentioned in other threads. No need to discuss it here when the topic has been done to death and theres more important things to talk about.

    (2) “No parry” or “panic parry” window depending on weapon recovery time
    Recovery time used to mean something and this is a try to bring it back to matter. So a longer recovery time means (a) that your “no parry” window will be longer leaving you exposed for this duration or (b) that your parries will cost additional stamina until <recovery time="">after release no matter if panic parry or combo feint parry. The first is probably the better solution as it gives more immediate feedback.
    This is a good idea. I think a good idea would be to give panic parry to shield users though as it makes sense that you could do a panic block. Either that or give shield uses riposte - its only fair.

    (3) Slightly longer windup times and slightly shorter release times
    this would have a massive effect on how ‘dragable’ weapons are so no. This idea is no good. It’d just be better to directly cap the dragability of weapons directly. (there horazontal and vertical rate changes)

    (D) SPEED (LIMITS)
    (1) Vanguard charge aborted if speed drops below 300
    An approach to make charge attacks more like charge attacks and less like “WTF is this???”. In short: It avoids fast turn charges (run away until charge is ready then turn 180 degrees and charge your enemy) and facehug charges (run at your enemy with charge ready, don’t start the charge in time but run until you collide with him, then start your charge).
    (2) Dragging speed cap against strike direction reduced (release phase only)
    This should avoid the “stopped his weapon mid air” issue. Delayed strikes still work if you start delaying before you enter release phase but they don’t look as glitchy anymore.
    Good idea Mon, i think the easiest solution to this is to cap the VG turning rate whilst he is ‘charging’ that way if he wants to turn tighter is has to briefly stop sprinting and that will drop the ‘charge’ speed/reduced turning rate. Problem solved.
    Dragging cap needed for certain weapons would fix the problem i think.

    (E) STAMINA
    (1) Stamina cost for blocking with a shield greatly reduced
    (2) Stamina cost for ranged attacks
    Yeah stamina cost based on each draw of the bow/xbow.

    (3) Increased stamina pool
    Nah laddy, its not necessary. If i can manage any shield/weapon combo then the stamina pool is fine for everything else that doesn’t use a shield. C:combo warefare was just bad.

    (4) Out of stamina punishment changed from stun to % damage
    Not a bad idea. My idea was that you could move a a walking pace but not be able to kick, parry, block, or attack. If you could at least stumble out of the way then you could make it harder for people to score a head shot during the stamina stun. It’d also be more fun to watch from the attackers point of view, whilst giving the stunee a chance to use evasive measures.

    (5) Getting kicked does not drain stamina
    Nah, then there would be zero point in kicking. YES KICK MORE MORE I LOVE IT…as it is you already lose so much stamina for just one kick that its hardly worth doing.

    Only thing i’d add is that the bubble is good but needs a little tweaking.</recovery>


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