Feint to parry



  • What is to be said against the possibility to feint-to-parry in the last 200ms of windup? So when you feint in the last 200ms (= after the grunt) you have an attack lockout for let’s say 0.5 seconds but are able to parry.

    Because I like the introduced 0.2s timeframe to make feints readable (and actually I think it should be raised for stabs to 0.25s) but I think this would give back some control to the player and decrease the amount of involuntary hittrades.



  • Not good?



  • This was attempted long ago.



  • cftp needs to return, but no more easy mode parry escapes for noobs, i’m tired of it.

    The skill ceiling has already been brought down enough, now any class from ranks 10+_ can kill a 50+ not with ease but it still happens constantly, Having skill in this game means so much less than it used to. your suggestion will just pull everyone closer together and basically make it sop there’s no point to even learn the game anymore… other than the fact than anyone can parry any timne they want.

    the whole point of being good at this game is to not make as many mistakes as your opponent, if you can just make mistakes and not get punished for them with some more get out of jail free cards, you just make the game have less depth. Too many mistakes go unpunished in the game as it is, and your suggestion will further make mistakes care free. I’m sick of that, so please god no.

    there is already a combo parry which basically you can parry while your attack hasnt even finished yet (yeah its true) but then you want to if you totally whiff your attack to still be able to feint to parry that once you’ve gone past combo parry. First off i don’t ev en think it’s possible tofeinttoparry faster than you can combo parry, but lets just say that were true… then you’d have ppl combo parrying, recovery parrying, and if somehow EITHER of those dont work, you would also have a LATe feint to parry.

    What would chivalry come to? The most unskilled frustrating game imaginable.



  • “No more easy mode escape for noobs”

    That’s exactly what bloody CFTP is.

    No wait my mistake its easy mode escape for “pros”.



  • @lemonater47:

    “No more easy mode escape for noobs”

    That’s exactly what bloody CFTP is.

    No wait my mistake its easy mode escape for “pros”.

    +1



  • @lemonater47:

    “No more easy mode escape for noobs”

    That’s exactly what bloody CFTP is.

    No wait my mistake its easy mode escape for “pros”.

    CFTP was too hard for baby scrubs on pubs so SlyGoat had to remove it and replace it with much weaker mechanic which totally fucked up the balance for vanguards/knights vs maa fights.
    It’s like they never thought about outcomes of that stupid decision.

    Whole point of that patch was to make game easier for casuals so it could sell better. Look at CDW - baby mode tracers, because people whine about lookdowns and drags.



  • Guys, I am not talking about parrying in recovery or combo. I am talking about the windup.

    And this suggestion is to decrease hittrades, which in my opinion are not raising the so called “skill ceiling” (bah I hate that word). If my opponent and me start attacks at the same time, it is a skillful act for me to decide in a fraction of a second:

    • his weapon is faster I need to feint-to-parry, because most probably he will flinch me
    • his weapon does way more damage, I must abort and take the stamina loss from parrying
    • i’m nearly dead, I can’t hittrade

    This just gives more control to the fight and forcing hittrades will be way harder to do.
    Now if you want to discuss cftp go to CRUSHED’s thread pls.



  • ITT: People who dont understand the purpose of CFTP, FTP, and suck at this fucking game.



  • @fvonb:

    Guys, I am not talking about parrying in recovery or combo. I am talking about the windup.

    And this suggestion is to decrease hittrades, which in my opinion are not raising the so called “skill ceiling” (bah I hate that word). If my opponent and me start attacks at the same time, it is a skillful act for me to decide in a fraction of a second:

    • his weapon is faster I need to feint-to-parry, because most probably he will flinch me
    • his weapon does way more damage, I must abort and take the stamina loss from parrying
    • i’m nearly dead, I can’t hittrade

    This just gives more control to the fight and forcing hittrades will be way harder to do.
    Now if you want to discuss cftp go to CRUSHED’s thread pls.

    So basically longer wundups?



  • @lemonater47:

    “No more easy mode escape for noobs”

    That’s exactly what bloody CFTP is.

    No wait my mistake its easy mode escape for “pros”.

    You could do much more with CFTP than panic parry. And yeh, the reason it worked so well was because not everyone could do it. Pubs had a good time without it and comp players had an good time with it. Making CFTP disabled a server option would be a better choice than basically screwing up both styles of play. Outright removing it without adding panic parry would have been a better choice imo, too.



  • @Xylvion:

    So basically longer wundups?

    Not really, windups stay the same.
    Right now if you have a 0.5 second windup, you cannot feint in the last 0.2 seconds. That means you can only decide to abort the attack in the first 0.3 seconds, after that you have to commit to the attack. What I propose is, that you can feint at any point in the 0.5 seconds, but when you feint in the last 0.2 seconds you can only follow up with a parry, not with another attack.



  • @NabsterHax:

    @lemonater47:

    “No more easy mode escape for noobs”

    That’s exactly what bloody CFTP is.

    No wait my mistake its easy mode escape for “pros”.

    You could do much more with CFTP than panic parry. And yeh, the reason it worked so well was because not everyone could do it. Pubs had a good time without it and comp players had an good time with it. Making CFTP disabled a server option would be a better choice than basically screwing up both styles of play. Outright removing it without adding panic parry would have been a better choice imo, too.

    It’s was pretty damn easy to do. And some people made an ini edit which meant it could be done faster and you only had to push 1 button.

    Though panic parry is often done by complete accident by people who don’t even know of the mechanic. CFTP could not be done accidently. But once you know of it its not that hard.

    It was good in group combat. But it also meant you can be overly agressive in 1v1 combat and parry everything that came at you. Didn’t cost much stamina to do either. Mainly becuase it was an accidental mechanic that got given a name.



  • @fvonb:

    Not really, windups stay the same.
    Right now if you have a 0.5 second windup, you cannot feint in the last 0.2 seconds. That means you can only decide to abort the attack in the first 0.3 seconds, after that you have to commit to the attack. What I propose is, that you can feint at any point in the 0.5 seconds, but when you feint in the last 0.2 seconds you can only follow up with a parry, not with another attack.

    Ah, seems kind of interesting. But would probably introduce more bugs to the game.



  • CFTP was just as much a “pro tactic” as dragging, feinting, FTP or anything else that can be used to farm noobs. I don’t think that anyone of you wants to remove dragging or feinting.



  • @lemonater47:

    @NabsterHax:

    @lemonater47:

    “No more easy mode escape for noobs”

    That’s exactly what bloody CFTP is.

    No wait my mistake its easy mode escape for “pros”.

    You could do much more with CFTP than panic parry. And yeh, the reason it worked so well was because not everyone could do it. Pubs had a good time without it and comp players had an good time with it. Making CFTP disabled a server option would be a better choice than basically screwing up both styles of play. Outright removing it without adding panic parry would have been a better choice imo, too.

    It’s was pretty damn easy to do. And some people made an ini edit which meant it could be done faster and you only had to push 1 button.

    Though panic parry is often done by complete accident by people who don’t even know of the mechanic. CFTP could not be done accidently. But once you know of it its not that hard.

    It was good in group combat. But it also meant you can be overly agressive in 1v1 combat and parry everything that came at you. Didn’t cost much stamina to do either. Mainly becuase it was an accidental mechanic that got given a name.

    this is only true against medicore players against good players your cftp was punished everytime in 1v1



  • as amazing as the old meta was i dont want any more tbs balance patches, they have a habit of making the game worse. just let me play promod+ already plzplz



  • @lemonater47:

    “No more easy mode escape for noobs”

    That’s exactly what bloody CFTP is.

    No wait my mistake its easy mode escape for “pros”.

    so, right clicking is harder than doing a combo then feinting to right click? i guess we live in a world where 3 actions are easier than 2 all of a sudden, because basically right click does what cftp did before only… it’s just right click now. Without any understanding of mechanics, players can effectively cftp on both regular swings and combo swings pending they don’t continue to combo.

    so when new players start out and they want to play maa, they don’t really know how to dodge well, although it can be bound to a single key… once they figure out how to dodge, pretty damn easy right? So… why can “only pros” cftp? is it that difficult for people to grasp? is it such a challenging use of mechanics that a simple mind just can’t wrap their head around, to be able to push 2 keys? apparenlty only “pros” can press 2 keys down. do you think the entire community just can’t handle it? I’m sorry if it seems so difficult to you lemon, but i would just say that presing 2 keys timed is harder than pressing 1 key timed. SO… while you say cftp was the same, it wasn’t… you just basically have that but it’s only one key now. We’re all sorry that pressing 2 buttons was so hard for you bro. Maybe work on your forearms or something so your muscular strength could handle the load of pushing 2 buttons down next time.

    explain how more keys to press is easier lemon? explain it to me ever so simply plz… i’m just not grasping your logic.

    if feinting to parry which is attack, feint, parry… 3 actions. why is it so hard for people to feint the NEXT attack and do the same thing? i can’t believe its so difficult when it’s not. The removal of cftp is retarded. Now you can combo feint to attack which actually can damage someone and still throw off timing and be aggressive, but NOONE has an issue with that. NOONE has an issue with combo feinting a bearded axe, or any other weapon, and even the newest of players can do that. So why can you combo feint to attack, but you can’t combo feint to parry? Makes NO GODDAMN SENSE!

    so lemon, respond to me in one line your reasoning for why it should have been excluded from the game to where if you decide to cftp, you now go into retard delay like you forgot how to swing your sword for .3 seconds or w/e the fuck it is?

    lemon: “cftp is for pros only, and that’s why you want it back clayton, because you’re too pro for the rest of us”

    me: " yea that’s right lemon, i’m spreaking on behalf of all the pros that want cftp back because combo parry is too hard for anyone to grasp, i can’t learn how to right click man because my fingers just get so sticky sometimes that i can’t click my mouse and people scare me with their crazy moves and stuff and it just flusters me so i can’t right click at the right time. And i don’t really know how far my weapon can reach and OH BOY i miss a lot so i need something there that will save me but i don’t want it to be too hard, because again, my fingers get all sticky and stuff uknorite?"



  • Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t a Beta phase of "The Patch" have this basic system? Iirc it took the form of the a feint in the last 0.15s of windup leaving you unable to attack for a very brief period of time. I’m not sure wether you could block in that time though. I don’t know why this wasn’t implemented (perhaps with 0.2s instead of 1.5s) in favour of a complete feint lockout. Perhaps they were worried about inconsistencies with the handling of feints.

    I also remember them completely disabling the ability of feinting or even aborting combos in one of the next Beta updates. That was funny.

    OT:
    I think it doesn’t seem like a bad idea. I feel like there are so many hittrades lately and having another option would always be nice. But I see people crying about the inconsistency in their offensive feints (because they might not realise the existence of that timeframe or it might indeed bug out) as well as others crying about bringing back late feints. I mean: the attack-lockout would make them pretty easy to defend against if used in offensive, but that wouldn’t stop people from crying.
    All in all I think it is a good idea, granted it can be implemented bug free. But expect crying. As always.



  • argument was for cftp that OH, i can’t go from offensive to defense so quickly and completely change the pace of battle.

    but OH… i can attack, cancel it, parry, and then riposte attack. Offensive (attack) to defensive (feint to parry) and then attack again (riposte)…

    so why the hell can’t you do that after your second attack?

    Oh, because you can parry it and riposte again but it throws people off because you’re comboing and you’re just supposed to combo and not change your attack.

    So wait, do you mean that the defender is no longer able to parry when this happens?

    no.

    so then whats the issue?

    oh well you know people just expect that once you combo you’re just going to follow through.

    but hey what about that first point you made to where they could cancel the first attack, people would think you’re following through on that one too right? And then you dont parrying and riposting into them right? That could be confusing too right?

    well yes jhonny that’s true, but when you do it on the first attack that’s ok, a second attack is just absutrd to cancel out of… unless you’re doing another attack because that does damage.

    so… you mean i can’t parry which is defending myself, but if i want to trick someone and hurt them it’s ok?

    that’s right my friend, totally legitimate in that circumstance, just don’t try to use it defensively because that’s a big no no. You see johnny, when people want to change the pace of battle and trick someone, they can only do it offensively, that’s basically the idea of feints in general, when you try and get too real for people and use a parry instead of an attack, people just go insane and can’t really wrap their heads around it.

    The solution mr sir?

    oh well when someone tries to use this tactic defensively, the are rendered full-retard for .3 seconds.

    Full retard? what’s that mr. sir?

    Well johnny, that means you just stand there and can’t really do much of anything

    does that mean i’m on drugs?

    hahaha no johnny, even people on drugs can do more that some average human beings, but this renders you completely useless and you basically just stand there while someone is going to smack you in the head with a pointy sharp thing.

    but mr sir? why would i do that?

    johnny, that’s a damn good question, while i have no good reason to give to you, i can just say that there are some people out there that would rather stand there like a tard, instead of being a man.

    well mr sir, i’ve learned a lot from this lesson, lets just hope that eventually people can realize how to not go full retard, i know I for one never want to go full retard.

    Right you are, johnny… high five!


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