Vans and ranged spam



  • Have you noticed a large increase of vans with ranks 42 upwards? I looked at the scoredboard on a T/O
    game and the top 4 of each side were infact Vans ranked from 40 to 52 with kdr you would not believe.
    One meeting them on the battlefield they were trying to hit as many players in a large circle with ranged spam and seemingly no stamina loss.

    You need to get some admins out undercover to see this bs on the pubs tbh TB.



  • Wat

    Are you saying they are hacking? Or exploiting? If the answer is no, then admin-actions are not required. Vanguard is a strong class, especially for public play. Get used to it.



  • KDR i would not believe? i have yet to see that.



  • Rank 40+ vanguards doing well in pubs with the left mouse button?

    Meanwhile the sky is blue and grass is green.



  • @DokB:

    Rank 40+ vanguards doing well in pubs with the left mouse button?

    Meanwhile the sky is blue and grass is green.

    This. Not hard for a 40+ van to just use the zwei and just slice through everyone with lmb. It’s to be expected of someone with high rank to be honest, though I know rank == skill. But I would rather deal with 40+ than the newbies who sit there and lmb everything even if your 1v1ing someone in t/o they lmb, charge, or stab just to k/s you while kill you in the process. Nearly 2/3 of my deaths are from that.



  • I don’t see what is wrong with rank 40+ people using Vanguards and Zwiehanders and only using LMB.
    I mean, it’s a Zwiehander, it isn’t supposed to be used in very close combat, the Zwiehander is a massive sword, it’s expected to just swing and kill those who aren’t blocking.
    I don’t see why everyone hates Vanguards, the class is destroyed by all archers.



  • @Bazzyboss:

    I don’t see why everyone hates Vanguards, the class is destroyed by all archers.

    Oneshoting archers with a zwei makes up for it sometimes tho :>



  • @Bazzyboss:

    I don’t see what is wrong with rank 40+ people using Vanguards and Zwiehanders and only using LMB.
    I mean, it’s a Zwiehander, it isn’t supposed to be used in very close combat, the Zwiehander is a massive sword, it’s expected to just swing and kill those who aren’t blocking.
    I don’t see why everyone hates Vanguards, the class is destroyed by all archers.

    Every class is destroyed by archers.

    Also, the Zwei is a dragging weapon. Expect lots of LMBs and the occasional overhead.



  • The only problem I have with Vanguards, is that there is no weight to any of their weapons. So they can swing in circles, run around swinging and jump a lot while swinging or stabbing.

    Now, when a Vanguard does this, I normally wait for my chance to move in. However, given the parry system we have now, by the time I get in range, they easily can throw up a block, or depending on distance, start another attack.

    I either block the attack or I’m already in the processing of swinging. Considering how things go, no matter how late into the attack it can be, if they start their attack, it goes right through and can kill me or do some damage. That’s if I manage to not block right after I attack.

    Unless you’re a Knight or a Vanguard, then closing that distance or protecting yourself from the long swings is easy, but if you’re MAA or Archer, you have a lot more work to do while the Vanguard only needs to simply swing again.

    A few things to add:

    The Vanguard sprint, considering it’s based on an animation, I think there should be a way to stop the Vanguard midway if it gets hit.

    Finally, the swing makes me laugh. I could be behind the Vanguard and sometimes, the swing almost does a 360 without the Vanguard needing to move. Being hit by that while trying to fight off other people can be frustrating.

    Not to mention, that even when it’s the last few frames of an attack, you’re still getting hit with some decent damage.



  • Hence another reason the panic parry is stupid where it can eliminate punishing missed swings where they can miraculously pull a swinging Zwei out of the air and pull off a parry. It’s hard enough when you barely avoid the extreme drag people do on Zwei’s, only for them to panic parry your attack away.



  • @DokB:

    Hence another reason the panic parry is stupid where it can eliminate punishing missed swings where they can miraculously pull a swinging Zwei out of the air and pull off a parry. It’s hard enough when you barely avoid the extreme drag people do on Zwei’s, only for them to panic parry your attack away.

    ^ This.

    There also should be a better system in which hit priorities are determined.

    If anyone has played Smash Bros, then you know that there are attacks that have a higher priority over another. It should be done like this.

    For example:

    A MAA’s overhead, could have a higher priority than an Archer’s swing, but an Archer’s stab has a higher priority than a Vanguard’s overhead, then a Vanguard’s swing could have a higher priority than a Knight’s overhead and the Knight’s swing could have a higher priority than the MAA’s overhead.

    If you do something like that to all attacks, then you’d have a more balanced way of determining when hits should land and when they shouldn’t.

    It would be cool if you can also have weapons bounce off each other.



  • And for those of us who haven’t played smash bros because we don’t own 1100 games what is this attack priority mechanic? How would it work exactly?



  • @DokB:

    Hence another reason the panic parry is stupid where it can eliminate punishing missed swings where they can miraculously pull a swinging Zwei out of the air and pull off a parry. It’s hard enough when you barely avoid the extreme drag people do on Zwei’s, only for them to panic parry your attack away.

    interesting opinion, considering that when panic parry was around vanguards had little place in the higher echelon of competitive play, and were just as prone to defeat, if not more, than any other class. perhaps it was the fact that everyone could employ the tactic? :D



  • @lemonater47:

    And for those of us who haven’t played smash bros because we don’t own 1100 games what is this attack priority mechanic? How would it work exactly?

    Then you should fix that…

    The attack priority, which is used in a lot of games, is basically giving the attack levels in a way, which helps determine what attack lands.

    For example, if we were to use Chivalry:

    So lets say that the priority list has numbers between 1-10. 1 being the lowest, 10 being the highest. (You never actually know the numbers)

    An archer’s stab could be 8, while a MAA’s overhead could be 6. So what this means is that if both the archer and the MAA make their respective attack at the same time, whichever has the higher priority, so in this case, the stab, would land.

    So instead of how it is now where an attack could land but the opponent could still get the attack through, it would be the archer would get a stab in and the opponent’s attack would stop, not causing damage. The only way to beat the archer’s stab is with an attack that is either the same priority or higher.

    The way you balance all that out is by giving each attack a priority.

    So stab could be 8, overhead could be 6, alt swing could be 5, swing could be 3. (You can change this per class to change things up) This way, when you attack, if you have the higher priority and you land the attack, the opponent shouldn’t be able to follow through with the attack. Since each class has each attack, it sort of becomes like a game of chess.

    If you know that the person playing an MAA likes to overhead, then you’re going to try to go in with your attack as an Archer that has the priority thats either the same or higher. This would not only prevent everyone from swinging as much, but you become more strategic in what hits you’re going to use and when you land them.



  • @magilla:

    @DokB:

    Hence another reason the panic parry is stupid where it can eliminate punishing missed swings where they can miraculously pull a swinging Zwei out of the air and pull off a parry. It’s hard enough when you barely avoid the extreme drag people do on Zwei’s, only for them to panic parry your attack away.

    interesting opinion, considering that when panic parry was around vanguards had little place in the higher echelon of competitive play, and were just as prone to defeat, if not more, than any other class. perhaps it was the fact that everyone could employ the tactic? :D

    I’d say there was a lot of factors for why the Vanguard wasn’t taken competitively a few months ago, but now that they are, it isn’t because of panic parry, instead it’s their now extremely strong weapons coupled with knock back and removal of certain other mechanics like cftp.



  • @DokB:

    @magilla:

    @DokB:

    Hence another reason the panic parry is stupid where it can eliminate punishing missed swings where they can miraculously pull a swinging Zwei out of the air and pull off a parry. It’s hard enough when you barely avoid the extreme drag people do on Zwei’s, only for them to panic parry your attack away.

    interesting opinion, considering that when panic parry was around vanguards had little place in the higher echelon of competitive play, and were just as prone to defeat, if not more, than any other class. perhaps it was the fact that everyone could employ the tactic? :D

    I’d say there was a lot of factors for why the Vanguard wasn’t taken competitively a few months ago, but now that they are, it isn’t because of panic parry, instead it’s their now extremely strong weapons coupled with knock back and removal of certain other mechanics like cftp.

    my main point was that if vanguards utilizing cftp had an objectively lesser showing in the hardest of competitive realms (if these players could efficiently deal with that capability on a regular basis,) let us not use them as an example of the mechanic’s “stupidity.”



  • @Keith:

    @lemonater47:

    And for those of us who haven’t played smash bros because we don’t own 1100 games what is this attack priority mechanic? How would it work exactly?

    Then you should fix that…

    The attack priority, which is used in a lot of games, is basically giving the attack levels in a way, which helps determine what attack lands.

    For example, if we were to use Chivalry:

    So lets say that the priority list has numbers between 1-10. 1 being the lowest, 10 being the highest. (You never actually know the numbers)

    An archer’s stab could be 8, while a MAA’s overhead could be 6. So what this means is that if both the archer and the MAA make their respective attack at the same time, whichever has the higher priority, so in this case, the stab, would land.

    So instead of how it is now where an attack could land but the opponent could still get the attack through, it would be the archer would get a stab in and the opponent’s attack would stop, not causing damage. The only way to beat the archer’s stab is with an attack that is either the same priority or higher.

    The way you balance all that out is by giving each attack a priority.

    So stab could be 8, overhead could be 6, alt swing could be 5, swing could be 3. (You can change this per class to change things up) This way, when you attack, if you have the higher priority and you land the attack, the opponent shouldn’t be able to follow through with the attack. Since each class has each attack, it sort of becomes like a game of chess.

    If you know that the person playing an MAA likes to overhead, then you’re going to try to go in with your attack as an Archer that has the priority thats either the same or higher. This would not only prevent everyone from swinging as much, but you become more strategic in what hits you’re going to use and when you land them.

    That sounds interesting, but it’s a lot of faith to put into this at the moment. First and foremost I think we need to get flinch functioning again. I think that would help with the hit-trade fest this game has become. It’s been a while since I’ve seen someone actually flinched in windup, except for those cases were it hits incredibly early in the windup.

    Honestly hit trade is one of the knight’s abilities and his real strength. Personally I don’t have a problem with hit trades, I have a problem with hit trades that should have been flinched. The hit trade might be a bit “gamey” but it’s a really important part of this game, and one that used to work out alright (again, until flinch went on the fritz).

    Under this system I would worry that the MaA would be more of a pill. Their real weakness is that they can be hit traded. I’m worried he would only need to do the attack to cancel stabs (because it’s all that can usually reach him as an MaA) and would become even more powerful in a 1 on 1 scenario, if not in team modes.

    Just my thinking man, not trying to put your idea down. Good pondering you’re doing there!



  • @DokB:

    @magilla:

    @DokB:

    Hence another reason the panic parry is stupid where it can eliminate punishing missed swings where they can miraculously pull a swinging Zwei out of the air and pull off a parry. It’s hard enough when you barely avoid the extreme drag people do on Zwei’s, only for them to panic parry your attack away.

    interesting opinion, considering that when panic parry was around vanguards had little place in the higher echelon of competitive play, and were just as prone to defeat, if not more, than any other class. perhaps it was the fact that everyone could employ the tactic? :D

    I’d say there was a lot of factors for why the Vanguard wasn’t taken competitively a few months ago, but now that they are, it isn’t because of panic parry, instead it’s their now extremely strong weapons coupled with knock back and removal of certain other mechanics like cftp.

    Exactly, the reason Vans weren’t used as much competitively was because Knights were just that bit better. If anything Vans are a bit OP nowadays, particularly with the Brandistock and Knights are a bit UP. Knockback was a big change IMO.



  • @quigleyer:

    @Keith:

    @lemonater47:

    And for those of us who haven’t played smash bros because we don’t own 1100 games what is this attack priority mechanic? How would it work exactly?

    Then you should fix that…

    The attack priority, which is used in a lot of games, is basically giving the attack levels in a way, which helps determine what attack lands.

    For example, if we were to use Chivalry:

    So lets say that the priority list has numbers between 1-10. 1 being the lowest, 10 being the highest. (You never actually know the numbers)

    An archer’s stab could be 8, while a MAA’s overhead could be 6. So what this means is that if both the archer and the MAA make their respective attack at the same time, whichever has the higher priority, so in this case, the stab, would land.

    So instead of how it is now where an attack could land but the opponent could still get the attack through, it would be the archer would get a stab in and the opponent’s attack would stop, not causing damage. The only way to beat the archer’s stab is with an attack that is either the same priority or higher.

    The way you balance all that out is by giving each attack a priority.

    So stab could be 8, overhead could be 6, alt swing could be 5, swing could be 3. (You can change this per class to change things up) This way, when you attack, if you have the higher priority and you land the attack, the opponent shouldn’t be able to follow through with the attack. Since each class has each attack, it sort of becomes like a game of chess.

    If you know that the person playing an MAA likes to overhead, then you’re going to try to go in with your attack as an Archer that has the priority thats either the same or higher. This would not only prevent everyone from swinging as much, but you become more strategic in what hits you’re going to use and when you land them.

    That sounds interesting, but it’s a lot of faith to put into this at the moment. First and foremost I think we need to get flinch functioning again. I think that would help with the hit-trade fest this game has become. It’s been a while since I’ve seen someone actually flinched in windup, except for those cases were it hits incredibly early in the windup.

    Honestly hit trade is one of the knight’s abilities and his real strength. Personally I don’t have a problem with hit trades, I have a problem with hit trades that should have been flinched. The hit trade might be a bit “gamey” but it’s a really important part of this game, and one that used to work out alright (again, until flinch went on the fritz).

    Under this system I would worry that the MaA would be more of a pill. Their real weakness is that they can be hit traded. I’m worried he would only need to do the attack to cancel stabs (because it’s all that can usually reach him as an MaA) and would become even more powerful in a 1 on 1 scenario, if not in team modes.

    Just my thinking man, not trying to put your idea down. Good pondering you’re doing there!

    Under this system, it would effectively have flinching, while allowing each class to be properly balanced.

    Basically it’d be a giant game of Rock, Paper, Scissors in a way, except with the options to defend yourself.



  • I thnk the biggest problem right now is the “hit field” with the range and fov. Like for example when you pierce the guy with a spear and he does not get any hit. I know it’s part of the game but a fixed FOV to 94 - 95 would be nice.


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