Review of DW / Pros and Cons.



  • Hi all,

    Thought i’d give my final thoughts on this game. Feel free to add your own pros and cons list with mine… Bit of a monologue, but hey - procrastination is wonderful.

    Im going to make extra special effort to be nice because I understand that criticism is meant to be constructive. Unfortunately I am so negative about the expansion that its difficult to be positive, but im trying - and I can only be honest with my thoughts. If I think theres an issue, its mentioned, and why. Thats not trolling or flaming - Any criticism directed at the developers specifically is because I feel they could have done better. Somehow I imagine the thread will end up locked or edited or something but… hey, that seemingly the new policy round here. Criticism is ‘trolling’ after all.

    Pros

    • Some of the maps are graphically, lovely. (fortress)
    • Multiteam gameplay can be really quite fun sometimes, when it works out.
    • A wide variety of classes and weapons to play with, with different playstyles.
    • Any new content is good, ultimately.
    • The samurai laugh is funny, along with a few other scripts.
    • Didnt cost the full price of a game/good value?
    • Fun for ‘X’ amount of time based on the player - but crucially, still FUN for most people, for a time.
    • Weapon balance seems fairly good off the bat, which is refreshing. (except the bloody bo staff)
    • Fast health regen system is good for gameplay intensity, and fun.
    • Dragging still sort of possible (more on some weapons): even with the overheads on the katana, ever so mildly.
    • Statistics tracking is an excellent, much belated feature.

    **
    Cons**

    • Amateurish looking menus go a long way to cheapen the feel of the game.

    • ‘Multiplay’ Official servers still here, after complaints, and still rubbish as ever.

    • Server browser problems still unfixed. STILL! (randomly crashes, wont refresh or find servers, etc)

    • Maps are often too large dependent on server size, making matches boring.

    • Some maps manage to be graphically barren, and boring (fjord), others manage to be gaudy and silly (isle), and Acropolis even manages to look gaudy and silly WHILST somhow feeling barren and boring.

    • Despite CMW voice acting being very original and mostly very funny, the DW voices and scripts (especially the incredibly crap taunts) are mostly so mind numbingly generic and humourless that it makes grown men want to empty a split thermometer into their ears to ease the pain.

    • The potential of the Combat system is ruined by two simple things: the vast hit-trade potential and the storm of LMB clicking. To elaborate, LMB is easily the most useful attack and is thus the most used. Stabs and overheads are typically far harder to land on enemies with the increased movement speeds, (magnified due to the very fast windup/release on many weapons) yet dont give much of a damage payoff to be really worth that risk in most situations. I find that LMB spam does me just fine in terms of winning, but i hardly find it fun. In CMW, id throw out LMB about 15% of the time. In DW, its basically 70%, and the same for pretty much everyone else you see. The slow movement speeds in CMW made good footwork very important, especially with knight. In DW, combine the increased movement speed with boatloads of hit trades and very fast attacks and it becomes far less beneficial, and far harder to punish missed swings without hit trading. Deliberate missed swings and mindless comboing are basically a massive tactic now.

    • You can look a shield at the floor and still block attacks from behind (features in ‘that’ other thread). There is still ghost swings all over the place. Animations for attacks are incredibly inconsistent and are generally of poor quality (ninjato is probably the biggest culprit, it connects before the animation). Stabs where the onscreen spear model goes visibly into the enemy character model and yet no hit registers. (despite low ping). The list goes on. Perhaps the release times/draggability of the stabs should be increased to match the increased movement speeds or something.

    • Association with the ‘deadliest warrior’ TV show is about as ‘Pre-teen american boy’ consumer demographic as you can go, and its quite frankly, embarrassing to even play because of it. Cringeworthy. I’d switch the screen off if one of my housemates walked in, its that embarrassing. I’d rather have them see me watching cat-videos or something.

    • No team objective kills the game entirely, and yet it is completely omitted only because it would have required more than a whisker of effort.

    -Multiteam LTS is basically a metaphor for ‘Teamstacking and hide in a corner-match’

    –--------------------------------------------------
    Im sure theres a few points i’ve missed good and bad but… thats it to summarise.

    I feel that TB didnt put real effort into this expansion, and it shows. Instead of giving us a more refined, tighter, less bugged combat system we get the same old boatload of bugs, with increased movement speed and reduced windup/releases. Instead of getting more of what we all originally loved (Team objective), we get TB making a quick dash for a quick buck by teaming up with a brand (if you can call spike TV a brand), over a short development period to release a fairly poor quality product.

    Look, the game isnt totally awful, its quite fun for an hour or so, then moderately entertaining for a while after that but… as a fan of the original game that sunk a lot of effort into that, enjoyed it competitively against the big name teams with syn. (albeit towards the end of the competitive scene’s prime period, and the swift decline) and, more extensively, casually for fun - I cant help but feel like this offering is far too little, and isnt a step forward so much as a step sideways, a totally missed opportunity.

    It will not hold my attention, and i am certainly not alone. CMW had a decent cult following that absolutely loved the game, over time it died out due to many reasons - and I think that for the future DW will not hold a consistent, long term audience. TB gave me a lot of value for my original CMW purchase, which I will always appreciate but - I cant hide my disappointment that it has all come to something of an end.

    I wouldnt recommend any of my friends to purchase it, and I’ve already warded a few off. Poor effort shows, and word of it spreads. Alas.

    :(



  • Well said.

    I haven’t purchased it (nor did I ever plan to) but it’s good that I fought off the temptation and I thank you for taking the time to write this up, was a good read.



  • i’m somewhat inclined to agree with you… i think that a lot of the appeal in mw’s combat is lost within dw. playing for a while in dw seems like it will be a much more diminishing return. succeeding, and becoming better at the game does not have the same thrill, and i don’t see myself sinking so many hours into this one. the air is quirky, the feel almost comical. the fast pace delivers an arcade-like feel. much of the intensity is lost.

    it’s also peculiar, this teaming up with a brand… while i like the introduction of more warriors into the chivalry platform (let’s face it, it’s awesome to brawl it out as different warriors of history,) deadliest warrior is a particularly painful label to play.

    i can understand a desire/need for increased profit; however, we the players have not seen the result of this profit at all. with an exceptionally larger budget than mw, we could’ve expected a more refined product. as it stands, the servers are a mess. high ping players riddle them. i have witnessed loads of desyncs and hackers throughout my time with the game. bugs (to be expected after mw) plague the game. i am particularly dissatisfied with the crashing issues.

    all in all, we’re left with an expansion that doesn’t really expand upon the previous title. it is a stand alone, different in so many aspects, but it detracts so much from the original Chivalry name in order to cater to this “Deadliest Warrior” brand.



  • Well the menus are a vast improvement over C:MW. And you don’t have to play on official servers.

    And LMB spamming isn’t hard to combat. I don’t see the problem. It isn’t viable. Its actually a little weak though I’m not complaining. People just use RMB less and then complain that LMB is too strong.

    And in my opinion the voice acting is still great as always.

    Desyncs and stuff like that happen like they happen in MW. Really bad on official servers and again almost non existent on the servers I play on.

    There’s smaller maps just the silly servers owners need to put them in the rotation for their 32 player server.

    And I’m sure you have made a TO map to say how to make a good balanced map. I’ve seen the development of the SDK TO maps an they take a very very long time. Don’t talk about blue hour that’s only one objective its dark and rather small. Ts a weirded varient of king of the hill if anything and that still took a while.

    I still don’t see Spartans walking around staring at the ground.

    You seem to make a big deal move small things. Or blame torn banner for the way the people play. (LMB spamming, pussies in LTS).

    And lol you dislike the whole theme of the game. Well don’t hate it but you fear what your friends would think. If they don’t like deadliest warrior TV series agree with them and say you play because of the gameplay.

    Now you’ll probably hate me after I just ripped into your criticism. I do agree with the fact that some of thesis are rather bland. Some got more attention than others.

    And I used deliberate missed swings all the time in MW and I felt special. But as you say now everyone is doing them. Except against spears where they are very beneficial. Instead they say that’s spears are OP.

    I also find there is a greater team spirit in multi team LTS than there ever was in MW LTS or even TO.

    And yes I’m sad there is no TO. But hey its $10 cheaper and it does take a while to make TO maps. And they only have one level designer. I mean they would of at least needed 6 of them.

    Still its only your opinion vs mine for the most part. I also don’t like complaining and I find solutions to problems.



  • YOU JUST DON’T LIKE IT BECAUSE YOU’RE A NOOB, DUEL ME IRL SCRUB.

    No no, just kidding, very well thought out post. I highly appreciate the lack of rage and hate in it. I do however disagree with you on a lot of your cons. I guess I’ll go by list.

    #1: The amateurish menu. While they do look quite amateurish, they work perfectly. I’ve never had a button that never worked. Because the menus serve their purpose without fault, I don’t think you can say they’re a con.

    #2: Multiplay servers. Going with Multiplay was the best option TBS had. TBS needed a lot, A LOT, of servers, and they needed them to work. Multiplay likely made a deal with TBS for a massive discount on their servers. Even though they’re rubbish, they get the job done. So I wouldn’t count this as a con because TBS practically had no other choice.

    #3: Server browser problems. Yeah okay, these are annoying. But honestly, I rarely have a server browser malfunction. Maybe 1 out of 10-15 launches. Plus all you need to do to fix it is just re-launch the game. So I don’t think this rare problem should be considered a con either.

    #4: Maps too large depending on server size. Yeah, this is a problem, although you can completely ignore this problem by simply moving to another server. 90% of the time, for me at least, the player count and map size work fine. TBS are also introducing small and medium versions of all the maps just for this. I wouldn’t count this as a con since it’s going to be completely fixed soon.

    #5: I think the con on the graphical fidelity of the maps should not be there, because it’s an opinion, and your own personal belief. I’m sure there are people who think Fortress is barren and Acropolis is amazing. I personally like all the maps :P.

    #6: The voice acting. I have to agree with you here. Even though the voice acting isn’t amazing, it’s aright. I mean it’s not bad or terrible by any stretch but I can see where you’re coming from with this. I love the voice acting for the Ninja though. I have actually laughed out loud at some of the stuff the Ninja says. xD

    #7: LMB spam sucks, and rarely works. It only works sometimes because people forget there’s a parry mechanic. Also it’s a new game and the noobs come. Eventually the noobs will get better and use more overheads and stabs. (They already use plenty from what I’ve seen) Also mindless comboing and missed swings…I fuck people who do that. So do any good players. It is very easy to punish missed swings…you just let them miss, then attack. Also, good footwork is just as important as it was in MW, if not more so because of the speeds. I’ve won a 1v5 with Ninja before with good footwork. That whole con is moot.

    #8: I’ve literally never experienced any of what you describe in your next con, except maybe one ghost swing. I find the animations to be good, much better than MW that’s for sure.

    #9: Now that’s just silly. If you’re embarrassed about playing a video game, that’s not a con towards TBS or Deadliest Warrior. That’s your own problem.

    #10: TBS has one level editor. A single good TO map can take over a month to make. He already made amazing TDM, FFA, and LTS maps, and he probably worked around the clock doing so. Plus those are the focused game modes for DW. People will start making good TO maps with the SDK soon. I don’t think the lack of TO should be a detriment to the game whatsoever, because it literally would have been impossible to have happen without sacrificing majorly in other maps, or hiring more level designers.

    #11: Multi-team LTS. I and the other few thousand or so other players enjoy it. Team balance will also be introduced soon, fixing this problem. There’s so much team spirit in the Multi-team LTS too. Just earlier I was playing Spartan, and all of the Spartans formed phalanxes every round inside alleyways and elsewhere too. The entire server had a hilarious time trying to kill us xD. On Fjord pirates will frequently go and camp on the boats, drinking rum and taunting, which is hilarious and amazing. Ninjas will hide and set up ambushes, etc.

    Okay…I’m done…too much typing for one post.



  • I think that pretty much everyone can agree that this game can’t hold a candle to the original, but as an expansion, I don’t know if that’s a reasonable thing to hope for. I agree with a lot of what you say, particularly the LMB spam (SURELY Torn Banner must know about this by now?).

    One complaint I don’t see very often, and one of my biggest gripes, is the lack of weaponry. I understand that there are several classes to choose from, but if I’m a ninja/Viking/knight and I want a sword, I only have ONE to choose from. Hell, the ninja only has 4 primary options, even the archer in MW has more melee variety. That really bothers me, as I’m fairly sure all those empty selection boxes are due to the time frame TB was given, which was clearly too small. Throw in the removal of the 3rd weapon slot, and your customization options are extremely limited compared to Medieval Warfare. While the game is a fun distraction now and then, things like this and the lack of TO completely limit its long term appeal. Hopefully new content gets added, and fast, or I’m predicting a lot of empty servers in the near future.



  • “The player count and map size work fine. TBS are also introducing small and medium versions of all the maps just for this.”

    Just chiming in here. Smaller versions of the maps are already there. They are on most of the official server rotations.

    Adding _small or _medium after the name opens them. They also show up on the vote list at the end of the round with their size distinction.

    viewtopic.php?f=103&t=24394&p=206685#p206685



  • @Andrew:

    “The player count and map size work fine. TBS are also introducing small and medium versions of all the maps just for this.”

    Just chiming in here. Smaller versions of the maps are already there. They are on most of the official server rotations.

    Adding _small or _medium after the name opens them. They also show up on the vote list at the end of the round with their size distinction.

    http://www.tornbanner.com/forums/viewto … 85#p206685

    This was a great addition, thanks for the clarification.



  • LMB spam isn’t bad. The fools who do that generally die. Stabs and overheads work as well. LMBs are pretty easy to parry.

    I only see LMB spam when a group is out numbered by a larger group. Or he one crazy guy in two even teams who rushes forward mashing LMB. He usually died as if his team is concerned about their own saftey they don’t want to be near a team mate who will hit them.

    To be honest I see more stabs than LMB.

    And archer having more melee options than the ninja. A sword, a dagger and a spear. And the sword and dagger are rather similar. Ninja gets a larger more flexible sword, some awesome claws, a weird high damage pick type weapon and a super duper boop stick. 4 completely different weapons. They play differently. All daggers played the same. All archer swords including the cudgel played the same and very similar to the daggers. And the spears more or less play the same. Ninja has more variation then most of the other classes in the game.

    Vikings didn’t really use sword much at all. It was actually mostly spears and axes. So I can understand one sword.

    For the spartan they got rather desperate as they don’t really use anything. Southern Greeks dot web have dedicated swordsmen. The falcata is actually an Iberian sword that was invented in parallel with the kopis they aren’t actually linked as previously thought. Massalia (now Marseille it was a Greek colony) and Iberia didn’t have contact until both weapons were invented. The short spear was also added late alpha as they didn’t have variation.

    They can’t just make up weapons. They already went as far as using weapons from all over history or using weapons from other people in the same period.

    And how are they gonna implement 6 team TO? You want TO do what I do. Play MW.



  • @lemonater47:

    And how are they gonna implement 6 team TO?

    They don’t, is there some rule that every game of Deadliest Warrior needs six teams? I’d be perfectly happy if they just ported MW’s objective maps over.



  • @Mockingbirch:

    @lemonater47:

    And how are they gonna implement 6 team TO?

    They don’t, is there some rule that every game of Deadliest Warrior needs six teams? I’d be perfectly happy if they just ported MW’s objective maps over.

    Well you could probably did a way in the SDK to do that.



  • @Flippy:

    #7: LMB spam sucks, and rarely works. It only works sometimes because people forget there’s a parry mechanic. Also it’s a new game and the noobs come. Eventually the noobs will get better and use more overheads and stabs. (They already use plenty from what I’ve seen) Also mindless comboing and missed swings…I fuck people who do that. So do any good players. It is very easy to punish missed swings…you just let them miss, then attack. Also, good footwork is just as important as it was in MW, if not more so because of the speeds. I’ve won a 1v5 with Ninja before with good footwork. That whole con is moot.

    While I appreciate how you are not intentionally flaming me - im afraid im going to have to empty both barrels on this, because you are definitely indirectly implying that my criticism of the combat system stems from my own lack of ability.

    Perhaps that I am a ‘noob’, because I find that LMB is has easily the best overall usefulness/profile as an attack, considering three things - speed of attacks/ease of hitting/damage dealt. To elaborate, It is **by far **easiest to land, still very fast (fast enough to hit trade any of the other attacks thrown at roughly the same time) and still does strong damage. Is this really debatable?

    Have you ever played for a team in CMW? Call me elitist but, if you want to make speculation about me as a player, I want to know which team you played for :P. As for Lemon, Oceana pretty much never even had competitive play so, I dont require an answer. ;).

    Perhaps I wasnt clear when I say ‘spam’. It probably looks like I mean wildly repeatedly clicking lmb while running at enemies brainlessly - thats not difficult to deal with, no. Whereas I meant ‘spam’ to be referring more to generally using the LMB attack the majority of the time, albeit whilst paying attention to timing - and being precise with it.

    Im careful with my timing, but in DW I’ve (along with everyone else) been using LMB most of the time - because its often the best option, especially as an initial attack. If I land the attack without a hit trade, ill then usually use stabs and overheads as second attacks in a combo, otherwise the risk of missing the attack and receiving an LMB for my trouble is too high to really bother with.

    –---------------------------------------

    Movement. Because you move so much faster now, using movement to dodge attacks is easier - simples. Because of slow footwork in CMW, you had to be more precise because every inch counted when you were timing swing speeds and distances, whereas in DW you can dance around all over the place without too much precision and avoid attacks with relative ease - again why LMB is the best option for landing attacks on these wriggling opponents that aren’t facing you. I rest my case.

    Alas, to confirm I am not a total fool - thanks to the lovely statistics feature, I can also point out that for DW I have 338 kills and 90 deaths overall in the final version, with 140 duel wins to 30 losses, all the while not even playing the game seriously. Yeah - I played the beta more and ive hardly played the final game much overall, but frankly I’m so bored by it that I have no desire to play it any more - either.



  • @magilla:

    i’m somewhat inclined to agree with you… i think that a lot of the appeal in mw’s combat is lost within dw. playing for a while in dw seems like it will be a much more diminishing return. succeeding, and becoming better at the game does not have the same thrill, and i don’t see myself sinking so many hours into this one. the air is quirky, the feel almost comical. the fast pace delivers an arcade-like feel. much of the intensity is lost.

    This sums up how I feel really. I had so much fun progressing and getting better at the vanilla game despite its flaws, but here it just feels meh.



  • @Triumphant:

    @magilla guerrilla:

    i’m somewhat inclined to agree with you… i think that a lot of the appeal in mw’s combat is lost within dw. playing for a while in dw seems like it will be a much more diminishing return. succeeding, and becoming better at the game does not have the same thrill, and i don’t see myself sinking so many hours into this one. the air is quirky, the feel almost comical. the fast pace delivers an arcade-like feel. much of the intensity is lost.

    This sums up how I feel really. I had so much fun progressing and getting better at the vanilla game despite its flaws, but here it just feels meh.

    He doesn’t feel this way because DW is a worse game, it’s because he was new when he played MW. when chivalry came out, all of us were noobs (barring some AoC players - but we had to get used to comboing, feinting).

    When you play DW and compare the experience to MW and say well it doesn’t feel like im getting better…it’s because you are familiar with the combat system. Look at every “3” in every sequel. Modernwarfare 3, Assassin’s creed 3, Battlefield 3, Gears of war 3. They get the low reviews because People are familiar with the gameplay. To say that DW doesn’t offer the same amount of skill increase is silly.

    I personally feel there is huge progression in the game. Particularly because of the variety of classes and how they play. Playing spartan is a whole different story to a knight, or a ninja.



  • Turd,

    Flippy plays for Tempest in CMW. Want to scrim us some time? ;)



  • @Mystikkal:

    Turd,

    Flippy plays for Tempest in CMW. Want to scrim us some time? ;)

    DID YOU SAY SCRIM?! I WANNA SCRIM >:D



  • He doesn’t feel this way because DW is a worse game, it’s because he was new when he played MW. when chivalry came out, all of us were noobs (barring some AoC players - but we had to get used to comboing, feinting).

    When you play DW and compare the experience to MW and say well it doesn’t feel like im getting better…it’s because you are familiar with the combat system. Look at every “3” in every sequel. Modernwarfare 3, Assassin’s creed 3, Battlefield 3, Gears of war 3. They get the low reviews because People are familiar with the gameplay. To say that DW doesn’t offer the same amount of skill increase is silly.

    I personally feel there is huge progression in the game. Particularly because of the variety of classes and how they play. Playing spartan is a whole different story to a knight, or a ninja.

    sol, please refrain from speaking about my mindset as though you are viewing it introspectively. in other words; do not put words in my mouth.

    this is no matter of nostalgia; this is me looking forward at the future of dw. with mw, i felt the intensity–the grit. every individual battle was methodical and medium-paced. death became almost unacceptable. in the era before most of the true competitive players abandoned ship, i came to find that the game had no diminishing return. after some questionable changes, however, the game’s skill ceiling began to lower, adapting to reconcile the frustration of newer, less experienced players. the interest in competition died with this, but the game retained a fragment its intensity (for me.) i still feel tested at times when i play.

    with dw, i find myself just starting to… not care. dw has no competitive potential, or spirit at its core. it is largely comedic, more parody than expansion to its distant cousin mw. it is fun to jump on for a bit, hack and slash at high speed. it is interesting to look at the different classes, test your skills. but ultimately what am i playing towards? even when topping the leaderboard, i simply don’t care about performance in this game. plenty of people don’t.

    it is fun to jump on for a bit, hack and slash at high speed… and then i log off, but i don’t think about it or wonder if i got better. i don’t feel satisfied when i use throwing weapons or sprint around people’s backs at lightning speed, lmb wildly to great effect. 90% of the time, i feel like a jerk playing the game.

    what do we have left? mw, a shard of what it once was and what it could have been, and dw, this alternate-universe expansion, bereft of the soul that made chivalry what it was.

    my $0.02.



  • i agree,the sad thing is when a company release a good product and then the next one is worse and it’s happening often lately



  • @Mystikkal:

    Turd,

    Flippy plays for Tempest in CMW. Want to scrim us some time? ;)

    Oh, NA. Assumed you were EU!

    Im sure you WOULD be desperate to scrim someone! I cant imagine theres many of those going around these days. You prolly already know that most of the successful EU teams are disbanded due to the poor prognosis for the future of chiv, save for a couple that remain - cant imagine its much different in NA? Barren wasteland out there now.

    I guess we could argue about skill etc etc but, the only evidence worth looking at is that probably near 80% the people that were interested in the competitive side of this game have virtually all left, and its not because the game is getting better. Its not my word on yours, or my skill on yours - its the truth of whats happened.

    Continue enjoying DW I guess, if you truly believe the combat system to be an improvement then im happy for you, and sad that I cant bring myself to feel the same.

    Also, magilla guerilla is pretty much bang on aligned with my thoughts really. Sol - if this expansion was supposed to breathe life into a game we were all growing ‘bored of’, then its failed, surely?

    I loved MW, the thing that started to make me lose interest was not necessarily boredom - it was the knowledge of its grim future, that was going no-where but down. The sad truth.



  • Turd, you are correct. The competitive scene in NA is dead as well. Even more dead after the last Tourney. There is literally no one to scrim against. It’s a shame that TB has ignored a game that had so much potential. The worst part about it all…. silence from them. Seems like I 2 will need to start looking for a new game… its a shame, loved my chiv


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