Longsword in the competive scene



  • What’s up with it? (Not the most constructive way to begin a topic, but still)

    I’ve noticed that Knights going from around rank 20 to rank 40 pretty much all switch to the Longsword from the Sword of War.
    For me the Longsword had always felt too average. It was slow, but also not slow enough to open any REAL dragging potential(or so I thought).
    It’s strong, but definitely not the main powerhouse in the Knight’s arsenal.
    For me, the SoW was always better and the cost of almost every class requiring an extra hit was absolutely worth it.
    It strikes fast, it’s stab is stronger, faster, and has more reach than it’s swing, and it’s counterattack times are ridiculously fast.

    Now as I try to convert back to the Longsword and I see all those experts doing hilarious 360 stuff and whatnot I cannot help but wonder… how? Mouse sensitivity is locked during a swing, nobody has a desktop/mouse pad 10 meters wide and the sword itself just feels slightly too fast to fully rotate around with.

    Is it even possible to do the same without completely breaking the game’s feel by setting your FOV to 160, setting mouse sensitivity to 200 and all that stuff?



  • It has HUGE drag potential, given that it’s overhead release time is the same as the messer’s. With that, you can start your OH looking down and drag up. If the oponent doesn’t parry your look down, you simply let it hit looking down, since the windup time is much lower then the messer’s windup.
    The down side is hit trades. If you drag too much, the oponent sometimes will just atack you, and the longsword doesn’t do enough damage in hit trades to be that effective (like the maul, pole axe, messer, bearded axe and others).


  • Global Moderator

    Maybe its because people have different playstyles and everything.

    Me I hated the SOW from the beginning and still don’t use it.

    I used to use the claymore but after the patch that made it go at light speed I changed to the greatsword. I couldn’t use it. Too fast for me.

    And many people think the messer is better than the SOW and longsword.

    Everyone plays the game differently.



  • Longsword been balanced, some think that it been nerfed too much but I will hold whatever I think about it to myself.
    The dragging you can do with it is pretty good and it has more reach than sow. Sow was way too good before it got nerfed. People dropped it after that even though I don’t understand why, it still can two hit every class but knights. The 360 attacks with longsword, I can’t really explain. I can do it but not where I spin 5 times. The restriction on how much you can turn as you attack just does not let me do that. Yet if you just want to overhead and then turn your back to someone and hit them, thats easy.



  • I would say that the longsword has been nurfed….to the ground.
    The messer is ok if you’re playing against a bunch of scrubs, but if one of those players is decent at what ever other loadout he’s using you’re done.
    Occasionally you come up against a player who has perfected the art of turning 270degrees away from you so that his messer swing is epically slow and the animations for the sword are strange looking, but its not hard to combat. Sure the messer can mix it up with the occasional instant look-down overhead, but that doesn’t win the day.

    The long sword’s hit to kill ratio is stupid, your better off using ANY other weapon except for a couple of the daggers, but even then at least with the daggers they’re so fast that you can “wail on them”. I’ve tried hard with the longsword, many hours done, and its not horrible in 1v1 but you are still carrying a liability.
    (PS i’m talking about longsword when used with the shield)



  • Longsword is in a strange state. I was at first a Messer guy, did quite well with it. I mastered the art of spinning and winning. Not even MaA’s stood a chance! But relying solely on drags got boring. I am now a SoW guy. I like the speed and the stab on it. Feints are difficult to read on it as well.

    Whenever I try using the LS though I just feel…weak. It’s difficult to describe. Whenever I used it in a scrim I felt useless. I mean on paper is should be better than both the Messer and the SoW. It drags just as well as the Messer, while having more damage than the SoW, with longer range to boot. It SHOULD be better, but it just doesn’t feel better. I suppose you could compare it to forks, spoons and sporks. The LS is kind of like the spork. It’s in the middle where it’s not very good at either ability it’s trying to perform.



  • The problem with the longsword is that its very easy to either interrupt its windup or force a hit trade. Considering its awful hit to kill ratio you won’t win many fights this way (i’m taking about 1h longsword + shield).
    What this means is that you have to very slowly and carefully manipulate your enemy into a situation where the above does not happen and that is generally not a big issue in a duel where you have more time, but in any other situation your screwed. (Personally i enjoy the challenge this presents by giving my foe death by 1000 cuts…)
    So really the 1long sword is one of the worst weapon choices you could make. Its slow, doesn’t do much damage, and the one thing that it is meant to do, the advantage of its length, is nullified by the fact that it is so slow and can be interrupted or forced hit traded with. Leaving a weapon that is pretty useless, especially when time is limited (not to mention the other secret limitation, stamina, which will be gone quickly unless your epic at stamina management).



  • Yeah, I was afraid that while it might seem as an “average” all-around weapon, in the end it just didn’t really excel at anything.Now 1 week of dragging, reverse-overheading and dancing with only the longsword later, I gotta say that I might have been right.Good for the knights who are good with it and all, but I just feel that except for the reverse-overhead(which Longsword is really suitable with) there aren’t many techniques you can use with this weapon.The Messer is IMO still a decent weapon, but does only 60 Pierce damage with it’s stab. It can still be used as an unpredictable surprise attack/interruption but nearly throwing away 1 of 3 core attacks seems ridiculous to me when I’m talking about a sword.But now at rank 36 I’d say it’s about time to pick a weapon I’m TRULY comfortable with and try to stick with it am I to get any better in this game.As vanguard I always preferred the Zweihander and I think it’d be best I don’t make sudden overhauls to the Claymore again.As for Knight I’ll just give the Longsword another go. I guess I just really like this weapon overall, despite it’s lack of excelling stats.
    –—

    (Also great that after the time I spent trying to make this post readable the forum just crops it all into a giant pile of characters… -.-)



  • I think class movement speed alone has a large effect on how affective a weapon such as the longsword is.

    Archer and maa class forward movement speed + length of the shortsword is more effective then the knight class forward movement speed + length of longsword.

    What this means is that if both players have the same amount of skill, with above load outs, the knight is going to have to wait for his opponent to make a mistake. Due to the way stamina works at the moment the knight can’t play very aggressively (as he should be doing) and manhandle his target because its far to easy to run out of stamina.

    If the knight can manhandle his target then i’d say that the opponents probably were not of equal skill.

    Not to mention even a lowly opponent can just run away from the knight or stall for time and gain reinforcements.



  • You might hate me for saying this Yak, but you could always just feint them and trick them into making a mistake. :P As much as you may hate the idea of relying on feints, you should remember that you are fighting an archer. I assure you the archer does not have a problem shooting you in the shins from 50 meters away then running away laughing just to do it again. You should have no qualms with using every underhanded trick in the book to split his shit eating grin with your longsword. See how feints can be useful? While not always necessary, they are good to have available when there is little chance of either person having a weapon dragged past their parry.

    And if that is really off limits, then broadsword/norse Knight secondary are always an option to match the speed/reach of an archer melee.



  • @DokB:

    You might hate me for saying this Yak, but you could always just feint them and trick them into making a mistake. :P As much as you may hate the idea of relying on feints, you should remember that you are fighting an archer. I assure you the archer does not have a problem shooting you in the shins from 50 meters away then running away laughing just to do it again. You should have no qualms with using every underhanded trick in the book to split his shit eating grin with your longsword. See how feints can be useful? While not always necessary, they are good to have available when there is little chance of either person having a weapon dragged past their parry.

    And if that is really off limits, then broadsword/norse Knight secondary are always an option to match the speed/reach of an archer melee.

    If i have committed to using the longsword and shield for a full round then i prefer to use some of the other tools at my disposal.
    -fly kick
    -jump up and reach over to stab in the head.
    -my primary option - flank and stab in the side
    -deliberately stab wide and drag the stab back on target at the last moment
    -win on timing
    -cross diagonally to the weapon side of my target whilst swinging. (foot work)
    -shield bash and then jump over their attack
    -put away the shield and use the long sword 1 handed so i can riposte.

    With all those options i prefer to not feint, but the reason is because i feel it takes more time to feint then it does to execute a good attack and use good timing.

    Funny you mention it, my last 20-30 hours have been spent on the broadsword - knight. The broadsword is more effective in TO then the longsword in terms of no. of kills. I still find the longsword can be ok for damage : damage taken if you happy to have all of your kills stolen.

    The norse sword has a powerful stab but i don’t rate it over all, imo broadsword is better.



  • I find the SoW wielded with 2 hands is great, two stabs to kill a vanguard I’ll take that. The speed of it is the best part.

    However, I find that with sword and board the Longsword seems to be better, mainly because I find I stab less whilst using a shield, not sure why but I do. Since I’m stabbing far less the SoW isn’t as good in that situation, although the alt-slash with the SoW tends to land more often then it should. It has surprising speed and reach with alt-attack.

    The Messer is also good with a board



  • @Toll:

    I find the SoW wielded with 2 hands is great, two stabs to kill a vanguard I’ll take that. The speed of it is the best part.

    However, I find that with sword and board the Longsword seems to be better, mainly because I find I stab less whilst using a shield, not sure why but I do. Since I’m stabbing far less the SoW isn’t as good in that situation, although the alt-slash with the SoW tends to land more often then it should. It has surprising speed and reach with alt-attack.

    The Messer is also good with a board

    I’ve made the switch from LS and kite to SoW and kite over the last 70ish hours, and there’s no way in hell I’m going back. The dragged alt slash to stab is so useful, and with the right footwork it can get around nearly any defense. The LS is still a decent weapon, but for sword and board the SoW delivers the speed you need to prevent yourself from losing the inevitable stamina battle.



  • Hmm,
    I’ve had success with the SoW and kite shield before and i like the stabs on it, but prefer to try and make use of the swing on the longsword or its overhead. the longsword and board is just underwhelming. When people are afk in duels i stab people in the head to see how many stabs it takes to kill a knight, for example, and its like 3-4stabs….wtf.
    Anyway, i’ve had very good success with the broadsword and kite shield (knight), you can overpower players quite effectively, the stab is good, the overhead is FAST, the damage is good on all attacks, and the hit to kill ratio is good because you can often get in a few hits in a row.
    I do feel for my knightly foes who pass without landing a single hit or sometimes get no swings off at all.



  • @giantyak:

    Hmm,
    I’ve had success with the SoW and kite shield before and i like the stabs on it, but prefer to try and make use of the swing on the longsword or its overhead. the longsword and board is just underwhelming. When people are afk in duels i stab people in the head to see how many stabs it takes to kill a knight, for example, and its like 3-4stabs….wtf.
    Anyway, i’ve had very good success with the broadsword and kite shield (knight), you can overpower players quite effectively, the stab is good, the overhead is FAST, the damage is good on all attacks, and the hit to kill ratio is good because you can often get in a few hits in a row.
    I do feel for my knightly foes who pass without landing a single hit or sometimes get no swings off at all.

    I use broad and kite in scrims, mainly to minimise the chance of stabbing through and tagging a team mate, and I do agree that broad/norse with shield is one of the most potent knight setups available. The length you get with the SoW though is perfect for running down MaA.



  • good point, i have noticed that the broadsword often falls just short when you stab and the MAA leaps backwards, but then they often manage that with the longsword and board too.



  • Wait wait…Longsword= slow??? It’s way faster than the Greatsword, but when I kill someone with my greatsword, they always complain about it being way too fast.



  • The LS is amazing in Chiv+. ^_^



  • @Peter:

    Wait wait…Longsword= slow??? It’s way faster than the Greatsword, but when I kill someone with my greatsword, they always complain about it being way too fast.

    As far as windups go slash is the same, LS is .025 seconds slower on the overhead, and GS is .1 slower on the stab. GS has faster combo times by .02 though, so they are pretty close to identical. I personally think the GS could use to be a hair slower and maybe even cut down on the release time for the stab. You can literally stab over someone’s head, wait for their parry to drop and just pull it down. lol.



  • @giantyak:

    Hmm,
    I’ve had success with the SoW and kite shield before and i like the stabs on it, but prefer to try and make use of the swing on the longsword or its overhead. the longsword and board is just underwhelming. When people are afk in duels i stab people in the head to see how many stabs it takes to kill a knight, for example, and its like 3-4stabs….wtf.
    Anyway, i’ve had very good success with the broadsword and kite shield (knight), you can overpower players quite effectively, the stab is good, the overhead is FAST, the damage is good on all attacks, and the hit to kill ratio is good because you can often get in a few hits in a row.
    I do feel for my knightly foes who pass without landing a single hit or sometimes get no swings off at all.

    Try using shields against good players.
    It’s unviable, to say the least.