Blocking/Parry changes?

  • Hi there, long time fan of Chivalry. Since last week my friends and I noticed a distinct difference in MW’s blocking system and the updated blocking system in DW. I haven’t been playing the newest update as long as some, so I may be missing some information or key changes in gameplay that reinvent the way I’ve always enjoyed playing the game. But we can tell that there is a distinct difference that doesn’t settle with us.

    Coming from a game design background, I believe that, when it comes to mechanics, less is more. The blocking system in MW was simple but versatile, making it a solid mechanic that drove the combat and made it so intriguing. Blocking was instant, lasting a fair duration for all weapons and classes, and made the dynamic of swordplay intense and dynamic.

    With the new update since the beta of DW, it’s since been encumbered with extra variables, making the blocking system less effective and more complex.
    Initiating a block takes longer (as opposed to nearly instantaneous), making blocks significantly less effective, if you can get one in. I find that now, rather than reading my opponent’s actual actions, I have to anticipate (guess) their actions before they attack. This enables opponents to rapidly attack with great success of landing blows because of the stun factor on a player that can’t ward him off; a server can be dominated by a player that has figured out this exploitation. Since the blocking system is ineffectual, all they have to do is get in the first strike. Because you are stunned when you are attacked, and there is now a delay to initiating a complete block, it’s now nearly impossible to break free.

    Block duration is also an issue. Some classes now have a significantly lowered duration of their block, and combined with the player now having to anticipate incoming attacks, it even more difficult to get in a successful block.

    I do like that you can now block projectiles. Well, when I manage to nail a successful block.

    I’m no expert on this, perhaps someone can explain to me why the new system is better and that I’m playing it wrong. I feel that the newest system was a design oversight with not enough testing to determine if it was fun or a change that enhanced the player experience. If it was a way to try and balance the classes, I feel that messing with a mechanic that should be universal across the board was a bad decision and game breaking. My friends and I have had little fun playing DW and have gone back to MW. Overall I’ve found the new experience of DW to be less satisfying or compelling since the beta due to this reason.
    I’d dearly love to see a return to the classic block system. Thoughts?

  • Blocks are as instantaneous as ever, I don’t know what you’re talking about there. And I haven’t had any trouble breaking free from a combo. Maybe it’s just that you can’t find as many servers near you in DW? Try playing a bit defense training in training mode, and time your parries as late as possible.

    Block duration seems to differ for some weapons, the Sarissa would be the most obvious example, and I’m all in favor of giving different weapons different parry windows. Makes combat a bit deeper and versatile, and I would have liked to see more of this.

  • @B4RK:

    Blocks are as instantaneous as ever

    Blocks are not as instantaneous as ever, as just the last patch notes mention that shields no longer block until their animation plays. This is similar to past events where Torn Banner has made more of the functions server side. I assume this is to ward cheating that is extremely easy to do with client side interactions, but have no doubt that every time this happens it makes the game feel worse and worse. The more delays there are in a game that based around reactions, the worse it’s going to feel.
    Torn Banner needs to decide where the line is and stick to it. I think that most of the changes with Chivalry that older players try to verbally describe as negative are actually changes to the client-server interactions and they don’t realize it because it’s not as visible to the end users. This makes for a lot of frustration as players log in and aren’t able to do what they were before. Personally I’d rather have a few more cheaters, with the responsibility being put on players in the game to ban them rather than changing invisible game mechanics.

  • I have no idea what you’re talking about here. The blocks feel just as instantaneous as they were in MW. The only weapon in the game that has what sounds like you’re talking about is the Knight’s SoW, which currently has a bug that causes its parry to be very slow. Maybe that bug somehow spread to all the weapons on your client. Try reinstalling the game.

  • Err, I went a bit off topic.

    I actually don’t have any idea what specific change he’s talking about either. To my knowledge nothing has recently happened. The change I was talking about is currently in beta:

    Gameplay Fixes

    • Death animations now properly play

    • Sticky projectile (throwing weapons, arrows) now properly display on surfaces

    • Fixed death camera jittery behaviour

    • Dropped weapons now properly show

    • Shields dropped now properly customized

    • Fixed shield attachments disappearing

    • Shield blocking now requires the animation to play before a block can occur

    • Strafing while sprinting no longer causes the player to stutter

    • Ammo can now properly be retrieved from corpses

    • Blood splatter on weapons will now properly display

    • Spawn time Added for every 20 dmg done to team members

    • Players can now retaliate after being hit while controlling the ballista

    • Fixed an issue with interrupting reloading the crossbow

    • Fixed an issue where staggered players take no damage from projectiles

    • Firepot now properly damages in a restricted area after thrown directly at a player

    • Fixed an issue when a player picks up a torch immediately after throwing one

    • Dying with a torch properly shows the torch as the correct size

    • Fixed 3rd person camera going through walls

    • Jumping is now possible with no stamina

    • Max length combo now ends correctly

    • Players are now able to customize the pavise shield

    Makkon, can you go into a little more detail about what you’re currently experiencing and how it differs from your “classic” MW experience?

  • Even if that bug did manage to spread, it shouldn’t affect gameplay since only the animation is slowed.
    Just sayin’ ^^

  • I think the major issue here is that he’s speaking from an animation standpoint, believing that the animation controls the parry box activation. A lot of weapon parry animations in DW feel very sluggish compared to MW, especially the bugged SoW. However, the parry box activation is still the exact same, even if the animation doesn’t sync up with it well. Certain weapons in particular such as the sarissa, have a shorter parry window than other weapons, so there is some variability between weapon parry windows (that’s the only I’m aware of).

    There is also the change of wind-up / release times, making weapons generally faster to reach their target and less draggable than in MW. See the ninjato, claw, shank, or saber riposte speeds. This means parry activation needs to occur sooner to compensate for lag time and individual response time.

    The shield changes from the update are not in effect yet, and are currently testable on the Chivalry Beta client only.

  • The change I was talking about is currently in beta:

    Why I mentioned ^

    Some weapons do have different windows like you mention, and some animations are “sluggish”, but weapons had different animations in MW as well. I don’t think that weapon parry animations are significantly worse in DW personally, but I agree that it may be what he’s getting at.

  • I can try reinstalling the game, but it sounds to me like it’s our perception of the effectiveness of blocking is due to the different timing in the animation. We’re all still fuming on skype about it, most of my friends aren’t convinced even though the update notes are clear as day right there. It’s difficult to articulate into words; one of my friends played MW right after a rage inducing session of DW, and he attested that there was a distinctly different feel in combat.
    But I’m baffled that in the pre-release beta it felt different. It felt faster, more responsive. Before public release I felt like I was in control, and that when I messed up a block it was my fault. Now it feels like blocking is accidental if I get one in, and instead of engaging in head to head combat we have all just resorted to running. Lots of running. And now that everyone can run the same speed, that’s a waste of time too.

    Who knows, maybe it’s lag. Either way, something is off. I’m burned out of DW, but if we pick it up again sometime we’ll dedicate the evening to figuring out what exactly feels different. Thanks for your input.

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