Best tactic in melee range as maa vs. vg/knight



  • hi

    i would like to know what to do as maa once i manage to get in melee range vs. a vanguard or a knight who is wielding a 2-handed weapon.
    most people say that the maa has a clear advantage once he is in melee-range but it often happens that i get blocked and attacked or just attacked and i die.

    so i guess the options are:

    1.) spam mixed combos (slashes, overheads, thrusts)
    if i do this, i often get blocked and killed afterwards.

    2.) “spam” normal mixed attacks, without comboing them together.

    • works until i get blocked.

    3.) block his attacks and counterattack.

    • might work, but wouldnt work after the next patch i guess since u are getting heavy penalties if u block heavy weapons with light ones.

    4.) feint to provoke a block, attack right after.

    • works only IF the enemy is NOT attacking at the same time as you feint. do pretty unreliable.

    5.) do nothing, until you see that your enemy is about to attack. then either dodge or duck, dodge if he stabs and duck if he slashes. after succesfully avoided the attack, counterattack.

    • very effective, but pretty hard to pull off.

    6.) do nothing, until you see that your enemy is about to attack. then attack and interrupt his attack because you are much faster. repeat.

    • can be hard to master, but seems effective.

    which of this options are the best in your opinion?
    and do you think this are all the options? if not, feel free to add some!



  • If you notice that a swing is coming, duck and while you’re ducking, attack. This only works for that one time usually since, unless your opponent is a bad player, that player will not use swings against you after that.

    What I like to do is to keep distance. Dodge ability is your best friend: Get in, get out. So I keep the distance, then tap forward whilst starting my stab/overhead. This sometimes works those first few times so I can’t really help you in tips of finishing your opponent since it requires many hits from any MaA weapon…

    EDIT: Also, the better you are in blocking in general, the better. Obviously. If you can block 9/10 and your opponent blocks 7/10… You know. Not just in a MaA vs. VG/K situation, in all aspects of melee fighting. I’ve fought multiple underdog situations against 2-3 enemies where I didn’t have time to attack, all I could is block until teammates run to the rescue. :D



  • @sadnhappy:

    If you notice that a swing is coming, duck and while you’re ducking, attack. This only works for that one time usually since, unless your opponent is a bad player, that player will not use swings against you after that.

    i already mentioned this tactic

    What I like to do is to keep distance. Dodge ability is your best friend: Get in, get out. So I keep the distance, then tap forward whilst starting my stab/overhead. This sometimes works those first few times so I can’t really help you in tips of finishing your opponent since it requires many hits from any MaA weapon…

    i dont think that keeping distance is a viable tactic vs 2-hand users. quite the opposite, they WANT you at distance so they can use their range as advantage.

    EDIT: Also, the better you are in blocking in general, the better. Obviously. If you can block 9/10 and your opponent blocks 7/10… You know. Not just in a MaA vs. VG/K situation, in all aspects of melee fighting. I’ve fought multiple underdog situations against 2-3 enemies where I didn’t have time to attack, all I could is block until teammates run to the rescue. :D

    i already said that blocking as an maa will very soon be a bad idea since the next patch will implement much stamina loss if u block a heavy weapon with a small one. please read my post more carefully.



  • well, i play mostly vanguard and my favourite victim is the MAA i have to say :D you should try to get in go zerker on his face and outplay your opponent regarding the blocks, kicks, attack timings



  • There is no best tactic. Do everything you mentioned, mix it up.

    Also, a mistake I often see with feinting is players feint and then immediately attack without waiting to read their opponents’ reaction. This often leads to them eating a counterattack because the other player either anticipated the feint or was going to trade a hit anyway (knights love to trade hits). The window for blocks is actually longer than you might think when you’re a man-at-arms, because your weapons attack so fast. Often if you just feint and immediately attack again, even if the enemy blocked your feint his block will still be going when your attack hits. The best thing to do when you feint as a MaA is to wait a moment and actually see what your enemy does. If he’s attacking, dodge around him and hit him, or block and counter - if he’s blocking, wait until the block is about to end and then hit him with a fast attack. This can often lead to you getting ANOTHER free hit on the enemy if they block again after your attack hits - and if they panic, you can hit them a third time for the kill (unless you already killed them in two).

    Also, never underestimate the power of jumping. Sometimes it’s better to create distance, and jumping back while parrying will make their weapon knockback push you back further, usually out of their range. Jumping forward into a kick will often allow you to open an enemy up for a quick attack - best used with the norse or broadsword because their stabs have the best range and speed of any MaA weapon; the other fast weapons (Falchion, hatchet, mace, holy water) are very short and often won’t reach an enemy you kick away. Finally, when you’re in really close, jumping to the side of an enemy followed by a dodge can be a great way to completely disorient someone playing in first person because it’ll put you behind them if you pull it off well. If they try to attack you when they see you jump, the decreased turn rate is often too much for them to hit you after you dodge - so you get a free attack, maybe even two if you have a very fast weapon.

    There are some weapons I wouldn’t actually recommend getting into point blank range against right now as a MaA. Those are the halberd and claymore for the VG, because their stabs start dealing damage very quickly up close and once you take a hit you’ll be knocked back and lose your momentum, which can be enough for them to turn the tables on you. The biggest threat to a MaA up close is a knight wielding any of the MaA swords, or a onehanded Sword of War, because he can always trade hits with you using these fast weapons and win with his guaranteed 2 hit kill - since the War Axe and Mace had their damage reduced, the MaA has no way to kill a Knight in 2 hits. Never trade hits with a Knight as a MaA. The above also applies to any knight using a mace unless you’re using a broadsword or norse sword, in which case you can outrange the short maces and outspeed the morning star.

    Basically knights with MaA weapons destroy MaAs with their own weapons IMO. Still think they should take MaA weapons off the other classes and just give everyone daggers and shortsword/saber/cudgel as secondaries. But a knight or vanguard using their primaries have plenty of things a MaA can exploit - it’s all about using your mobility to your advantage, because it’s your biggest - in fact, only strength. You don’t have the long reach or the high armor or the giant shields, you have dodging and strafing and slightly better forward speed, which is admittedly harder to take advantage of but often more rewarding.



  • The MAA is the class I want to play most but is also the class I just cannot do anything with. It’s not uncommon for me to have 25 deaths and 3 kills as one. And yes, before you ask, I do use the tactics mentioned above.

    Even if I do manage to score a hit it’s pretty much pointless as it takes like 4 hits to kill a knight and 3 or so for a vanguard - and it only takes 2 to kill me (or 1 if it’s a big attack). Knights have more health, they do more damage, and contrary to what people keep saying, they actually very quickly with a 2H weapon. They also have impossible amounts of reach. I just CANNOT battle with one at all as a MAA.

    Even if I dodge backwards, if he takes a single step (which they usually do when you backpeddle) forward his sword can still hit me after I dodge. Even if I dodge and then go in for a hit, the knight/vanguard can still land a hit on me because they attack so fast and with so much reach.

    I want to love this class but I’m finding it literally unplayable. Myself and every other MAA on my team just end up being cannon fodder for the enemy. It’s hard to avoid 2H weapon users when they make up 3/4 of the enemy team.

    It’s so frustrating have to work my arse off JUST to land a hit on someone as a MAA meanwhile they don’t even have to try and they can rip my corpse to shreds in a microsecond.

    As of right now, there are basically only 3 classes in Chivalry.



  • I disagree entirely. The skill required for MaA is disproportionately high compared to the other classes, yes, but they’re very powerful once you can use them. Most games suffer from this to some degree, even relatively casual games like TF2 with the Scout - not surprising that it’s usually the light and mobile class that people have the most trouble with.

    Saying it takes 3/4 hits “minimum” to kill a VG or Knight is just wrong - it takes 2 overheads or stabs (depending on weapon) for a Vanguard in most cases; even the lowest damage MaA weapons will take them in two if you hit the head. Knights require at least 3 though, yes. If you’re using axes or maces, use the overhead - there’s little advantage to slashing, overhead does more damage and is easier to headshot with. If you’re using swords (excepting the falchion which is basically an axe), use stabs. Knights and Vanguards take substantially less damage from slashes, especially VGs who take about the same from stab attacks as the MaA does. If you’re consistently taking 3 or more hits to kill VGs, I suspect you’re slashing with the broad/norse sword, or using a lower damage weapon like the hatchet and not overheading/aiming for the head.

    I would suggest either practicing more with the MaA, or trying to pick it back up after you’re more familiar with the game in general.



  • Alright, I’ll try more slashes and overheads with the mace.

    However, the other major problem I had was actually getting up to my enemy, attacking, and getting out of the way again. Those 2H swords have so much reach that I don’t really have a lot of options to move around.

    Ok, those tactics helped. I got 12 kills and 5 deaths. A big improvement.

    Those 2H weapons have crazy reach though, very hard to actually get in close to land a hit. I also played as a Vanguard because my team had too many MAA’s for a few rounds, and the 2H weapons are not as “slow” as implied.



  • thank you sly, i will give it a try :)

    but why should i use “jump” and kick opposed to dodge and kick, and why should i “jump” to an enemies side, why not just dodge instead of jump?



  • On the contrary I’ve watched video , in which description the author claimed that Men-At-Arms is too easy & unballanced stronger than other melee classes …

    Also 1 hit should be an option for neck hits , maybe only overheads should be exception .
    If it is not already implemented .



  • Alright, I still can’t get this class to do anything other than die continuously.

    MAA are at a serious disadvantage when against anything other than another MAA. Those 2H weapons have such a huge reach and are so fast compared to what they are “supposed” to be (they can pretty much launch an attack immediately after losing a previous attack to parry.). Meanwhile the MAA is stuck with next to no armor and a “dodge” ability which can barely get them out of the way of those 2H swords.

    Been playing off and on between Vanguard and MAA today and the Vanguard was MUUUUUUUUUUCH easier to play. Why does the MAA even exist? What role does it fill? Against a huge 2H sword or axe a MAA is dead in no-time. Speed benefit? The vanguard’s 2H sword is just as quick and able as a 1H sword (and yes, I’ve played as a Vanguard). Mobility? All classes run at the same speed and the MAA’s dodge ability is just shorter than the length of a 2H weapon, meaning that if he’s close to you rather than a few feet - he’s going to still hit you regardless. Not to mention that you can’t dodge while sprinting - BUT the enemy can attack while sprinting, effectively making the dodge useless.

    I don’t see where this “MAA is overpowered” rubbish is coming from. I’m usually the only MAA on the entire server let alone anyone being OP as one. I know I’m not very good at this game but playing as a MAA is a catastrophic disadvantage to playing as a knight or vanguard. I can do average or even top the scoreboard as a Vanguard but as a MAA I get around 4 kills and 19 deaths. This class is useless.

    Edit:

    Well, I just had my team tell me to stop playing as MAA because I wasn’t doing anything for the team. I think that says quite a lot.



  • Just thought I’d add some input on this - I feel MAA is one of those classes that are very hard to master compared to every other class and once it’s mastered, it is a very annoying class to take on. I’m not just talking out of my ass here too, I have three good MAAs in RK, two of which are so good they exceedingly frustrate me as both a Knight and a Vanguard with 2H swords and they both use the Norse Sword which is relatively short. They pretty much dodge each attack I make and always strike me at the right time and they still parry effectively and counter too. I have even said MAA forward dodge is ridiculous and has to go, but I think I’m going to have to play a lot more defensive when it comes to heavy dodgers and force them to wear their own stamina down. We’ve been playing FFA mostly to get the most practice out of fighting multiple opponents and such and they will frequently get between 2:1 and 3:1 KD ratios, sometimes even topping myself and Sophax who run around with the Sword of War and Sophax can clean up an entire server of public players and he usually destroys me too. MAA is one of those classes you can’t just pick up and expect to do well with, as timing and precision means everything. If you ask me, MAA will probably come out as the master duelist class in the future, at least that’s my prediction, and is not as good (but still can be effective) in compacted player-rich environments; dodges and fast weapons can turn out to be a good trade off for survivability, it’s just how you use them.



  • i am one of those MAA’s from RK and while i am the worst one (because i started playing this game 2 weeks ago and havent played AoC) i already can see the huge potential this class has compared to the others. Its just a fact that the MAA class is considerebly stronger than any other class in the game IF you manage to play the class to its fullest potential. the reason is, if u manage to dodge an attack while at the same time being close to the enemy, you get a guaranteed hit while havent taken any damage. on top of that, after you have hit that u are in a good spot for further attacks because 2-hand users want to hold MMA’s at range so they can use their advantage of wielding a weapon with high range, while you as an maa want to be close to an enemy to be able to interrupt thei slow attacks with your fast weapons. I mean hands down, knights and VGs can do what they want, if you manage to dodge or duck their attacks they will get hit and die. vanguards die with 2 stabs from the norse sword (bodyhits) while knights are at 1 hp after 3 bodystabs.

    i hope you dont mind my bad english, i am from germany so i guess i constantly make some mistakes.



  • yesterday i was dueling a lot againts maa as a vanguard, i have to tell you he was pretty much my nightmare with the nord sword or whatever its called… basicly all he was doing is keeping distance, playing defensive and whenever there was a window for it, he dashed in and stabbed me in the blink of the eye… i tried pre-comboing, feinting, kicking none of them were good enough to beat him, most of the time he just stabbed me to death :c



  • @Martin:

    Just thought I’d add some input on this - I feel MAA is one of those classes that are very hard to master compared to every other class and once it’s mastered, it is a very annoying class to take on. I’m not just talking out of my ass here too, I have three good MAAs in RK, two of which are so good they exceedingly frustrate me as both a Knight and a Vanguard with 2H swords and they both use the Norse Sword which is relatively short. They pretty much dodge each attack I make and always strike me at the right time and they still parry effectively and counter too. I have even said MAA forward dodge is ridiculous and has to go, but I think I’m going to have to play a lot more defensive when it comes to heavy dodgers and force them to wear their own stamina down. We’ve been playing FFA mostly to get the most practice out of fighting multiple opponents and such and they will frequently get between 2:1 and 3:1 KD ratios, sometimes even topping myself and Sophax who run around with the Sword of War and Sophax can clean up an entire server of public players and he usually destroys me too. MAA is one of those classes you can’t just pick up and expect to do well with, as timing and precision means everything. If you ask me, MAA will probably come out as the master duelist class in the future, at least that’s my prediction, and is not as good (but still can be effective) in compacted player-rich environments; dodges and fast weapons can turn out to be a good trade off for survivability, it’s just how you use them.

    Agree , except for forward dodging (maybe we shall call it dashing , anyone ?) , which is OK & if the class is ballanced (will see) should not be THE master duelist class , but 1 of those classes .


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