My idea for new DLC.

  • Hey everyone,

    After the release f the deadliest warrior DLC, I found it interesting TBS didn’t include the Centurion as one of the characters. I thought it would be cool to have a DLC focusing on the Romans called:

    Chivalry:Conquest of Rome
    I thought that this would play out many scenarios in Britain when Rome invaded. It would include them fighting the tribes like the Iceni and other Germanic tribes, but could also include maps like the Teutoberg forest in which a whole legion was destroyed in a day. Other missions could be to assassinate Queen Boudica by storming their stronghold or assaulting the roman forums and looking to assassinate the emperor and his Praetorian guard. I think, however classed would need different names.

    Tribe class names-
    MAA- Tracker/ garbed in fur and leather with small sheets of chainmail. He could use short swords and axes. Nimble but weak.
    Vanguard- Billmen/ bearing rough plate mail sheets and chainmail. He could bear badly made Polarms. Moderately speedy.
    Knights- Housecarls- well armoured with shining metal armours. He would use greataxes and great swords like what would be used in the day. Very slow.
    Archer- Hunter/ long fur tunic and wielding a longbow or sling. (I am not sure how much crossbows or javelins were used) Very quickly moving.

    Roman names-
    MAA- Hastati- Could wear Lorica Hamata and use a roman spatha. Moderately moving. (That stuff was heavy :D)
    Vanguard- Principes- Wears part Lorica segmentata/Hamata and use a Lancea. Could throw Pilum. Slow moving.
    Knight- Legionary- Wears full lorica segmentata and galea. He could wear different helmets like ones of a centurion or Commander. Slightly slower than Principes.
    Archer- Sagittarii- only Lorica hamata and dons a recurve bow with bodkin points.

    This is just an idea I thought would be fun for people to play on.

    What so you guys think?

  • No more DLC. Fix the main game first.

  • Fair enough.

  • Or to be a tad more historically accurate to keep everyone happy you can do rome vs Carthage. Your way I’m afraid will put off anyone who knows a bit about the Romans. Rome vs barbarians would be hard to balance and keep people happy historically. The Germans were actually the least armoured out of all barbarians. The Celtic Gauls wore more armour. Now the Dacians who were barbarians to the south east of Germany and both of Greece. They could put up a fight against the Romans if you use the Dacians in the time of emperor Trajan.

    You have mixed and matched Romans from all over history. And haven’t used anywhere near historic barbarians. So I’m afraid your version of the game would only attack as hold the attention of stereotypes. No offence. Its supposed to be a game about the Romans but when its all completely wrong well you lose a large chunk of your audience.

    Rome vs Carthage would be the Easiest to do for torn banner to get right and to more or less balance. It would use the polybian army. So hastati, pricepes, Triarii and velites. Those would be your four classes. There were three Punic wars in a period of 100 years. 244BC? To 146BC. With variety you can cheat and use other weapons, shields and armour pieces from Italy. As in the times of the Punic wars (Roman wars with Carthage) the rest of Italy was not considered roman. Only people from rome itself were roman. So many Italians joined up without citizenship and either filled an hastati role or a Triarii role often as a sort of hoplite role (as Triarii were heavy spearmen) with a hoplon instead of a scutum. And these non roman hastati had a wider variety of armour and shields than normal hastati used by previous Italian occupiers like the Samnites and the Etruscan league. Many had smaller four sided shields that were some sort of rectangle. But they had a similar style and level of armour a chest plate strapped on with leather and sometimes a back plate with the two plates tied together with strong or leather. So you can have different stuff to make the classes unique.
    Carthage can have its classes named after were they came from. As Carthage had a mercenary army. So Iberian - MAA, Libyan - vanguard, sacred band - knight and Baeleric - archer. The sacred band were actual Carthaginians. Served as heavy hoplites. Iberian are from Spain and were the light infantry of Carthage’s army. Libyan troops filled swordsmen, spearmen and lighter hoplite roles and people from the Baeleric islands were slingers and skirmishers. The falcata was the main sword of their army that everyone used. The espasa too and that was even used by the Romans. Both made by Iberians.

    Rome vs Dacia. 84? (Eighty something) AD. Previously under a cowardly emperor rome was defeated by Dacia and had to pay them tribute in gold. Also roman craftsmen and military trainers were also sent to Dacians in tribute. That emperor got murdered and Trajan came to power. By this stage the Dacians were equipped by the Romans and knew their ways. So they were heavily armoured as well. Had good weapons an good training.
    Roman classes. A bit tricky. But we can use the power of Auxiliaries. Roman archer Auxalia were generally from Crete or Syria. Quite a few from Egypt and a few barbarian ones at times but not usually. Now the MAA equivalent. A bit tricky. Where do we want him to be from? As that would partially influence what he has. We could make him Germanic or Celtic and give him his faction cloths with roman leather armour over the top to give him that roman auxiliary look. Roman legionaries who wore chainmail often wore this leather over the top in the rain. But it was useful as light armour too. Now the last two classes I want to keep roman. But how to split the legionary up? I think I found a way. For the vanguard replacement we just have a legionary wearing chainmail armour only. They could have 2 versions of the gladius and a cavalry spatha. And a light and medium Pilum maybe having 2 medium or 3 light. Then we have the Evocati. A heavy legionary wearing the lorica segmentata. Now the evocati (evocatus is the singular) were roman soldiers who rejoined or stayed in the roman army after their time was up. So they had already servers 25 years and these guys were in their forties. They held a higher rank than a legionary and were usually made centurion. Many of them were held in the same regard as centurions. They can have an infantry spatha and heavy Pilum along with any other suitable weapon. The evocati often were wealthy and often used non regulation armour as well. And by that I mean having shin guards and forearm armour. Things normal legionaries did not have.
    The dacians looked and acted like barbarians. They used Greek and Thracian breastplates sometimes. Though that doesn’t look barbarians. But they had an assortment of leather armour and had Celtic chainmail which does look barbaric and they often had an assortment of home made metal “pads” and shin guards that they out on their shins, upper arm and forearm though everyone from Spain to Afghanistan did that. And the heaviest class the knight equivalent can have two handed weapons. Now in ancient times NO ONE used two handed weapons. Everyone had a shield. Everyone but the Thracians. They had a falx which is a polearm thingy and a two handed sword/cleaver thing that I don’t know the name of. Thrace is right next door to dacia. So for gameplay same you can give them some two handers. And a bunch of swords 1h axes and spears. Now I can think of what to call he Dacian barbarian classes. Hunter (archer) and Raider (MAA) is all I can come up with. They have to be better names that sound barbaric. I don’t know much about Dacian culture but researching that could help. They dabbled about with human sacrifice. Bloodsworn maybe? And maybe the heavy knight equivalent class can be a Noble. Like all barbarians they had a nobility system.

    But yeah. There’s my two roman ideas that would maximise happiness with a good balance of realism and gameplay that would attract a larger audience. There’s probably a billion mistakes because iphone. So if torn banner does decide to do something like this I’m the guy who can get it right as I have plenty more ideas where that came from.

    But ffix the game first. MW is or should be the priority now. Then they could redeem themselves with a new title LATER. Hopefully redeem themselves. DW needs a touch of work as well.

  • That is a pretty awesome idea! I would play the hell outta out. I am not such a great historian as I’m 14.

  • @Random_guy:

    That is a pretty awesome idea! I would play the hell outta out. I am not such a great historian as I’m 14.

    Doesn’t matter about age. I learn’t mine from games and double checking on the Internet. I also enjoy history doco’s. This series is pretty good. and this movie documentary is also a good one

  • Awesome, thanks for the suggestion!

  • what if we the community do it as a mod?

  • @DoomKnight:

    what if we the community do it as a mod?

    By then the game will likely be dead, and nobody would play it anyway.

  • @DoomKnight:

    what if we the community do it as a mod?

    It would take a really long time.

  • This does look like a good mod. Please condense the theme of it into 2 lines while I drink my coffee ta. I will run it by nurse Ratched,
    ops mr lemming as he/she often just crushes good ideas or the order.

  • @loin:

    This does look like a good mod. Please condense the theme of it into 2 lines while I drink my coffee ta. I will run it by nurse Ratched,
    ops mr lemming as he/she often just crushes good ideas or the order.

    What the hell’s in your coffee?

  • @lemonater47:

    What the hell’s in your coffee?

    I better check , as I don’t remember even posting on this mod discussion.

  • Anyway if there would be something like this I think Rome VS Dacia would be the most fun Roman combat game, that’s also more or less historically accurate. And it appeals to the stereotypes as well. Dacians are barbarians. But one of the few barbarians to use two handed weapons properly and had access to better weapons than other barbarians. Not to mention they also had roman training and roman siege equipmen. They had a couple other nasty looking weapons. Also the Romans at this time modified their armour a bit just for this campaign against the Dacians.

    Interesting Dacian weapons.
    Falx: this weapons was a two-handed polearm type weapon with a long curved blade on the end with a similar length to the handle usually. The sharp bit is on the inside of the curve. This weapons forced the only documented changes in rome armour. Some of those changes were only temporary but the reinforcement bars on the helmets stayed.

    Rhomaphaia: Mainly a Thracian weapon though used by a small extent by the Dacians. It was like the falx except the blade wasn’t curved it was straight or slightly curved inwards some finds have slight outwards curves as well.

    Sica: Essentially a one handed falx. A one handed curved sword with the sharp edge inside the curve. Though there archeological evidence that some of these were used two handed with lengthened handles. 2 handed variants of the Sica.

    And a bunch of other barbarian themed weapons. Some axes, other Celtic swords, spears access to longbows as well as shortbows, javelins and slings and any other weapons from the area you can find. Also there can be variations of things like the falx, rhomphaia and Sica.

    The Romans can have many swords. There wore 4 types of gladii and 2 kinds of spatha. Most common gladius was the Pompeii gladius. The other models were the Mainz Gladius the Fulham Gladius and the gladius Hispanus. They are all greatly described here. (Pretend the spoiler tags are working)

    ! Gladius Hispaniensis: Used from around 216 BC until 20 BC. Blade length ~60–68 cm (23.6 to 26.7 inches). Sword length ~75–85 cm (29.5 to 33.5 inches). Sword width ~5 cm (1.9 inches). This was the largest and heaviest of the gladii. Earliest and longest blade of the gladii, pronounced leaf-shape compared to the other forms. Max weight ~1 kg (2.2 pounds) for the largest versions, most likely a standard example would weigh ~900g/1.9 pounds (wooden hilt).
    ! Mainz Gladius: Mainz was founded as the Roman permanent camp of Moguntiacum probably in 13 BC. This large camp provided a population base for the growing city around it. Sword manufacture probably began in the camp and was continued in the city; for example, Gaius Gentilius Victor, a veteran of Legio XXII, used his discharge bonus on retirement to set up a business as a negotiator gladiarius, a manufacturer and dealer of arms.[21] Swords made at Mainz were sold extensively to the north. The Mainz variety is characterized by a slight waist running the length of the blade and a long point. Blade length ~50–55 cm (19.6 to 21.6 inches). Sword length ~65–70 cm (25.6 to 27.6 inches). Blade width ~7 cm (2.75 inches). Sword weight ~800g/1.76 pounds (wooden hilt).
    ! Fulham Gladius or Mainz-Fulham Gladius: The sword that gave the name to the type was dredged from the Thames near Fulham and must therefore date to a time after the Roman occupation of Britain began. That would have been after the invasion of Aulus Plautius in 43 AD. It was used until the end of the same century. It is considered the conjunction point between Mainz and Pompei. Some consider it an evolution or the same as the Mainz type. The blade is slightly narrower than the Mainz variety. The main difference is the triangular tip. Blade length ~50–55 cm (19.6 to 21.6 inches). Sword length ~65–70 cm (25.6 to 27.6 inches). Blade width ~6 cm (2.36 inches). Sword weight ~700g/1.5 pounds (wooden hilt).
    ! Pompeii Gladius (or Pompeianus or Pompei): Named by modern historians after the Roman town of Pompeii, this Gladius was by far the most popular one. Four instances of the sword type were found in Pompeii, with others turning up elsewhere. The sword has parallel cutting edges and a triangular tip. This is the shortest of the gladii. Observe that it is often confused with the spatha which was a longer, slashing weapon used by the auxilia from horseback. Over the years the Pompeii got longer, these later versions are referred to as semi-spathas. Blade length ~45–50 cm (17.7 to 19.7 inches). Sword length ~60–65 cm (23.6 to 25.6 inches). Blade width ~5 cm (1.97 inches). Sword weight ~700g/1.5 pounds (wooden hilt).

    The spatha came in two variants an infantry spatha with a triangular point and the cavalry spatha with a rounded point to stop the rider stabbing himself in the foot or his horse while riding. They were often 80-110cm long and are the predecessor of all medieval swords. I was thinking of two legionary classes. A standard legionary (vanguard replacement) and a heavy legionary (knight replacement). The heavy legionary needs a better name though. Anyway the heavy legionary can have access to all the swords and a medium and heavy version of the Pilum. The standard legionary can have access to some of the swords, a spear or two, a light Pilum and medium Pilum and a shield that isn’t a scutum (Celtic oval shields were used by many roman officers, cavalry and auxiliaries, or they can use a shield depicted on Trajan’s column). Other secondaries can include daggers really short swords and maybe even entrenchment tools.

    Roman armour was modified a lot. The falx tended to be rather good at taking limbs off and roman armour at the time didn’t have any limb protection. Leg Greaves were introduced. They weren’t far away from Greece who’s armies use greaves a lot so many Greek greaves were used and there evidence the Romans made their own iron and steel versions as most Greek greaves were bronze. There was a problem with the arms. The left arm was behind a shield and it didn’t matter too much if it was damaged. The sword arm was fully exposed and a roman soldier became useless without his sword arm. Emperor Trajan introduced the Manica. Which was gladiator arm armour for one arm. Lots of plates out together to protect the sword arm from sharp blows and to keep it flexible. They also doubled up the pteruges around the groin and officers had a full skirt of them. Also men wearing the chainmail armour (Lorica hamata) put these on their sleeves to further protect their upper arms. Many soldiers actually went back to the lorica hamata from the lorica segmentata (roman plate armour) as it was more lighter, more flexible and a falx could still penetrate the lorica segmentata anyway.

    This would give you more customisation options and at the same time be historically accurate. Most of these changes were temporary and only for a Dacian wars.

    The two other classes to make 4 could be auxiliaries. Most of their melee auxiliaries were from Gaul, Iberia, Germania and even some from Britannia. Other barbarians more or less. Some were even recruited south of the Danube river Dacia lies north of that river. In fact there were quite a lot of barbarian auxiliary cohorts in the Dacian wars there’s usually more civilised cohorts who at the time got fully equipped by the Romans whereas many barbarian cohorts had their own native weapons and equipment. Though they usually had roman helmets and shields with roman insignia on them mainly for identification purposes even the helmets. There wasn’t many archers the only archer cohort there being from Syria and cavalry archers from Parthia. They had no dedicated slinger cohort and I don’t know what they call their Skirmisher cohorts wether they chuck them in with normal infantry or not. But we can put in slings and javelins in anyway. Roman legionaries actually carried around four lead sling rounds on their person often so its safe to say that legionaries themselves had slings. Probably used when defending a walled fort or settlement.

    So of torn banner does decide to do another game and they have the feeling to do Romans this is the period and war to model it from. Other barbarians would be boring and unbalanced (Dacians had been romanised for almost 20 years so they knew their ways AND Dacia was rich in iron so more swords and axes were around instead of spears as well as heavy weapons). Carthage vs rome would be fun and probably slightly easier to balance but it would all be swords and shields with it much variation in troops.

  • I don’t see any of this really happening, though something like this has probably been done by a mount and blade warband mod

  • @Wolf.:

    I don’t see any of this really happening, though something like this has probably been done by a mount and blade warband mod

    Yeah but the combat in M&B isn’t that great. And there’s lots of TO potential. There isn’t a mount and blade mod that covers this exact period though there’s one close. The only multiplayer rome mod is set 300 years earlier and its not terribly popular. The rest of the roman mods are singleplayer or dead. The singleplayer ones are also miles away from completion.

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