I still have the feels for old chiv



  • While I’ve since moved on from Chivalry and video games in general, the fact that this game no longer gives me enjoyment has left part of me dead.

    I used to play this game under the name “Odin.” With one of my ingame friends “Thor,” him and I used to go around servers pubstomping and generally trolling. We used phrases to annoy people like “hop off” and “my leadership is strong.” We successfully earned the ire of everyone we played with.

    I used to enjoy playing Chivalry. I sunk 700 hours into it from launch to get to level 50. My favorite class was vanguard, and my favorite weapon was the bardiche. With this bardiche/vanguard combination, I used to be able to singlehandedly take on entire teams of pubs by sheer skill. Either clans ousted me as being a hacker, or invited me to join them.

    This was back when this game was fun for me. Torn Banner hadn’t disturbed the flow of the game yet by patching out CFtP, narrowing down windup times, and enforcing the awful player bubble. They also hadn’t broken too many things with lazy patches. Back then, the vanguard was a powerful class due to its ability to dance around other players and potential to kill knights in two hits. The knight was durable and deadly. With weapons like the SoW and longsword, they could dominate by having high HP and the most flexible weapons in the game. Plus, their kite shield granted them a defense that was unbreakable lest one switch to single-handed weapons. The man at arms was always one of the most powerful classes, and here they were especially. Their ability to dodge in and out of attacks meant that they could control the pacing of the fight. Their feints were nearly unreadable, and the skill it took to react to the best men at arms was incredible. The archer used to be balanced. Their weapons did not have the incredible velocity they do at this time. Aiming as an archer was a skill that few were capable of mastering.

    Combo Feint to Parry was the skill new players dreaded and skilled players revered. It allowed for a person who had the reaction time to input CFtP to parry immediately after a swing, thus allowing them the ability to fight off multiple people at once, and provide depth to dueling mechanic by offering an extra bit of flexibility. Regardless of what people say, it was incredibly easy to learn and easy enough to counter. All one would have to do is play chicken with the enemy - pretending to attack them during their swing to wait for their FtP, then you feint into the real swing and catch them. That tactic was just one example of how much depth this game used to have.

    The amount of depth this game used to have is what drew me into it. The fighting was fast paced, intense, and above all, skillful.

    With the addition of the bubble, one simply bounces off players when running into them, making using melee and 1h weapons incredibly difficult. This was an unintuitive feature that no-one wanted in this game. Hit detection was buggy enough without this artificial bubble causing people to bounce around each other simply by walking into them.

    Removing CFtP and adding in panic parry stops the fluidity of combat dead in its tracks. First off, panic parry is just as easy as CFtP was, if not easier. Second, panic parry does not give characters the same level of control CFtP did. Panic parry does not respond immediately to your input, and it stops people from riposting with it. Essentially, it limits what your character is capable of doing, which means it greatly lessens your ability to react to threats. Chivalry is still a relatively fast paced game, even after the horrible July patch. The fact that this slow paced feature was added to a fast paced game ruins the flow of combat. I don’t know how many times I’ve tried panic parrying in a fight with multiple people just for panic parry to engage a millisecond late and get me killed.

    Overall, the greatest mistake Torn Banner ever made in this game was its lack of fidelity to the original vision of Chivalry. This game was supposed to be great, and at a time, it was. However, it became clear that Torn Banner had somewhere lost their vision. At some point, Chivalry became less about the game, and more about money. The infamous “July patch” showed us exactly where this game was going. With the whole “Balance Council” debacle, Torn Banner had shown us that this game was no longer going to be about the community it sheltered, but about the company’s bottom line. This only became compounded by the fact that Torn Banner sold out to create the “Deadliest Warrior” expansion, which pissed on the dreams of everyone hoping for new content to be added to the main game. It alienated the fanbase, and worst of all, turned out to be nothing but a shallow cash-grab with even less depth than the current state of Chivalry.

    Torn Banner, I’m really sorry the game turned out this way. I’m not even mad. The way that you treat the community and the community treats you has become a vicious cycle of hate where nobody wins. I wish you would meet us at common ground so that we might be able to actually discuss this game. When you have radio silence with your fans, all it seems we can do to reach you is throw MWO esque flame wars your way. Chivalry still has the potential to be as fun as it used to be, but unless we all start fresh, this game will be nothing more than a sad memory for those who truly knew what it meant to play this game.



  • If I’m not mistaken, I think every time I caught you and Thor in a pub server I would feint and kill both of you then one of you would say “scrub city doe” and rage quit. Was so funny. Every single time. It was like the moment you saw me you got scared and ran away.

    Anyway, it’s a shame old Chivalry is gone. Yes, Chiv+ Pro Mod ect. ect. but it doesn’t offer the pub stomp experience so it’s just not the same. Maybe someday it’ll be back but… I’ve lost hope, really.



  • @SOC:

    If I’m not mistaken, I think every time I caught you and Thor in a pub server I would feint and kill both of you then one of you would say “scrub city doe” and rage quit. Was so funny. Every single time. It was like the moment you saw me you got scared and ran away.

    To be fair, that was Thor. I never really said the silly catchphrases. I usually just yelled at teammates for being awful at the game.



  • Good post, fairly reflective of the competitive players.

    But the community is much larger now and fun for casuals.

    So I don’t think you can have it both ways - a game that allows casuals to have fun versus a game with a high skill ceiling which allows full-time gamers who play 16/7 to slaughter noobs 30 to 1.



  • @gregcau:

    But the community is much larger now and fun for casuals.

    That’s not entirely true, considering the fact that TB has been throwing out a steam sale once a month to keep it stable. If it weren’t for these sales skewing the numbers, it would be clear that this game has been steadily dropping on its own merits.



  • great post



  • Nothing more needs to be said.



  • bardiche is still good wep
    owait 7 hits to kill knight



  • Wonderful post.



  • +1
    /fucking10characters



  • @Pungvarg:

    bardiche is still good wep
    owait 7 hits to kill knight

    _stab
    y u no die touht wsa op like brandi
    stab stab

    _This is my mental image every time I see a bardiche now.



  • @Skreshavik:

    _stab
    y u no die touht wsa op like brandi
    stab stab

    _This is my mental image every time I see a bardiche now.

    I still prefer my mental image of
    **feint feint feint overhead, combofeint feint feint feint overhead

    ded nigt**



  • Bardiche is still a good weapon. One shots archers in the chest now even. One shots MAA to head. Two shots knights with overheads (to the chest I think? dunno). Idk you can still wreck with it, if you don’t get hit by one of the 5 archers on the other team.



  • Haha, I remember you dude. You always forced me to try some bs to kill you, and this time in duels it was mace&kite.
    I guess your Holywater sprinkler stab was just better than my mace play lol.



  • OP, your arguments confound themselves.
    You’re saying the game used to have depth.
    The reality is that there has been no change in regard to CfTP missing, the only difference is that now anyone, even newbs without knowing they’re doing so, can use panic parry.
    What is funny is that back in the day people would spam combo as if flailing about would “stop anyone come into my space:O”/“You can’t touch me, i’m flailing”, but those people were sadly mistaken. Those peoples’ only success was spamming one strategy, but that can’t work now which is good because it brings diversity back to the game. You have to use a variety of tactics now to overcome your opponent, not just flail about.
    Its just confounding that you’re saying the game had more depth back then, when even then (per SOC) you were overcome by feinting, a different aspect of the game which still exists now….
    That depth is still there now, but with less flailing.



  • @giantyak:

    OP, your arguments confound themselves.
    You’re saying the game used to have depth.
    The reality is that there has been no change in regard to CfTP missing, the only difference is that now anyone, even newbs without knowing they’re doing so, can use panic parry.

    facepalm Are you fucking kidding me? I’ve always thought you were a moron but this takes the cake. CFtP wasn’t panic parry. Panic parry is the ability to parry during the recovery of ANY attack. Combo Feint to Parry only allowed you to feint to parry during the windup of an attack during a combo. Big fucking difference mate.

    CFtP and panic parry aren’t the same thing. The only reason people compare them is because in the exact same patch, CFtP was “fixed” and panic parry was introduced as its “replacement”.

    I’ll make it real simple to understand.

    Panic Parry: Allows the user to parry during the recovery of any attack, whether it be during a combo, or the first strike. This makes it so if anyone misses a swing, they CAN NOT be punished, as they can parry after they have missed.

    Combo Feint to Parry: The user CAN NOT parry during the recovery of any attack. Only the windup. This means that if someone missed an attack, they could be punished. This is a realistic mechanic that discourages spamming.

    So whenever you saw someone “flailing about” all they were doing was dancing, dodging out of the enemy’s attacks and then punishing them for it during their recovery. However with panic parry, you can parry any time you want, during the windup OR the recovery. This encourages combo spamming without thought, since you can parry during the recovery, you’re putting yourself at no risk missing swings over and over.

    Notes: You’ve always been able to parry during the windup. This has been in the game since the beginning and makes sense as you have not committed to the attack yet.

    The recovery was created so there was a time during a strike where you could be hit and flinched. This encouraged accurate swings, making sure every strike landed. It also discouraged mindless spamming at the same time.

    The strategy of purposely missing your first strike and then following up is only popular because you are putting yourself at no risk. Since let’s say if you missed and your opponent attacks anyway, you can still parry. This encourages spamming.

    Giantyak I can’t fathom how you think panic parry, an ability that encourages spamming, makes you invulnerable at all times, and prevents the punishing of missed strikes ADDS depth to the game, because it very clearly does not. It reduces the depth of the game dramatically. Combined with sprint lockout, and the smaller stamina pool, and the bubble, the game has devolved into impossible to punish spam.



  • Well, i disagree that panic parry encourages spamming. I don’t see any of the more experienced players spamming, because there is no benefit to do so. And before you go on about spamming being a threat because newbs can spam, well i don’t have a problem with spamming newbs…so in my experience i don’t have any problem with spamming. Spamming newbs get slain and i still have to have to fight experienced players the way i normally would.

    The statement that ‘whiffing’ an attack has no risk is absurd and generally suicide if your facing a good MaA. If your facing a skilled opponent and you whiff an attack your finished, end of story. So perhaps you need more experience or have not faced a talented player yet if you think that there is no risk in ‘whiffing’.

    The fact remains that you pay a heavy price in stamina for doing a panic parry. If you can’t beat a player who uses panic parry then that’s your problem. And if you can’t beat a player quickly because you don’t have CFtP and newbs have panic parry then that is also your problem and you should try a bit harder to explore other options in over coming your opponents quickly - that is what good players do: they adapt, get better, and win.



  • @giantyak:

    Well, i disagree that panic parry encourages spamming. I don’t see any of the more experienced players spamming, because there is no benefit to do so. And before you go on about spamming being a threat because newbs can spam, well i don’t have a problem with spamming newbs…so in my experience i don’t have any problem with spamming. Spamming newbs get slain and i still have to have to fight experienced players the way i normally would.

    The statement that ‘whiffing’ an attack has no risk is absurd and generally suicide if your facing a good MaA. If your facing a skilled opponent and you whiff an attack your finished, end of story. So perhaps you need more experience or have not faced a talented player yet if you think that there is no risk in ‘whiffing’.

    The fact remains that you pay a heavy price in stamina for doing a panic parry. If you can’t beat a player who uses panic parry then that’s your problem. And if you can’t beat a player quickly because you don’t have CFtP and newbs have panic parry then that is also your problem and you should try a bit harder to explore other options in over coming your opponents quickly - that is what good players do: they adapt, get better, and win.

    All the best players in the game are still the best players in the game. None of them need to “adapt, get better, and win.” I assure you the top players in AUS, EU, and NA would destroy you. The top players still top leaderboards. And they still crush any noob they face.

    The reason we’re angry, and the reason the comp scene died when that patch hit was because it lowered the skill ceiling and took control away from the player. If you can’t admit that, then there’s no point in arguing with you.



  • To me its more like the patch forced diversity. Sure, the best players may not have needed to spam combo’s to win, but that doesn’t mean that the vast majority of other players didn’t, and that it was their go to strategy.
    You now have to be pretty clever to best someone quickly and you need to use all the tools in your tool kit. It’s for this reason that i think the skill ceiling is now higher than before; you need to be a master of all the tools at your disposal, be quick, and be efficient with what stamina you have.



  • @giantyak:

    To me its more like the patch forced diversity. Sure, the best players may not have needed to spam combo’s to win, but that doesn’t mean that the vast majority of other players didn’t, and that it was their go to strategy.
    You now have to be pretty clever to best someone quickly and you need to use all the tools in your tool kit. It’s for this reason that i think the skill ceiling is now higher than before; you need to be a master of all the tools at your disposal, be quick, and be efficient with what stamina you have.

    The skill ceilling is definitely lower, as knowing the reach and speed of your weapon, your footspeed and recovery time of your opponents weapons is now pretty much irrelevant. A system where reach and speed mattered has now been replaced by a stamina micro-management simulator. I’ve only been playing since september, but after playing chiv+ for a while i can see just how much thought has to go into combat with cftp and the lack of panic parry.

    Also vaelithion and filthy peasant flail around like a magikarp on acid, still incredibly effective in pubs.