Objectives and Frustration



  • I have noticed a major source of frustration for the attacking team on most stages of the team objective maps. It’s due to the core elements of those objectives affected by this, so I really don’t know how to counter it. But here it is: Most of the time the best strategy to fulfill the objective as the attacking team is simply to run past the enemy, ignore them completely whenever possible, and don’t care for your own survival while doing as much of the objective as you are able to before getting killed. Frustration arises out of this because if you do it this way, there won’t be a coordinated attack, you won’t have proper fights and the objective is only done tiny step by tiniest step.

    Let’s go through each map in detail, so you can see what I’m talking about. I don’t want to bore you, so I won’t elaborate that much.

    Battlegrounds

    Stage 1
    Objective: Burn down the farm, fields, windmill and the fair.
    Best way to do: Run past Mason defense, grab a torch, throw it, die, repeat.

    Stage 2
    Objective: Move the petard to gates and blow it open.
    Best way to do: Run past Mason defense, stand as long as you can next to the bomb cart, die, repeat.

    Darkforest

    Stage 1
    Objective: Push the corpse wagon into the pass.
    Best way to do: Run past Agathian defense, stand as long as you can next to the corpse wagon, die, repeat.

    Stage 2
    Objective: Open the flood gates.
    This is one of the few stages where this flat tactic won’t work, so you will have a great game experience even as the attacking team while you try to conquer and hold two sites at once.

    Stage 3
    Objective: Kill the nobles.
    Best way to do: Run past Agathian defense, do as much damage to the wooden walls / kill as many royals as you can, die, repeat.

    Hillside

    Stage 1
    Objective: Light a signal fire.
    Best way to do: Run past Mason defense, throw torches at the pyre, die, repeat.
    I have to admit that in this stage, at least you have to keep the Masons from extinguishing the pyre again.

    Stage 2
    Objective: Tear down the trebuchets.
    This is by far the best stage of the team objective maps for the attacking team. You have to work as a team (well at least always two men), you can do multiple objectives leading to Masons split up their defenses -> more dynamic gameplay, not always having to fight at the very same point for minutes, etc. What breaks immersion though is that it is a horrible idea to do treb 3 (closest to Mason spawn) at last, because that will lead to the same experience as on the other stages.

    Stage 3
    Objective: Shoot down the ships.
    Best way to do: Run past Mason defense, shoot as many bolts at the ships as you can, die, repeat.
    While this is a bit better because defense is split to three sites and you actually have to clear out a site before being able to use the ballista.

    Stoneshill

    Stage 1
    Objective: Slaughter the peasants and burn the village.
    Best way to do: Run past Agathian defense, kill as many peasants / throw as many torches as you can, die, repeat.

    Stage 2
    Objective: Breach the keep with the battering ram.
    Best way to do: Run past Agathian defense, stand as long as you can next to the ram / use the ram as long as you can, die, repeat.
    It is extremely hard to do the latter against a good Agathian defense. This actually leads to having to fight to do the objective, although it can make it almost impossible -> frustration.

    Stage 3
    Objective: Kill the king.
    One of the few stages you actually have to fight and fight as a team to do the objective.

    ––

    I’m exaggerating of course, it is not as flat as that most times, but you will notice this problem exists.



  • You actually can’t push any push objectives alone if they’re defended. The cart will only move if the amount of attackers near the pushable outnumbers the amount of defenders.

    I also disagree with this strategy’s effectiveness in general. Making a concentrated push and having the majority of your team fighting and distracting the enemy while a couple players focus on slaying peasants/burning things/etc. is much more likely to succeed within the time limit.



  • @SlyGoat:

    I also disagree with this strategy’s effectiveness in general. Making a concentrated push and having the majority of your team fighting and distracting the enemy while a couple players focus on slaying peasants/burning things/etc. is much more likely to succeed within the time limit.

    very very wrong.

    Just a vaguely organized suicide team can do objectives very quickly. Unless the defenders are expert team players, there is nothing you can do to stop them.

    While some capture objectives, like grab the cranks, take some plannig, I’ve said burning, killing, and pushing objectives are far too easy as soon as I started. The defenders loose even a little ground then the objective is over.



  • I’m with Blindga on this one. The mot effective assaults I’ve seen involve the attackers just suicide charging the objective and ignoring everything else.



  • The most effective assaults I’ve seen involve the attackers just suicide charging the objective and ignoring everything else.

    That is just for bad players. Good players will always try to kill as many enemys as possible to help their team at the objective. It is more difficult to get good stats but its not impossible if you work with your team.



  • i agree that most of the objectives are VERY sided for the defenders, i understand defenders are supposed to have an advantage but when you have them spawning mere feet from what’s supposed to be pushed or opened it gets nearly impossible to complete as attackers.

    Dark Forest:
    1st Stage - not horrible, can be accomplished with a few good pushes.
    2nd Stage - frustrating for both defenders and attackers. When attacking you can be cut off from the forward defensive spawn. When defending most of your team spawns at the forward spawn and have no way of defending the objective, therefor losing that stage. I suggest turning off the forward spawn at a point (just like in AoC) or giving it to the attackers.
    3rd Stage - not horrible, since it doesn’t take very long to lower the gate.
    4th Stage - the only time i’ve seen this finished is when the back left family was the first killed, if it’s not killed it’s WAY too easy for defenders to defend that, not a gripe more of a pointer.

    Stones Hill:
    1st Stage - not horrible, sometimes i find that some houses don’t get set on fire unless i hit the wooden structure of it (if i hit the roofs or walls it wouldn’t catch)
    2nd Stage - near impossible for attackers. Takes too long to open the gate and the defenders spawn mere feet from where the ram ends up being. The reason this objective was possible in AoC was because you only had to move a siege tower up against the wall, not requiring you to be there for an extended amount of time, but still very defensible
    3rd Stage - although i’ve only seen this a few times and even fewer times has it actually worked it’s far too easy to defend the king near the back of the defenders spawn, you just bottle up the choke points with bodies and you’ll never get near him. The only time i’ve seen this completed is when ALL of the defenders were loured away from the king and he was left alone against 3 attackers. This was doable in AoC because the horse/cow couldn’t fight back.

    Hill Side:
    Haven’t played on the updated map yet, though it VERY difficult to get the pyre lit since everyone is funneled into one passageway.

    Battlegrounds:
    1st Stage - With the new torch placement by the granary it’s VERY easy to burn the granary and the wheat fields. The outer stall of the market that’s closest to the attackers spawn takes 2 torches to burn (not sure if intended)
    2nd Stage - easy to push the ram at the beginning, very difficult at the end 33% because of the masons spawn.

    All in all i feel that attacking is just TOO hard at certain points, making it next to impossible to complete maps or even progress them past certain stages. A lot of the old AoC maps were very dynamic with certain parts of the map being optional (breaking the water supply on darkforest for example) making them easier for attackers, but drawing man power away from the main attack. Most of the new maps i feel are very linear and very difficult for attackers.

    I dislike how pushing the ram and bomb wagon have changed since AoC, i understand you want to make the game more team oriented but i feel like it’s just a mobile flag capture. it was A LOT more skill oriented when you had to have a “pusher” and was very easily knocked off since as the ram moved you were able to push you way between the pusher and the pushing bar. As well as with fire pots you were able to force the pusher off and how with kicking and shield pushing it would make it even easier to prevent a pusher. Now it seems you just throw bodies at the ram/bomb cart for either defending or attacking.

    Some maps i hope to see post release would be Monastery, Siege and Sorrow for their own type of uniqueness.



  • Maybe it would help if whenever the attackers must burn something, the defenders would have to extinguish. That means there should be a well with lots of buckets near the defenders’ spawn. And maybe you could suprise an enemy from behind by planting a bucket on his/her head :D



  • me personally i dont like neither the way of TO and FFA, its really about spawning running in, getting as many kills as possible/focusing on objective , reapeat, dying does not matter. imo this could be fixed with tickets like in BF2, in TO attacking team gets something like 100 tickets, whenever a member of the attacking team dies the ticket count decreases by 1 and when the counts reaches 0 the defenders win, ofc the tickets should be refresh on every stage. for ffa i really dont like the fact that the winning is all about kills, you dont care with dying at all and it gets repetetive… it should be like : the player who gets a 5 kill streak wins the round, now with this change your life would matter!



  • don’t play FFA then. giving TO tickets would make it even worse for attackers, making near impossible objectives impossible.


Log in to reply