Balance Discussion 1 - Spears



  • I’ve played chivalry and chivalry DW a decent amount and have taken time to learn the intricacies it takes to be good at this game. Bottom line, spears are too good for how easy they are to use. Here is why >

    Weapons do more damage at the centre or end point of their swing now, this nerfs swords/axes etc, while spears maintain their full damage the vast majority of the time as the thrust attacks are the only ones worth doing.

    I don’t have the numbers, but it feels that the window of the spear wind-up where you can hit them to stop the attack is very quick, or too quick for a long ranged weapon. Even if you get close, you typically end up swapping hits anyway.

    If you block a spear thrust, there is no way to get in range of them before the next attack due to the stagger, so they can keep backpeddaling and thrusting as much as they like.

    It feels like the duration the weapon can be damaging during the thrust is too long. For example, I can thrust, miss them, but still drag it onto them while it’s out there to deal full damage (happens with sarissa a lot). This works so well against block too, I might thrust, they block perfectly but I was off point, drag it over for a hit after the block.

    I feel like i’m handicapping myself playing anything other than spear, without exaggeration i’ll average at least a 4~ k/d any game with the sarissa, compared to maybe 1.5/2 as sword of war, despite being very comfortable with 2h swords from my experience in medieval warfare.

    TL/DR Spears too strong for how easy they are to use.

    Would like to know what other people think.



  • All 3 spears are completely different in handling and power, the sarissa has a sprintaroundyoulmblmblmblmb problem, the yari isn’t the naginata, and the viking spear is OPoOPOOpOPOpOPopop. Typically, hit trading isn’t great because of the reduced damage at shorter ranges though.



  • Spears are only OP because people are idiots.

    RMB, W and left shift. Use those three keys and those spear users are in trouble. That’s how you get in range.



  • I’m not sure what sensitivity other people play on, but people moving to the sides is certainly not an issue for me, in fact it’s actually often a free hit as they aren’t blocking. Hit trading, even with the reduced close range damage is devastating for ninja/pirate.

    I don’t really see how blocking and running at them is the counter, as I explained the stagger you experience when you block stops you from getting in range if they keep moving backwards.



  • You don’t get staggered. You get knocked back. But you cover more ground towards them than them pushing you back. Often parrying/blocking them twice them attack works. Very rarely do you need to block them 3 times.

    When I use spears people do 1 of 3 things.

    Strafe around you.
    Walk backwards away from you.
    Attack you when they are out of range.

    None of those things work. Yet people do it over and over and over again.

    And always go for a fast riposte. Spear users are overly aggressive. They will go for a stab instead of defending themselves. An accelerated riposte or a fast weapon will flinch them before they hit trade. Then these spear users have to go on the defensive. And stay close. Don’t stop moving towards them. The bubble is 50% smaller in deadliest warrior so getting close in DW is more beneficial than in MW.

    In deadliest warrior you essentially do the opposite to what you think you have to do. Not just with spears.



  • @placentoid:

    .A bunch of whining

    Get better at the game first before asking for nerfs to weapons no good players have problems dealing with.



  • lol spartans are terrible but the viking spear is probably the best weapon in DW



  • @CRUSHED:

    lol spartans are terrible but the viking spear is probably the best weapon in DW

    In pubs it is.



  • Before you bitch about Spartans being OP, how about acknowledging the free hit you get by kicking their shields ffs? Spears aren’t the hardest thing to deal with in this game. I think those asshole ninjas who roll spam and seem to have unlimited stamina are pretty annoying. Or fucking Pirates.



  • @lemonater47:

    In pubs it is.

    Don’t tell me people play scrims in CDW.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    Don’t tell me people play scrims in CDW.

    Well almost. Really its just good players playing duel.



  • There is very limited useful discussion here, I understand the desire to say nothing’s OP, deal with it approach to look elite, but in reality I’ve highlighted legitimate issues with this class of weapon that affects the majority of gameplay. It’s a common design philosophy that easy to use weapons should be weaker than skillful use of a difficult weapon which does not seem to be the case here.

    Instead of calling out about what class is OP, that I need to l2p etc, can we address what’s actually going on? Whether or not you think spears are OP or not shouldn’t change the fact that missing a thrust, then hitting them without the force of the thrust by dragging is a thing when it probably shouldn’t be.



  • @placentoid:

    There is very limited useful discussion here,

    well lemon did spam his stuff into your thread.

    @placentoid:

    Instead of calling out about what class is OP, that I need to l2p etc, can we address what’s actually going on? Whether or not you think spears are OP or not shouldn’t change the fact that missing a thrust, then hitting them without the force of the thrust by dragging is a thing when it probably shouldn’t be.

    however it is what it is… yes you can drag a spear thrust - but not by much. dragging with other weapons is much more effective so to nerf spear jab drags would be non sensical.



  • @placentoid:

    There is very limited useful discussion here, I understand the desire to say nothing’s OP, deal with it approach to look elite, but in reality I’ve highlighted legitimate issues with this class of weapon that affects the majority of gameplay. It’s a common design philosophy that easy to use weapons should be weaker than skillful use of a difficult weapon which does not seem to be the case here.

    Instead of calling out about what class is OP, that I need to l2p etc, can we address what’s actually going on? Whether or not you think spears are OP or not shouldn’t change the fact that missing a thrust, then hitting them without the force of the thrust by dragging is a thing when it probably shouldn’t be.

    There’s nothing wrong with the spears. Viking spear is really strong, but easily beatable. What else are we supposed to say besides “get better”?



  • @Flippy:

    There’s nothing wrong with the spears. Viking spear is really strong, but easily beatable. What else are we supposed to say besides “get better”?

    Say “HOW” to get better.



  • @lemonater47:

    Say “HOW” to get better.

    You duel a friend who’s good at the game, nobody gets mad when they lose, you try new strategies and things you know you’re weak at, instead of just reverting to your usual nerd smasher opening. You’re both better players afterward, proceed to trash compact in pubs against players who don’t practice.



  • @placentoid:

    There is very limited useful discussion here, I understand the desire to say nothing’s OP, deal with it approach to look elite, but in reality I’ve highlighted legitimate issues with this class of weapon that affects the majority of gameplay. It’s a common design philosophy that easy to use weapons should be weaker than skillful use of a difficult weapon which does not seem to be the case here.

    Instead of calling out about what class is OP, that I need to l2p etc, can we address what’s actually going on? Whether or not you think spears are OP or not shouldn’t change the fact that missing a thrust, then hitting them without the force of the thrust by dragging is a thing when it probably shouldn’t be.

    Here’s why.

    There are many things wrong with this game. Many good players have pointed these things out. But for every good player who sheds light on the problems, there are 3 “know it all” players who beat the notion into the ground.

    What you are saying is of course true. There are many weapon imbalances, two handed weapons are stronger than one handed weapons in this game for the reasons you pointed out, chiefly among them are the spears. Range, stagger, game speed, sprint strafing, and the lack of penalty on having low stamina, which allows for attack spam without adequate punishment.

    Sadly, the people who matter don’t seem to care. What you get instead are butt hurt, self declared uber players who refuse to acknowledge the problems in the game, and would instead prefer to say “L2P”, rather than address the game breaking issues. These people aren’t worth your time to argue with. It’s akin to arguing with someone devoid of a frontal lobe.

    Torn banner is going to have to figure these things out on their own it seems. Many of us might not be around to see it though.



  • @scy22:

    Here’s why.

    There are many things wrong with this game. Many good players have pointed these things out. But for every good player who sheds light on the problems, there are 3 “know it all” players who beat the notion into the ground.

    What you are saying is of course true. There are many weapon imbalances, two handed weapons are stronger than one handed weapons in this game for the reasons you pointed out, chiefly among them are the spears. Range, stagger, game speed, sprint strafing, and the lack of penalty on having low stamina, which allows for attack spam without adequate punishment.

    Sadly, the people who matter don’t seem to care. What you get instead are butt hurt, self declared uber players who refuse to acknowledge the problems in the game, and would instead prefer to say “L2P”, rather than address the game breaking issues. These people aren’t worth your time to argue with. It’s akin to arguing with someone devoid of a frontal lobe.

    Torn banner is going to have to figure these things out on their own it seems. Many of us might not be around to see it though.

    Well when I and my friends have all gotten good enough to deal with the spear, why shouldn’t anyone else? Granted, the viking spear is really strong, maybe too strong, simply because it outshines the other viking weapons. A slight nerf, ever so slight nerf may be in order. But definitely not the Nerf into the Ground mentality some people have.

    Also I kick ass with one-handed weapons. Just sayin’.



  • One handed weapons are bad? Have you ever seen a rank 25 pirate with a Sabre kill an entire team? Or a ninja with claws or ninjato. If you’re a casual player whose highest ranked class is 15, you have no right to declare things OP. That may sound arrogant, but it’s simply true.

    Viking spear is difficult because it combines two different stabs, with two different swings. It’s able to combo, and since it’s a Viking, he has beserker speed buff. This can prove difficult to fight if the player is good, but Samurai Nodachi can pretty much match the stab distance, while having wide sweeping arcs on swings. Samurai also has two pole weapons that work well. Pirates have guns and good swords. Ninjas can roll around, throw shurikens, and have quick facehug weapons. Spartans have a shield and their own spear+shield bashes and kicks. Knight has a very good arsenal all-round.

    Combine good weapon choice with the right strategy and class-based experience and knowledge. Use good footwork, attempt to guess your enemy’s moves and lure him into hits. Hell, throw in a feint every few guys. Use aggressive kicks. Parry a few attacks, then counter him suddenly and catch him off guard. Use drags on your stabs, delays on your swings. Time your combos between blocks. Fight him with a teammate. Shoot him in the head. Light him on fire. Kick him off a ledge.

    There are many things you can do to counter any playstyle. Try learning all the mechanics and fighting-styles that good players have developed over time, and learn the game. Any enemy is beatable with the right mindset and skill-level, after practice and failure. That’s OK. What is not OK is to come onto the forums and complain about a weapon being OP, because you’ve seen a couple people pub-stomping with it. Certain weapons have distinct advantages, play to them and adapt to them. Lots of us do it and we’re not finding the Viking spear near unstoppable as you say.



  • I’ve seen some claw ninja do really damn well. Though claws aren’t a one handed weapon now are they.


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