Some ideas for balancing the shield (knight only)



  • Some ideas for making shields a more viable loadout option (for knights):
    -Shields should allow a counter if you block at the right time.
    -Less stamina drain if you block at the right time (keeping the same stamina drain if you just turtle up).
    -Buff the bastard swords when used 1-handed (also increase the reach of the first hammer, by a lot).

    In case shields get too overpowered with these changes, maybe reduce their hitbox to something like the buckler’s.

    I think the way to go is to raise the skill ceiling, allow for an experienced player to not be handiccaped by using a shield, but don’t make it so a begginer is overpowered with it.

    Anyway, I think that would do it. What do you guys think? (btw, sorry for my english - not my native language)



  • Or just revert it to what it was pre-patch, without the dumb lockout and stamina drain. Shields kicked ass pre-patch.



  • Shields were a lot better when it was hard to combat face-hugging. Simply reverting to the old state just wouldn’t be enought in my opinion.



  • It would be enough actually. Go play Chiv+ and use a shield.



  • the problem is that chiv+ has face-hugging, and current chivalry doesn’t (or not so much).



  • Face hugging is fine. God almighty can’t believe people still think face hugging is OP. If they face hug you, you’re also face hugging them. Kick them away, go on the offensive, play defensively, god almighty.



  • If you are here to ask for the return of pre-july/2013 chivalry, you are completely off-topic. This topic is to discuss how to buff shields in the current state of chivalry.



  • Shields don’t need any buffing. You get to hold your block as long as you like, has no one ever seen one knight blocking group of people just by going backwards? I see it all the time and some can deal with drags fine too. You attack faster when you have a shield so no riposte makes sense.



  • If you are against someone who is not a complete noob, using a shield is always worse than not using one. In large group it’s the same. Yeah you can hold 2 or 3 guys for a few seconds (untill you run out of stamina), but without a shield you can counter and actually kill people if you are surrounded. Omg I thought it was pretty much established that shields are very weak ¬¬



  • Not true, shields can be highly useful in skilled hands. There is certainly a large gap between being OK with the shield and being excellent with the shield with no real in-between. IMO the best option for a shield is a riposte style shield bash that pushed opponents back a little.



  • @Sciffer:

    Shields don’t need any buffing. You get to hold your block as long as you like, has no one ever seen one knight blocking group of people just by going backwards? …

    Yep, i’ve seen that, they do it for about 1sec and then run out of stamina and spontaneously combust as the ‘group’ all hit the knight at once and he goes poooffff into a red mist. Its quite a scene.

    @Toll:

    Not true, shields can be highly useful in skilled hands. There is certainly a large gap between being OK with the shield and being excellent with the shield with no real in-between. IMO the best option for a shield is a riposte style shield bash that pushed opponents back a little.

    I agree, but the thing is you can kind of already do this with the shield punch of the buckler, the problem is that flinch in windup often fails, so if your playing javelin archer you end up getting cut in half. That’s where the discussion on passive block being active during shield punch and shield bash is coming from.



  • @Toll:

    Not true, shields can be highly useful in skilled hands. There is certainly a large gap between being OK with the shield and being excellent with the shield with no real in-between. IMO the best option for a shield is a riposte style shield bash that pushed opponents back a little.

    ^This. My shield thread pretty much covered the issues surrounding shields at the moment with a few balance ideas, but I think if they actually fixed the shields hitbox, reduced the stamina drain and then brought in a new mechanic for shield use, it would really balance the setup for higher level play.

    And if you can’t 2v1 a shield knight and win, then that’s a serious fault at your end. They’ve gimped their offensive abilities in favour of being able to block 2 attacks in quick succession maybe 2 or 3 times before they’re stunned. You can also just time a kick to land at the same time as your mates weapon, forcing them to choose the stun or the damage. It’s really not that hard.



  • Or you could just bring back the old stamina values and remove the shield’s lockout. That would fix shields.



  • @Flippy:

    Or you could just bring back the old stamina values and remove the shield’s lockout. That would fix shields.

    As someone who never played before ‘the patch’, and only got to play Chiv+ for a short time before it died, what is this shield lockout of which you speak, oh wise and majestic Flippy? I did notice the stamina values though, sooo much better.



  • @giantyak:

    I agree, but the thing is you can kind of already do this with the shield punch of the buckler, the problem is that flinch in windup often fails

    No you can’t. The buckler shield punch is not a riposte and requires you to be in the ready state. That small difference in timing is huge during a fight. The shield punch is quick and pops heads really well. What I want is not a damaging attack, but a simple minor knock back on riposte. This, I think, would bring shields onto a level playing field with a parry. The parry riposte is an offensive maneuver, the shield riposte would be a defensive, which fits nicely into the roles of free weapon (aggressive) vs shield use (defensive).

    As for your comment about flinches not working, the only time that flinch doesn’t work is when your opponent has a fairly high ping, it starts getting noticeable at 120ish and above. The higher their ping, the less time they are vulnerable to a flinch from your point of view. This is partially why having a high ping autokick is so important in this game, other mechanics are also affected by high pings.



  • So far as i know the current shield stamina damage is based on a formula involving weapon damage? I think it’d be good to use it on parry as well, though, shields obviously need some adjustment to reduce the current stamina drain.
    If they were to implement this for parry and block then it’d be good if it was balanced well then daggers would do small amounts of stamina damage but things like the polehammer, maul, halberd and brandistock would do more significant stamina damage.

    @Toll:

    No you can’t. The buckler shield punch is not a riposte and requires you to be in the ready state…

    Sure, but shield punch is fast enough, i catch people out with it all the time with knight or javelin player.

    Yeah, you’d have to say typically 40-50% of people in a TO game have over 120ms.



  • Not here in Aus. Most players are in the <90 range. A few stand out, but not many. We kick those on higher, particularly 200+ pretty quickly.

    Shield punch is fast, but not so fast to force them to parry like a riposte does. The idea with shield riposte is to push a facehug enemy back a bit on a successful block at the cost of a bit of precious stamina. This is a different case than what shield punch does. Shield punch cannot do it.



  • There is a problem with Shield that they essentionally grants the wielder some “Feint-resistance” which is quite good to have in this game because they are essentionally what breaks the players guard and allows a free hit. which I think its a bit silly, but that only really works when it comes to the One versus one combat around chivalry, its noticable speed penalty incomparing to parrying with the weapon can be quite the problem when it comes to Team objective or last team standing game mode where several opponents may engage the shield at once, and once you are stuck at having two guys repeatingly bashing down your shield, you are fucked.

    Now, I think there could be one way to make the shield more effective, one way would be that. Since Shield doesn’t have any counter-attack, it should have something else; for example lets say that if the shield blocks an incomming attack, then the attacker will be either slowed down by having to wait out his recovery time, or slower time than the current ‘get parried’ window which would essentionally remove the possability for certain fast weapons to trade with the shield even after they struck first, this may also help out the shield not getting so easily bashed down in a one versus two situation.

    Also another thing would be that the shield should have an active block during the phase where the user lowers the shield.
    That’s all I can think of when it comes to buffs since shields already have a huge drawback when it comes to stamina management.
    Shield users are kinda forced to pick fast weapon or feint because of their lack of counter-attacks.



  • I use shield often in FFA and win very often. Granted that is with MAA shield+norse. Although, providing no particularly good players are using vanguard (they just simply kill randoms faster in ffa), Shield SoW Knight can be a great combo too.
    The point I’m getting here, is that shields are very useful in group fights too.
    You cannot, as a shield user, get backed into a corner vs multiple people, that is pretty much death unless they screw up their timing and give you an opening.

    There is nothing wrong with that, it doesn’t need a buff because of it.

    Feint (and drag) resistance is a prime reason to use shields, protection against projectiles is good too. Shields excel in these areas. They fall down in crowd control, with a parry->riposte you can take on multiple people quite well, parrying off one and riposte into another.
    With a shield you are pretty much at a disadvantage to movement, two opponents can force you back quite easily, until you cannot go back any more, then you are boned. The prime reason for this is that shields have no way to engage in the rhythm dance like a parry does, shields need a small riposte ability to knock back enemies a little bit.



  • @Toll:

    Not here in Aus. Most players are in the <90 range. A few stand out, but not many. We kick those on higher, particularly 200+ pretty quickly.

    Shield punch is fast, but not so fast to force them to parry like a riposte does. The idea with shield riposte is to push a facehug enemy back a bit on a successful block at the cost of a bit of precious stamina. This is a different case than what shield punch does. Shield punch cannot do it.

    I am in AUS XD
    I know we manage our servers pretty well, but when the server is full you get those games where your’re constantly bombarded with tards that have 280-400ms….one person can only vote kick so many…

    I was going to add that even when i stab people or shield punch them often flinch in windup still fails. I’ll be in release and they’ve only just begun windup and the flinch still fails. Given such a large discrepancy it can be really frustrating when it happens. I think you notice it most often as a javelin archer because every time it happens you die.


Log in to reply