Good way of nerfing/fixing Short kick & Daze kick

  • When it comes to one versus one in Chivalry, it might seem like a sort of ‘turn based combat’ where one is the defender and the other is the attacker, when the attacker attacks and the defender blocks, their roles swaps. But these roles may of course swap anytime before that, depending on what the two individual fighters choose to do during the fight. But there is one move that allows the defender to safely and instantly swap roles, and that is the short kick which is fast enough to prevent any attack to slip in, and it is also capable of flinching mid-swing which is something I don’t really find myself too big fan of.

    I would suggest that there would be made a slight difference between Short kick and Daze kick, that each one would be used for each situation, Daze kick for instance could just keep their ability to flinch mid-swing, as it could be a manouver to use if the opponent is delaying, as it would be too dangerous for the kicker to try to do a daze kick if the opponent is attacking ‘properly’. Fast kicks could be kept as they are, with the exception of not being able to flinch the user mid-swing, so this kick could only be used to kick away opponents and only flinch them during their wind up.

    Also, that stamina drain that comes along with both of the Kicks is definently a no no in my opinion, you could basically just do a combination of a heavy blunt weapon hit versus a shield, then instantly kick it for extra stamina loss and then again make another attack. Kicks should only drain stamina from the user, maybe not so much if the kick is successfully landed, but it should give them some penalty if they miss their kick, also the panic parry during kick recovery needs to go, you essentionally want to leave the kickers vulerable if they missed their kick so that its punishable.

    That’s my opinion about the Short and daze kick, feel free to post your own comments about it here.

  • Panic parry after kick should remain, provided that kick in both forms eat up stamina. A stamina eating kick that misses + panic parry is a significant amount of stamina to lose and that is the punishment, a free hit isn’t necessary.

  • Kick is OP.

  • @dudeface:

    Kick is OP.

    Please come with a more serious post or don’t do it at all. Its not that its overpowered, but I just think it needs a slight adjustment. Here is my suggestion how it should be done, could you ever come up with anything like that? Nah, you’d probably call anything OP cause you don’t have anything better to do.

    Anyways, hopefully this thread will get more serious posts.

    And Toll, that panic parry during kick recovery isn’t even intentional I believe, just because Torn Banner messed up after the incident where everyone could panic parry during ANY form of recovery. Even parry recovery hahaha…

  • Just remove kick daze vs shield users. It’s already stupid as fuck and always have been

  • This post is deleted!

  • In my opinion anything related to kicks that is not shield bash blocking is low priority right now (the are far more aggravating issues).

    If there would be any changes (included other ideas because they should be seen in-context):

    • increase damage on both versions (slightly above fist damage)
    • make the damage portion blockable (when parried the damage should be applied to the attacker instead, if not using shield bash)
    • keep shield stagger but also give it a significant knockback (you need a long weapon, very quick reflexes or a good buddy to take advantage)
    • make kicks aimed (to allow kicking downstairs and - to a limited degree - upstairs)
    • CHANGE TO SHIELDS: force shield up time after starting a block (same as parry time) - decrease stamina cost for blocking during this time (kick stagger applies!)
    • CHANGE TO SHIELDS: shield bash can block melee attacks and triggers parries (hitbox size = shield visual size)
    • CHANGE TO SHIELDS: shield bash damage scales reversely with shield size (Towershield damage < kick damage, Buckler damage > kick damage)
    • CHANGE TO FLINCH: flinch only applies if the hit causes more than X damage where X is above quick kick/shield bash damage
    • CHANGE TO COLLISION: reduce player collision size to vísual model size
    • reduce kick reach (touching somebody with your toe should not push him away or deal damage)

  • First off, there is a massive difference between the short kick and the daze kick. Daze kick takes much more stamina, and is also much slower. The short kick doesn’t take up as much stamina, but is faster and doesn’t daze.

    Daze kick only works on shields that are raised so I have no idea what this;

    there would be made a slight difference between is Short kick and Daze kick, that each one would be used for each situation,

    is all about. Short kick is for kicking, Daze kick is for stunning shield users.

    Also the short kick is not fast enough at all to kick faster weapons away, especially if they have the initiative. You can really only get away with kicking if they drag their weapon, which allows you more time to kick. But if they lookdown OH, they’ll get you every time. (Unless you have the initiative.)

    Also you lose more stamina kicking than your opponent does who’s on the receiving end, I’ve tested this. This goes for both the Short kick and the Daze kick.

    Also about removing panic parry from the kick, it should just be removed completely.

  • The stamina cost for making a successful kick is 25 (20 for Man at arms) and the drain on the kick is 15, still think its a bit silly how one could just pick Double Axe then repeatingly keep a shield user flinched till they eventually have had their stamina completely drained by you smashing down their shield with double axe that has a stamina cost to block its overhead that ranges between 25 - 9, and then right after doing that you can immideantly kick your opponent with a short kick to drain their stamina further and yet again be able to attack. I think its a bit silly that such tactic can be used and I would’ve prefered if that was taken away from the game.

    All I ask for is that Short Kick is slightly nerfed since its so heavily used now days at dueling because it gives you a free card to attack, also leaves the opponent you kicked away from you pretty vulerable to backswing and drags since they will be standing slightly still at first after being kicked, least they’ll be slowed down before they can get their speed back up, but in a fight where they keep moving about, its kinda hard to land in a backswing or drag stab due to their foot work unless you manage to get yourself in a good position. Short kick could still act as it does, a faster kick that has more Knockback than Daze kick because it is suppose to push opponents away from you, and of course it has a less stamina cost, but I would prefer if the Short Kick wasn’t powerful enough to actually flinch an opponent during release phase, only during windup. This would render Daze kick more useful towards to people who use obvious delays and will allow you to do a safely slow daze kick to send them away from you and then enjoy the free attack card.

    But that stamina drain should definently go, that would make people actually consider kicking before just doing so since it would be the means to possibly lower their stamina under their opponents which really really puts them at a bad advantage in the fight and could possibly be dazed.

  • Evil Minion, I don’t think raising the kick damage which is currently 3 for short kick and 5 for daze kick to a value around what Fists have, since the kicks are unblockable, you kinda don’t want them to be that powerful, and there is already several combinations out there that uses the kick as the finisher, for example IF a Knight with longsword strikes a Vanguard twice and he still doesn’t die, then the Vanguard is just one kick from dying, which he can barely avoid if you are all up his face.

    Same goes for using Warhammer versus other knights, if you do two overheads and they still don’t kill, that means you haven’t scored a single headshot which is required to make the last hit become a kill, but fear not. as they are just one short kick away from dying so just do a jump kick or whatever and they are down.

    By increasing the damage, it would furthermore make the unblockable kick kills used a lot more which is just going to be annoying in the end once your hp is under the base damage of the kick, you have essentionally lost the match.

  • What kind of shield user lets a double axe beat him?

  • @Toll:

    What kind of shield user lets a double axe beat him?

    One that plays with his eyes closed.

  • Double axe is better than you kids think, lol.
    specially vs shield

  • @wildwulfy:

    Evil Minion, I don’t think raising the kick damage which is currently 3 for short kick and 5 for daze kick to a value around what Fists have, since the kicks are unblockable,

    Thats why my suggestion was to make them blockable - you only take damage if you take the boot to the face (or gutts). This gets rid of unblockable finishers (if blocked they only stagger or knock back). Its also stupid that kicking with an iron boot does far less damage than punching sombodys helmet with a leather glove…

    As this would make things worse for shield users (either you get stunned or you will take significant damage) the idea was to increase the knockback on the slow kick - its a stronger kick after all. Reach decrease should make it possible to dodge it if the defender is paying attention - but this requires cleaner hitboxes (no bubble, better block size and tracers).

    My list is interdependent as one point needs others to work properly. The idea behind this is making kicks more immersive and fun.

  • Nerf kick? That’s a dumb idea.

    Kick/shield bash doesn’t even land half the time when it should, it costs lots of stamina, and if you do land the kick people will still block your next attack or land a counter attack on you very often.
    If anything kick/shield bash needs a buff.

  • I think kick is in a good state. Leave it how it is.

    Perhaps make queuing a kick easier though. Sometimes you will try to queue and you won’t do anything so you need to stop doing anything for a second before launching a kick.

  • @DokB:

    I think kick is in a good state. Leave it how it is.

    Perhaps make queuing a kick easier though. Sometimes you will try to queue and you won’t do anything so you need to stop doing anything for a second before launching a kick.

    Yes, it’s so annoying when I want to kick the oponent but the game won’t let me queue the kick =/


  • @Pungvarg:

    Double axe is better than you kids think, lol.
    specially vs shield


    Double Axe is a much lighter weapon than the Maul, which puts it in a lower risk of being flinched by shield user with fast weapon due to its ( .55 .6 and .65 ) And it also has a base damage of 115, and since Shield stamina cost depends on the base damage of the attack, A double Axe overhead versus a Buckler shield would end up in a 23 Stamina loss, then the Double Axe could just do a quick Short kick to regain the attacking role in the fight and then again hit the shield and cause the shield user to lose yet another 23 stamina, How is that balanced? The stamina drain ranges between 23 - 15, going between Buckler and to Tower shield eventually and short kick has the windup that is same as dagger stab I think.

    And it wouldn’t really be the means to nerf kick, only to seperate them to make Daze kick viable for more than just dazing shield-users and that could kick away and flinch people who are using obivous delays and are in release phase on their weapon.

    I really don’t think Kick is in a good state as it is right now, its too easy to land, too easy to just spam, just a free card to make another move. Least they could’ve made it like Mount and Blade did it by making kicks very hard to land but high rewarding if one managed to do so.

    You all should definently try to play more against people who kick a lot, just head to any duel server and you might run into people who does so almost all of the time and then enjoy the short kick at its best.

  • I called fast kick being a “attacker control” problem before the patch, just saying.

    Luckily the patch screwed up the game so badly in other ways nobody really notices.

    I almost guarantee if the patch changed nothing but added fast kick, it would become a MUCH bigger part of combat over a bit of time. It would probably be used a lot more now if competitive players were still scrimming and coming up with new strats and advancing the metagame.

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