Best way to deal with Men at Arms?



  • This is not a tutorial, I’m genuinely asking.

    My main class is Knight with either Longsword or Grand Mace.
    The best secondary IMO is the Broadsword, and when I use the Grand Mace the Broadsword makes up for pretty much 75% of the kills I get in the match.

    Anyhow; I have now sunken around 620 hours into the game and 1 thing is still bugging me: how the […] do you kill an experienced MAA in a 1 versus 1?
    I mean the decent Man at Arms. Either the kind of player who is rank 50 and can play any class ridiculously well or the rank 35-40 who never played any other class.

    To me it just seems like raging material on how OP that class SEEMS when up versus a knight. I generally try 2 things and both are pretty much without any success if the opponent is as good as me. Either I hold ground for the most fight, blocking a few attacks without countering much and then suddenly doing a quick Broadsword riposte, or I constantly run towards him in order to make his backwards-dodge pretty much useless.

    But I can’t kill those mother[…]s. I can’t believe their dodge followed by an attack is just so fast.
    Example: they come at me, do a stab, I block the stab and attempt a stab-riposte(with the fast BROADSWORD) and they just casually dodge out of reach. Seriously, why is their dodge faster than a Broadsword riposte? And of course, before your recovery time has passed they have already dodged back in and landed a quick hit on you.

    This goes pretty much on and on for me. Either I play very agressive and make myself vulnerable to dodges around me followed by attacks from the side, or I play defensively and then even the Broadsword isn’t fast enough to deal a hit.

    Something else I tend to try is to just predict when they’ll dodge forward to hit you and then stab them. This tends to fail a lot and you just end up stabbing air and the MAA will know what you’re up to.

    –-
    So: how do you guys deal with those pesky midgets?



  • To make it clear, the only way a knight beats an MaA 1vs1 (and just about always been this way, even with combo feint to parry/before MaA buffs/before knight nerfs) is if the MaA makes mistakes. All those times you saw knights win 1vs1 tournies? It wasn’t because knights are the best class. It’s because the MaAs in those tournies made mistakes.

    Now that that’s out of the way, my best success with MaAs as a knight is longsword + kite shield. The kite shield will actually make it slightly harder for them to stab through your left side of your parry/block, so you have to be really good with your shield. You also have to be able to read their feint to kicks, and their feint to jump kicks, but that added pressure is worth it when you can stop them from getting around your sides with their OP footwork. You need to be patient. You should almost NEVER combo an MaA unless you’re completely sure he will HAVE to block your combo or force a hit trade, as he can and will flinch you due to flinch being really bugged right now. The most common MaAs have the same pattern: stab, dodge, stab, dodge, stab, dodge… If they’re just doing that, let them do it and wait until they get out of stamina then try to go in (if we’re talking 1vs1, not like a 1vs1 in a TO where they stall you long enough that their team shows up and kill you). Those kinds of MaAs also like to dodge when they get parried, when they parry you, and when you feint them, so be ready to read and react to that. The best way to beat those kinds of MaAs is to be patient and win the stamina game.

    For the good MaAs, your only chance is to force hit trades and keep the range advantage with your longsword. Alt LMB is your best friend in those fights, and you’re gonna have to be the one who’s constantly closing the distance. Treat the MaA like a vanguard with a brandistock that’s much faster at footwork and swinging, so that you’re constantly closing the distance just enough so that when they do hit you, that you already hit them first so it’s impossible for flinch to bug out. It is extremely difficult and, like I said, only possible when that MaA makes mistakes. There’s very very little you can do as a knight to beat MaAs, so you just have to hope they make mistakes.



  • If you’re having issues trading with the broady, swap to norse for the faster windup (less chance of a flinch), or use your LS onehanded and run them down with feints + stabs/aggressive ripostes. Alternatively, you could use the ridiculous lookdowns/reverse overheads on the grand mace to drop them whenever they sprint in (it hits with the handle too haha).



  • Force hit trades and capitalize on the fact that most MAA n00bs spam their dodge, which can get VERY predictable after fighting them once or twice. Don’t riposte, unless you have a fast enough weapon to hit them even if they do dodge away (Short Sword, Daggers, Norse Sword)

    Remember, YOU have to change the way you fight. You cannot fight MAA’s like the rest of the classes. Deviate from your standard fighting style, because MAA’s eat predictability. Throw your attacks later and apply a bit more patience. If you apply A LOT of patience and are good with your parry’s and blocks, you can usually just stam them out, which is when you can start applying your own pressure.



  • Nice tips so far, guys!
    I’ll definitely pay attention to this. It seems the most common suggestion here is to play the patience game and wear out the MAA.



  • Never riposite, never back up and never feint. Win the stamina warfare.
    The only problem is that by then he will have feinted 15 times, and you are probably dead already.



  • You can also try the universal move that works against all classes especially with high rank players :

    The double feint
    How to do it? -> run to opposite direction then suddendly turn and pretend to try a “surprise attack” but you feint and then attack

    (All high ranks players are aware about the “surprise attack” and are sure they can parry it. Even good maa’s usually try to block it instead of dodging.)

    The downside is that if you are duelling a very good player, it works only once…
    But on a messy battlefield it works great :-)



  • If they backdodge right after you block, don’t riposte, start sprinting towards them and then start an attack or block depending on how they act after the dodge. Or you can just feint as soon as you see them dodge.



  • Use the environment. As a knight on open ground, you’re at a serious disadvantage against a decent MAA, but if you use cramped corridors or the buggy terrain features to render their agility moot, you can overwhelm the little buggers.

    Really though, knights should be better able to 1v1 men-at-arms, and at dueling in general.



  • What is really OP about MAAs is that the speed of their backpedaling is just a little slower than the knight’s sprint. That means that a MAA can recover a lot of stamina until the knight reaches him. I miss forward chase =/



  • I think you guys are making this way too complicated. To beat even the best MAA (in a duel) you have to play aggressively, without wasting stamina. It’s all about stamina. I use Billhook, but you can do the same thing with the LS. Walk towards the MAA, don’t sprint. Now, just use alt LMB’s and LMB’s. You want to put the MAA into a situation where he either has to dodge backwards, which wastes his stamina, or he tries to dodge to the sides where you can clip him with your LMB.

    Be sure to mix in feints. Also you have to focus on parrying all of the MAA’s attacks. That’s a really good MAA’s weakness. If he can’t hit you, he’s powerless.



  • Go for tradehits while using broadsword and feinting.



  • Use Norse. Faster windup, range difference negligible, hit to kill (depending where you strike) the same.

    MaA lose the hit trade war.

    Feinting when you know they won’t dodge.

    Only riposte when he least expects it. Even if this means just blocking all his attacks and making him spam back dodge for nothing.

    Feints eat MaA.

    Seriously, why is their dodge faster than a Broadsword riposte? And of course, before your recovery time has passed they have already dodged back in and landed a quick hit on you.

    This is only the case because the MaA dedicates to the dodge before the instance. To dodge such a fast riposte requires the MaA to hit dodge right as he’s parried. Tell-tale sign of a bad MaA is one who just back dodges after every attack. Another reason why you shouldn’t always riposte against one.
    Not sure what you mean by dodged back in however. The cool down on dodge and time it would take for him to use two dodges and land a hit is much longer than a Broadsword’s recovery time. You wouldn’t even need to panic parry that.

    Unless of course you mean that he matrixes your stab and immediately throws a stab at you and hits you while in recovery. It’s risky to do because he is basically licking the end of your stab release he’s that close but when pulled off it works well because he will be forcing you into parry in recovery or taking a hit normally.

    And if they dodge forward, never try to stab them to retaliate. Always look down overhead if they are dodging forward into you.

    Tl;dr Mind gaming the MaA into a mistake. Being unpredictable like HEXEN said.



  • Heavy crossbow.



  • @lemonater47:

    Heavy crossbow.

    This works too.

    Too bad Knight can’t use it.



  • @lemonater47:

    Heavy crossbow.

    Post of the day.



  • I play knight as my main class also, I’ll go with either bearded, LS, Mace or Messer

    Against unexperienced MAA, just spamming LMB does the trick - an easy way to tell is if they are carry sheild (not on their back)

    Against the really good ones who dodge & try to sneak in attacks like that, I pull out holy water. I find this the fatest secondary & the stab works wonders as it’s a bit faster than broadsword (from what I’ve seen) - so I watch until he is going to dodge forward, I throw the stab out & get them, then can throw in overhead to try turn the fight back to my control. (I’m sure there is many different ways out there, but this one just works best for me cause mAA weapons are fast, so it makes sense to me to get something on par/if not a touch faster)

    I think ideally, the main thing is to not let them take control & to always watch closely what they are doing



  • Best thread on this I’ve seen… all my thoughts elaborated. Knights will always have this issue until they decide to bring MAA back to where they use to be. I still find the decent MAA’s very difficult to deal with, however if you’re happy to deal with being called a ‘feinter’ (which I don’t frankly don’t give a shit about if I’m hunting down flying vanguard morons or MAA class) is to tear them a new asshole with bearded axe, simply miss your first swing (overhead) on purpose (swing early), then overhead again via combo feint; it will hit them 90% of the time before they get a hit in. Alternatively feint and then predict their side dodge and swing that way. Swings and overheads are just as quick with bearded axe. I’m also a fan of broadsword, and I almost always feint the first swing against rank 50’s to see how they will react naturally; I’m a fan of either stabbing then alt swing to left to catch their side dodge or feint stab, alt swing.

    The other way mentioned above is to chase them down, parrying until they’re out of stam then facehug causing panic parries. Decent players will typically move in for a stab then move to your right to over head around your guard - if you develop a natural tendency to deal with this; you’ll be fine.



  • Interestingly enough, I think that most of the problems lie in the parry and stamina systems in addition to the bubble issues that was supposed to help fix the spamming face huggers. Sadly, once one parry fails, it quickly has a cascading failure rate till you get frozen and die.

    I and many others have argued that the bubble was and is a huge mistake when a tweaking of the stamina for spammers and a buff in side speed for most classes would have done the trick. Sadly the one-size-fits-all approach to the parry design is also one of the biggest bottlenecks to the game. Even more frustrating is that there is no way to know exactly where the invisible floating wall of protection is at any one time nor when it is activated or even how wide it is. Along with this we already know that the parry animations are in no way reliable either.

    These are the reasons why I have argued for a two button system for the parry much like the shield. A quick tap and repose parry and a hold-able parry, no different than the shield except that stamina drains would be less than a shield and other changes to the parry window would have to be made. These changes would be to have the window actually attacked to the weapon at all times and to be in relative scale to each weapon. This means that a Halberd would have a much wider parry window than a dagger. The effect of this would be a natural weapons balance making it harder for the faster smaller weapons to parry larger heavy weapons without taking damage. Tweaks to the stamina drain would also need to be changed for further balance.

    With a two button controlled directional parry. It would initially seem that everyone would just hold their parry but the repose would be much slower than a TAP and Repose Parry. So what you have done is added much more player control and depth to the skill level instead of hoping that your invisible parry is activated and in the right location. It would also force different strats with and against both the drag and feint mechanics balancing out both and limiting complaints about both.

    Development fantasies aside, ideally, if someone had the time and the effort to put together a comprehensive tutorial on how every weapon class can defeat every other weapon class. The problem is that most of these suggestions are to switch weapon classes. Well that is hard to do till you die and by that time it is too late unless you are in a duel server. Most other game modes, you will be coming across all of the other classes. Thus it would be awesome to put together something like this. I know I have different strats against each weapon class I go against while playing the same weapon, depending upon weapon. While I would say that not all weapons easily combat a spamming MAA or archer, well played strats can take them down. The problem come back to the old meta game of watching the stamina bar. And we all know when that got changed that so few remember when you had enough to take on more than one player but so few complain about it.



  • I honestly can’t be bothered dealing with them in duels nowadays. If I’m playing knight, I carry around a kite shield and norse sword. Whenever I come up against an MAA I just cheese them out by waiting for attacks and then immediately trading with the norse overhead. It isn’t exactly a fun way to play, but it’s effective.


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