Successful Parry into Parry


  • Developer

    To aid in one vs. many combat situations, should you be able to immediately parry again after making a successful parry?The thought behind this is that it would allow you to block multiple incoming strikes more effectively and result in fewer situations where you could not react to the actions of 2 or more players. If the parry was “missed” or did not successfully block an incoming attack then you would not be able to perform another parry until your recovery finished as normal.



  • Interesting thought. It would make 1v2’s in scrims or high level players more interesting that’s for sure. It would encourage feints (which believe it or not is an okay thing) and missing your strikes intentionally. Would the second parry be any different from a normal parry in terms of ripostes and stamina loss?



  • I think the last thing we need is giving noobs another easily forgiving way to parry right now. I don’t think this is a good idea to the “one vs many” front. I think this will make playing alongside bad/new players trying to beat someone in a 2+vs1 scenario much more frustrating and more messy. Can we get your personal thoughts and opinions as to why you won’t just remove recovery parry and re-add combo feint to parry/feint to parry with heavy stamina loss and no riposte? Or just why you won’t simply remove recovery parry?



  • Tibberius, I believe this was tested once in Balance patch beta 2 or 3, and it was a great idea. I don’t understand why it was taken away, also I believe that this should also apply for if you get flinched, that you should have the opportunity to parry immideantly so that certain weapons with too fast combo time can’t kinda like strike you twice.



  • Definitely something that adds to the defensive part of CMW is good. So currently you parry and I guess there is a recovery period, so this would eliminate it to allow multiple parries very fast - well up to the limit of your stamina.

    Certainly sounds interesting.



  • It would be more natural and more intuitive if the parry worked much like the shield. A tap-able parry and a holdable parry. But I have been a proponent of a total reworking of the parry system. It is quite clear that the one-size-fits-all, invisible floating box that arbitrarily changes location when moving forward or backward while strafing to a 45degree angle regardless of where you are looking is problematic at best.

    As I have stated in many posts, the parry window should be actually attached to the weapon/shield at all times. It should also be relative to the size and scale of the weapon for natural weapon balancing. I believe that these weapon based parry window would be slightly larger in scale than the weapon but relative to size of that weapon meaning that a pole arm’s parry window would be much longer and wider than the parry window of a dagger. This would really focus on parring to become more of a skill than guessing like it currently is. It would also naturally balance weapons so that parring a maul with a dagger would be a very risky proposition. It would also place more emphasis on rage for ranged classes since they would be forced to fight from range and not instantly go into melee against heavy classes without risk like it currently is.

    This system change would also make the parry animations actually work and make directional parries more accurate and effective. You already have a swing trace system for attacks attached to the weapon, why not the same for the parry window. Currently you cannot rely on the parry animation for either yourself or you opponent because they are not an accurate representative of activation or location of the parry window. But if it was attached to the weapon and the projectile protection of the shield applied as well, then the animation would be accurate. This would also give the potential for parrying projectiles if timed correctly. How cool would that be?

    Now add to this a tap and hold parry capability. You have effectively given more power and control to the players hands. This two tiered system would also be a natural counter to feints, drags, and even some of the instant hits depending on which you chose upon defense. It would also force swing manipulations to be more accurate and timing against the parry. The tap parry would work much like the current version with an fast repose and that holdable parry would take longer for a repose.

    The entire idea of immersion and intuitive combat would also be increased as now you can hit under, over or around the parry once the timing and skills were learned. The current parry system is a giant guessing game because you never know for sure when it is active or where the parry window is located at any one time.

    In addition a huge reduction of the collision box - aka the bubble of fail - would also allow a player to possible escape between enemies when being surroinded. Thus making the idea of or getting in to the situation of being surrounded, easier to aviod. Currently the bubble of fail, freezes you in location when surrounded and no amount of parry fixing will fix being bubble stuck.



  • The basic idea is not bad. Its just like riposting but instead of attacking you combo into another parry.

    But with the recent state of defense this would put too much emphasis on parrying. Combine this with panic parry or combo parry and almost everyone turns into a defensive powerhouse before running out of stamina. Also it would take away an advantage of shields (who are already troubled) making them even worse in relation.

    Maybe if combo parry and panic parry say goodbye and recovery starts to mean something again. Maybe if the “unable to parry” window would start immediately after release instead of combo feint. But without buffing defense even more seems wrong to me.


  • Developer

    Just to clarify, you would only be able to launch another parry immediately if your first parry actually blocked an attack - this makes it only useful in 1 vs. many situations intentionally.

    Also Retsnom, your idea is a good one, and one I have thought about before. Its definitely a route we will explore for a future Chivalry title, but unfortunately it would require all of the blocking system and animations for Chivalry to be redone, so outside of the scope for current version.



  • I like the idea.

    I think rewarding good timing against attacks helps the player that is out numbered. It benefits those that anticipate their opponent’s attacks, also along with their own. When they are able to defend successfully, they are rewarded with another chance and they can switch it to go on the offense.

    In an odd way, I think of Chivalry as a fighting game, where combos helps and knowing attacks and when to block/parry goes a long way. However, missing those attacks or blocks ends up getting you punished and could tip the opponent’s favour towards victory. Each move should have reason behind it and I feel like successful parry to parry would be a nice addition that allows you to create some additional strategies. Also, in my opinion, it also helps against players that think that fury attacks is the way to go.



  • You could still give more power in the players hand with a parry that works like the shield. It makes no sense that you can hold up a shield but not a sword? There is no reason why you cannot easily change the parry in that as long as they hold the button down the parry stays up. No change in animation what so ever. Basically the button is pressed and the parry animation starts if it is held down then the animaion pauses at the end frame while keeping the parry window active with a slight stamina drain of course.

    A tap-able and holdable parry solves a lot of problems. The tap parry works just like the current one and the holdable directional parry will do the same thing you are trying to achieve by tweaking how fast you can parry in a row. Technically you should be able to parry as fast as you hit the button if that is all you are doing.

    Granted the biggest problem with fighting more than one person is getting bubble pressed or stuck. If you cannot move you cannot fight. Prior to the dramatic enlargement of the collusion box you could duck and squeeze between the enemy. In many cases you could get them to TK them selves. Currently you just get stuck between the two and no tweaking of the parry is going to help you then.



  • I like the idea.



  • @Flippy:

    I like the idea.

    Which idea exactly? A spamable parry or a tap-n-hold parry?



  • Holdable parries would make shields almost obsolete, it would make them for defending missile attacks only.

    If you want holdable parries then shields need a massive buff.

    Right now, I mainly use shields to protect against feints and long drags, using them to block ranged attacks is a bonus. If parry had the option for a long hold AND the option to riposte on parry then I would never use shields again unless their team was full of archers.

    I like Parry into Parry, it would reward quick thinking and manage fights. It doesn’t solve the problem of 1vMany combat though in that you can’t do any crowd control, you need a second option on parry. Instead of parry into attack, I would like the option of parry into knockback. I want this applied to both parries and shields.



  • @Toll:

    Holdable parries would make shields almost obsolete, it would make them for defending missile attacks only.

    Not really because of the projectiles, like you said. You could even have a a secondary longer parry like the two types of kick. Thus maybe not a full hold parry but a hold longer parry so that you can hold the parry for so long before it drops. It just seems silly that you can hold up a shield and attack with a weapon but cannot hold up a single weapon.

    If you want holdable parries then shields need a massive buff.

    Yes I agree there needs to be some sort of buff to the durability of the shields but may I suggest that the bubble also has the same negative effects on shields as well like it does with the parry.

    Right now, I mainly use shields to protect against feints and long drags, using them to block ranged attacks is a bonus. If parry had the option for a long hold AND the option to riposte on parry then I would never use shields again unless their team was full of archers.

    But not all classes have a shield option for load out. So why punish those weapon classes? Maybe the hold parry should be used for those classes that dont have a shield option.

    I like Parry into Parry, it would reward quick thinking and manage fights. It doesn’t solve the problem of 1vMany combat though in that you can’t do any crowd control, you need a second option on parry. Instead of parry into attack, I would like the option of parry into knockback. I want this applied to both parries and shields.

    The only thing I see a parry into parry having an advantage against LMB spammers and spam classes against the slower classes. You can currently parry more than one person with a single parry, on occasion, if you are lucky. Hell, sometimes it parrys your back as well. The system needs some fixing this is quite clear. But maybe even simply extending the time limit of the parry would be enough.

    But again I will express the notion that it is the bubble that is the biggest problem when fighting against more than one enemy instead of being able to parry faster. If you cannot excape and evade being surrounded no amound of turtling will help you once you are bubble stuck and out numbered. The new meta game is to bubble press people then simply kill them knowing they cannot move or escape.



  • This is an interesting idea. It would go a long way to taking the sting off the lack of CftP if it worked well.



  • Durability of shields isn’t directly the issue, it’s lack of utility. The 3 main utilities of the shield above parries are:
    1. Holdable block = feint/drag protection.
    2. Protection against projectiles
    3. Blocking of multiple attacks in a short time

    With Parry into parry 2 of the 3 main uses of a shield over parry are nullified. So you are left with just Protection against projectiles, certainly not worth using and losing the option of riposte.
    This all applies because the stamina cost of shield is the same or more than parries.

    So don’t get me wrong, I think parry into parry would be much better than panic parry, holdable parries though would indirectly nerf shields into oblivion. UNLESS;

    Unless you make block with a shield cost almost no stamina. Then it would be a completely different option to parries. You could chose to take holdable parries complete with riposte and parry into parry at the cost of noticeable stamina drain offering a much more aggressive play style. Or you could lose riposte, and take a shield with negligible stamina drain for a more defensive play. You always have kick to daze a shield turtle.

    So a shield block that doesn’t cost much stamina gives the shield more utility putting it back on par with holdable parries, albeit with a very different strategy behind it.

    Edit: With this proposed system the immediate issue that comes to mind is a team of shield users holding a shield wall indefinitely. The game-play increasing solution to this is to add hit points to shield, eventually they break, perhaps with a stun included. Axe type weapons should have a bonus to reducing shield hit points, whilst blunt weapons force the shield user to take a stamina hit, slashing weapons do a little of both.



  • @Toll:

    Durability of shields isn’t directly the issue, it’s lack of utility. The 3 main utilities of the shield above parries are:
    1. Holdable block = feint/drag protection.
    2. Protection against projectiles
    3. Blocking of multiple attacks in a short time

    With Parry into parry 2 of the 3 main uses of a shield over parry are nullified. So you are left with just Protection against projectiles, certainly not worth using and losing the option of riposte.
    This all applies because the stamina cost of shield is the same or more than parries.

    How does this parry into parry suggestion protect you from feints and drags? You can only parry again if you’ve just successfully parried.

    Anyway, I think this idea would be fun to try, but can you please make the second parry functionally the same as the first. Nothing silly like no riposte on second parry which just overcomplicates the mechanics. Slightly greater stamina drain would be okay, though, but not so much that you might as well take the hit rather than lose the stam and be useless, if you know what I mean.



  • The only thing missing in the list that I forgot to mention is the stamina pool. Please for the love of sweet, crispy Jesus we need more stamina, especially if we’re going to be seeing the PiP (that acronym is funny) in live. Just revert it to the old stamina pool.

    Now to adjust to the extra stamina, I would propose for each PiP there is a small scaled multiplier. The first parry would be the standard 1x stamina drain. Then in a linear fashion for each parry, the stamina drain would scale. 1.2x, 1.4x, 1.6x, etc. This would make it so if someone was just doing nothing but PiP’ing (LOVE THAT ACRONYM) would drain their stamina much faster.

    PiP4lyfe



  • 600 hours in game, like idea. No, I don’t know how to elaborate sorry, the idea is ok and I like it :)

    Now, any news on the DW front…



  • I think you are confusing two seperate ideas that could be easily solved. But your points are more to do with the one-size-fits all system of the parry to begin with. I would have no problem giving a holdable parry to any class. But you bring up an interesting point. So lets analyze the purpose of a shield. I would say that a shield adds to the armor level of a class more so the actual parry/attack purpose. With this in mind a simple tweak buff to the armor level or health level would make up the difference.

    I do think the stamina drain on shileds is too much but of you think that a holdable parry would take away from the shields then why not have the same drain? The benefit to shield vs parry is projectiles. That alone is a huge advantage. But why should those without a shield option be penailzed for basically the same mechanic? Kicks would have the same stun effect of a parry holder so again that is a mute point. The advantage to shields is against projectiles. I am good with that.


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