Sprint Lockout Discussion



  • Unpopular opinion here and I may change my mind after reading some of your posts, but currently I am for sprint lockout. Sorry Flippy

    True: the main reason for sprint lockout was the “Helicopter vanguards” stomping lowbies in pubs.
    True: defending against a dancer isn’t hard considering people who dance are mid-level players anyway

    However:
    It’s not fun riposting into thin air (do you like fighting MAAs?).
    It’s not fun chasing someone down after parrying them.
    Why give classes besides MAA a dodge essentially?

    Turning and running away after getting parried is anti-fun for the defender, just as an MAA’s get-out-jail-free card is.

    I don’t consider that “footwork” an improvement to the game.

    I am an open-minded individual though and I look forward to “free-sprint” people chiming in. If I may make a request, I ask that one of the first responders lay out a Knight vs. Knight duel scenario where free-sprint improves the duel. It could turn out that we just have a different idea of fun.



  • I really feel like sprint lockout merely adds unnecessary clunkiness to the battle, as does the bubble.
    Seriously, last time I played live I got mad because I parried a Vanguard attack at a distance. Sprint lockout + knockback + the bubble left me unable to get my following attack to land on the fella running away, preparing for a new attack. All thanks to dumb barriers that have no place there.
    Yet another reason I think Chiv+ feels “smoother”.

    You don’t need sprint lockout to avoid “riposting into thin air”, nor to avoid “chasing someone down after parrying them”, in my experience at least.



  • I always loved to dance as a vanguard back then. I was really upset when they removed that.



  • @KevLar:

    True: the main reason for sprint lockout was the “Helicopter vanguards” stomping newbies in pubs.

    True. But newbies don’t stay newbies forever so removing a mechanic solely for them is nonsense. Balancing around new players and scrubs will destroy your balance and the experience for everyone who is not a newbie (scrubs, being scrubs, will still cry on). Thats why you don’t do it.

    @KevLar:

    It’s not fun riposting into thin air (do you like fighting MAAs?).

    You cannot possibly follow a dodging MaA. You can follow a sprinting Vanguard (chase code helps). This way you can land your riposte if you were in the right distance when parrying (if he already outreached you here you would not land the riposte even if he was standing still). If you are not using a short weapon. If you do the bubble kills you - and sprint lockout is the only thing that can save you.
    Note: Thats an anti-bubble agrument not a pro-sprint-lockout argument (save for “Don’t remove sprint-lockout without also removing the goddamn bubble.”)

    @KevLar:

    Turning and running away after getting parried is anti-fun for the defender

    Is it? I don’t think so. Its anti-fun for people with a very passive playstyle as they require the enemy to come to them - and a dancing Vanguard won’t do that. For everyone else its just another playstyle that adds some variety when fighting people (save for scrubs who, being scrubs, hate variety).

    Don’t get me wrong - the idea is not that bad. But it feels like the sprint lockout makes combat more clunky in comparison. I was pro-sprint-lockout until I tried Chiv+ so maybe its not really about the sprint lockout but also about the bubble, recovery/panic parry and CFtP. Sadly there is no way to test different combination since Torn Banner seems to hold on the new stuff while Chiv+ seems to hold on the old ways. All I can say is that the combination in Chiv+ (no bubble, no recovery parry, no sprint lockout, CFtP) feels smoother and less clunky.

    Maybe a intermediate version (e.g. no bubble, no recovery parry, sprint lockout, no CFtP) might be smooth enough without being as “noob-unfriendly” (though in my opinion “no CFtP” is pretty noob-unfriendly, too).



  • I can definitely agree with you that sprint lockout does make things feel more “clunky.” And you’re absolutely right, it could be the combination of knockback, bubble, and sprint lockout. Admitted, I’ve only put a few hours playtime into Chiv+ and it’s been 6+ months since the patch so my pre-patch memory is a little hazy.

    Also, I tend to have a more passive playstyle preferring that the opponent makes the first move so sprint lockout does benefit me :P Chasing down opponents, particularly MAAs, grinds my gears lol.

    I definitely agree that removing mechanics solely for the benefit of newbies is a horrible idea and the main reason for the cursed patch in the first place.

    So a follow-up question for everyone is: would _you_​, specifically, use free-sprint in a 1v1 duel to your advantage? And how?



  • What’s “free-sprint”?



  • It’s wasn’t the hardest thing in the world to deal with. My main problem was that it looked stupid. And it makes more sense getting blocked or parried that it would slow down your movement. Especially whacking a big shield.

    I really didn’t like playing Chivalry: Ballet warfare.



  • Making sense vs. Having fluid, enjoyable combat



  • Making sense vs arcade game.



  • @KevLar:

    So a follow-up question for everyone is: would _you_​, specifically, use free-sprint in a 1v1 duel to your advantage? And how?

    I used free sprint in conjunction with the vanguard’s once impressive speed to effectively control the pace of 1 v 1 duels. By keeping my opponent at maximum distance at all times, I could more effectively gauge when my opponent was going to feint me. Most importantly, it made it easier for me to parry swings. Trying to gauge feint timings and swing directions whilst being face-hugged isn’t fun to me. Kicking is also a boring way of creating distance. It requires you to stop for a moment to shove someone out of the way. That only flies in a 1 v 1 fight. Any other time and you’ll lose a leg.

    Removing the bubble, greatly reducing vanguard weapon knockback (or removing it,) returning the old vanguard speed values (or something short of it,) and removing sprint lockout would make duels far more dynamic, not just for vanguards. More control makes the game more fun. That’s the way I see it.



  • It’ll buff vanguards and MAAs. Knights are too slow and their weapons too short to make any use of it. Except against archers and dumb MAAs.

    So overall knight gets another nerf.



  • @lemonater47:

    Making sense vs arcade game.

    ?
    How is footwork = “arcade game”?



  • @lemonater47:

    It’ll buff vanguards and MAAs. Knights are too slow and their weapons too short to make any use of it. Except against archers and dumb MAAs.

    So overall knight gets another nerf.

    Without sprint lockout even knights can do stuff like this, they are not too slow.



  • @lemonater47:

    It’ll buff vanguards and MAAs. Knights are too slow and their weapons too short to make any use of it. Except against archers and dumb MAAs.

    So overall knight gets another nerf.

    You don’t know much about playing knight then. I did this all the time as a knight.



  • Fvonb - I used the term “free-sprint” as the opposite of sprint lockout. Because the term “sprint lockout” is a negative term, I made up free-sprint to avoid confusing double negatives, that’s all.

    DerFurst - I appreciate the detailed explanation of the scenario. It does make a lot of sense as a way of maintaining distance (making feints easier to read and keeping the opponent at a safe distance), but I sort of agree with lemonator47 here in a way when he said

    @lemonater47:

    It’s wasn’t the hardest thing in the world to deal with. My main problem was that it looked stupid. And it makes more sense getting blocked or parried that it would slow down your movement. Especially whacking a big shield.

    I absolutely don’t want to take away mechanics from the user, and kicks are kinda clunky as well, but it does seems silly that, in Medieval combat, your non-MAA opponent is darting in and out while striking instead of slugging it out toe-to-toe

    EDIT: Also, vanguards don’t really need another way of creating distance what with the somewhat-ridiculous knockback in conjunction with bubble wonkiness



  • @KevLar:

    I absolutely don’t want to take away mechanics from the user, and kicks are kinda clunky as well, but it does seems silly that, in Medieval combat, your non-MAA opponent is darting in and out while striking instead of slugging it out toe-to-toe

    I’ve already accepted the fact that this game is silly. If I hadn’t, I wouldn’t have lasted as long as I have. IMO, I’d rather this game be the romanticized version of Medieval warfare. That way this game takes all the cool aspects of the era and puts them into a video game for the sake of fun, not historical accuracy. In reality, fighting sucks. Unless you’re a psychopath, killing people isn’t supposed to be fun.

    @KevLar:

    EDIT: Also, vanguards don’t really need another way of creating distance what with the somewhat-ridiculous knockback in conjunction with bubble wonkiness

    I did mention that if free-run were to come back vanguard run speeds would have to be changed, knockback removed, and the bubble fixed. Even though knockback is an advantage it’s not a very fun one.



  • There hasn’t been much mention here on the devastating effect this change had in non-1v1 scenarios, especially combined with all the other mechanical changes that came around the same time. Nowadays once you get hit it’s like walking through mud; you want to move faster but can’t, turning group-fights into a sluggish clusterfuck where the most important tool in that situation, footwork, is severely gimped. Group team vs team or one vs many or even FFA fights were once so much more interesting as the better players could take much more advantage of sprint to control and edge the fight in their favour. The ‘sprint-lockout’ significantly reduced both the fun factor of non-1v1 scenarios and was a significant contribution to the extended break I took from this game that I once enjoyed so much more.



  • I’m all for removing sprint lockout as well as reducing vanguard knockback and bubble. I always loved the ability to target someone in the back of the enemy line by parrying and then bolting for them. It was a great tactic to get an entire team turned around so that your own team could flank. Now you run in, parry and get fatted, and then get stuck on everyone’s collision. Everything just feels artificially slow. Hard to plan out attacks when you just get stuck in a variety of ways for no reason.



  • I hate sprint lockout. Makes the game feel so clunky.



  • @Wahoa:

    Nowadays once you get hit it’s like walking through mud; you want to move faster but can’t, turning group-fights into a sluggish clusterfuck .

    @sharkh20:

    Now you run in, parry and get fatted, and then get stuck on everyone’s collision. Everything just feels artificially slow.

    @dudeface:

    Makes the game feel so clunky.

    Nothing to add.


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