Archer balancing.



  • Imagine its not lemon posting this.

    So many people are annoyed at archers in LTS especially competitively. One shotting happening a tad too often and them having too much free reign over the battlefield in small team games. But rather than making archers like DW style yumi bows things should be done to counter archers better.

    Archer nerfs that should happen though.
    -HCB damage nerf so it doesn’t kill them with a body shot. At the moment its too easy. Reduce it do it puts them on 1HP so they actually survive at least. The game should reward aiming instead of aiming in someone’s general direction. Heavy jav should still do it as the MAA is usually aware of them and the archer with them can actually be killed and has a massive penalty if he misses. Its also a bit harder to aim than the heavy crossbow. Its also a massive javelin. Roman Pilum of all things one of the best designed javelins of all time.
    -Longer weapon switch times. Its also very easy to shoot someone close range, swap weapons and then hit them before the enemy has fully recovered. It should be lengthened so if an archer does that close range they are at least forced to parry against a two hander. At the moment they are forced to parry against a one hander but against a two hander they get to swing. And I’d imaging putting away a bow or xbow is a bit harder to do than sheathing a sword.
    -stamina drain for drawing bows. After about 2 or 3 seconds of drawing the bow the player loses say 5 stamina a second until he lets go and fires.

    Shield buffs.
    Buffing shields in melee would mean more people would actually want to use them so they have better defense against archers. No one really wants to use a shield just to deal with archers as they have too much of a penalty in melee. Pretty much a shield is just changing from dying to archers to dying in melee. Plenty of shield bugs have been mentioned so far.

    Smoke buffs. You’ve done well buffing smoke so far but its not that fear against archers though.
    -Make vision blurry. This won’t affect melee combat much at all but can mean archers has a harder time aiming and identifying targets. And combined with the smoke it would make it really hard.
    -make crosshair disappear. Smoke only really affects you when you are in the centre. Take a couple of steps to the side and you can see well enough. But making the crosshair disappear can make it rest hard to aim. It even makes xbows a tad harder to aim properly.

    So these changes mean that players can do more against archers rather than lots of direct nerfs to archers.



  • This is actually a very quality post. The opening line killed me though :P

    I’m all for buffing shields and smoke. That’s way overdue. I think the only archer nerf that really needs to happen is stam drain on arrow draw (as well as stam drain for crossbow reloading). I can explain at length if nobody’s seen my other post about it but I need do my homework. STOP DISTRACTING ME LEMON GAWSH BAN PLS.



  • Wouldn’t mind a stam drain either. Not instantly but if you are holding it for say 2-3 seconds the stam drain kicks in.



  • Heavy crossbow has a massive reload time, sure they can kill 1 vanguard with it, if they hit, but then the rest of the team should smash them. Why is a shield maa/knight not charging down that heavy Xbow? Seems an issue of strategy more than OMG they are OP.

    The problem people have with archers is NOT their ranged, that is the point of archer after all, is that they are equally good in melee as the other classes, this isn’t fair. My proposal is to drastically reduce the archers stamina pool so that they are at a significant stamina disadvantage, a good player can still kill his opponent with a low stamina pool unless he fights someone of similar skill, then he would be boned. Even more so in 1vN fights.

    Leave the ranged stuff alone, it is fine.



  • @Toll:

    Heavy crossbow has a massive reload time, sure they can kill 1 vanguard with it, if they hit, but then the rest of the team should smash them. Why is a shield maa/knight not charging down that heavy Xbow? Seems an issue of strategy more than OMG they are OP.

    The problem people have with archers is NOT their ranged, that is the point of archer after all, is that they are equally good in melee as the other classes, this isn’t fair. My proposal is to drastically reduce the archers stamina pool so that they are at a significant stamina disadvantage, a good player can still kill his opponent with a low stamina pool unless he fights someone of similar skill, then he would be boned. Even more so in 1vN fights.

    Leave the ranged stuff alone, it is fine.

    Heavy crossbow is my favourite archer weapon. Every citadel game I use it on defence. Perfect melee archer weapon tool. Shoot him then stab him. Kill a few more with your team then find a spot to reload. Reloading time isn’t much of an issue. Sure in pubs most archers will fire and run the other direction or be completely useless in melee. But good archers won’t. And good archers are the only archers you will find in competitive play. I don’t use it as a long range sniper. That’s just a perk of the heavy crossbow. Its great close range too.

    Though maybe it doesn’t need a damage nerf if shields an other things are buffed. Its best to make changes slowly.



  • I still just don’t understand the backstab bonus. Never have. If ever a class should not have a melee damage bonus, it is this one.



  • @sharkh20:

    I still just don’t understand the backstab bonus. Never have. If ever a class should not have a melee damage bonus, it is this one.

    I think they should keep it. While an archer isn’t bad at melee combat it isn’t better than anyone else. Archers can just keep up in melee. A MAA outclasses a archer in everyway. Knights and vanguards also have secondaries.

    Though the daggers get me every time. Their overheads are just different to every other weapon. All you have to do is look up slightly to parry them but I always forget to do that.



  • The point here, that you even make yourself, is that archer isn’t bad at melee and can keep up. The problem is, they are just as good in melee as each other class (except maa, but maa is … particularly good at melee) and they totally and utterly outpace every other class in ranged. They are archers, not rangers. They shouldn’t even ‘just keep up in melee’. In melee they should at best be able to hold out until help arrives quickly. A very low stamina pool would simulate this nicely.



  • Or just a larger stamina hit with their weapons. Melee weapons. Except for javs. Thy are supposed to be a hybrid when using them so the stamina values for those should remain. But their two melee secondaries especially daggers should take more of a stamina hit.

    It’ll be easier to balance that way instead of reducing their entire stamina pool.



  • disallow crossbow to aim while reloading, take crosshair away while reloading. So annoying getting shot immediately after because they’re already aiming it.

    That’ or make the pull up time a little longer, i know light cross is probably the worst at this. This way you at least have an idea of when they can shoot. Currenlty you just see archers crouched down reloading and then BAM

    They also shouldn’t override flinch when switching weapons, currently if hit while switching they can immediately throw an attack and flinch a combo.

    plus arrows in general do too much damage to everyone… plz nerf.

    thank you



  • @50ShadesofClay:

    disallow crossbow to aim while reloading, take crosshair away while reloading. So annoying getting shot immediately after because they’re already aiming it.

    ??? what hax is this? you can’t aim while reloading a crossbow. Your character is in a locked animation where you can’t move.

    Flippy is he drunk again.
    @50ShadesofClay:

    That’ or make the pull up time a little longer, i know light cross is probably the worst at this. This way you at least have an idea of when they can shoot. Currenlty you just see archers crouched down reloading and then BAM

    They also shouldn’t override flinch when switching weapons, currently if hit while switching they can immediately throw an attack and flinch a combo.

    plus arrows in general do too much damage to everyone… plz nerf.

    thank you

    And you don’t override flinch when changing weapons. You actually flinch after you change your weapon if you get hit while changing weapons.

    Arrow damage is fine. instead of nerfing lets try buffing other things.

    I think hes definitely drunk.



  • HCB, such an annoying weapon. Agree with most of your points. I honestly think an archer blocking a maul or large 2 hander should be flinched after blocking it. I’ve only been playing archer the last two weeks, it just feels stupid that I can still beat a fully armoured knight wielding a maul with a sabre.



  • Sabre? You’re doing it wrong, shortsword all the way.



  • @Tyoson:

    HCB, such an annoying weapon. Agree with most of your points. I honestly think an archer blocking a maul or large 2 hander should be flinched after blocking it. I’ve only been playing archer the last two weeks, it just feels stupid that I can still beat a fully armoured knight wielding a maul with a sabre.

    Archers don’t block mauls. They parry them. Just stop.



  • @Karasu:

    Archers don’t block mauls. They parry them. Just stop.

    Archers don’t parry mauls, they flinch them. ;)



  • @Karasu:

    Archers don’t block mauls. They parry them. Just stop.

    Deflect, block, repel, parry. It’s the same thing, just spelt and pronounced differently. Stop trying to be smart, you’re just making yourself look stupid.



  • @Toll:

    Sabre? You’re doing it wrong, shortsword all the way.

    I only use the weapons allowed in SaFE ;) Which is either thrusting dagger or sabre, and pebble for archer.



  • 1. Remove crosshair
    2. Remove backstab bonus on every weapon except daggers and nerf them a bit (especially thrusting dagger)
    3. Stamina drain on drawing an arrow (15 for warbow, 10 for longbow and 5 for shortbow)
    4. Stamina drain on reloading xbows (5 for light xbow, 7 for xbow and 10 for heavy xbow)
    5. Stamina drain for aiming with xbows if you’re aiming longer than 3s (5 for light xbow, 7 for xbow and 10 for heavy xbow)
    6. Unable to shot without stamina
    7. Damage and accuracy with bow are based on how long you were drawing the bow



  • @Tyoson:

    Deflect, block, repel, parry. It’s the same thing, just spelt and pronounced differently. Stop trying to be smart, you’re just making yourself look stupid.

    Oh dear.

    Before you get utterly raged at and taken down I’ll explain.

    Blocking is stopping the force. Like with a shield you completely stop the attack.

    Parrying is redirecting the force so it doesn’t hit you. In theory you can parry a maul with a pencil. Hell you can parry a maul with your fists as its not sharp.

    So parrying a maul with a whole dagger is very possible. You wouldn’t break a sweat doing it either. Be glad archers get the stamina penalty they get now.



  • @Tyoson:

    I only use the weapons allowed in SaFE ;) Which is either thrusting dagger or sabre, and pebble for archer.

    YES!

    SaFE is teh unstoppable force and will feed strychnine to your pets!


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