Panic Parry Is Counter-intuitive; Stamina Levels Are Too Low



  • I find the recent panic parry addition to be frustratingly counter-intuitive for two reasons.

    Before it was introduced, my natural reflex when playing with a shield setup, for example, was to sometimes block after taking a swing in certain instances. In doing so, pressing RMB after taking a swing queued the shield (or parry).

    When you’re playing an online MP game with latency, you need to account for lag wherever possible, so queuing a block was the right thing to do in certain situations. But now with panic parry, the game assumes I need an unwanted crutch (immediate block), which happens to eat half of my stamina bar. This just really pisses me off.

    Why is stamina so low in the first place, anyway? Have the devs never seen people wrestle, or box, or do anything physical? Hardcore weight/cardio training for many minutes at a time…? In Chivalry, you take one swing to establish distance (miss) then bring up your shield, and already you’re wheezing and ready to keel over from a heart attack. I really miss the old Chiv.

    My apologies for this turning into a rant. Hopefully something constructive can be taken away from this post… Get rid of this panic parry and increase stamina levels by around 500% would be a good start.



  • Recovery parry is already proven to be unhealthy for the game and is being removed next patch (Well, it’s currently in the beta client), as well as re-adding combo feint to parry and reducing the stamina drain on shields when you block, making them more viable again.



  • As SOC stated, you just described the latest patch that is in Beta currently. Give it a try.

    http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/18447-BETA-Chivalry-Medieval-Warfare-CU-2-Patch-4



  • 500% increase is pretty insane. Wouldn’t it be better to do something about the big stamina eaters? I agree with panic parry being counterintuitive and I think this feature is to make responsible for people running low on stamina so fast.

    This and the brutal drain on shields and when getting kicked. These things should be tackled before moving to the stamina pool.

    It is fairly low and might deserve some increase (like 50-100%). In this case the miss and parry drain should be spread out because they would be too close relative to the overall pool (e.g. dagger and Maul behaving to similar where one should have a significant drain on parry and the other on miss). Also regen might be looked at but I believe keeping the regen would also work with some more stamina.

    Without panic parry and with reasonably shield drain you should be able to hold onto your stamina for while when using a more conserving playstyle. If you are using a lot of special move your stamina pool should dwindle much faster (balanced against the “end of fight” probability).



  • 500% stamina increase? Sweet jesus, it sure sounds crazy, but im not a fan of stamina anyway so it might be a good experiment LOL.



  • This post is deleted!


  • Why’d you put this in the balance section if you were just going to make an argument on realism?



  • @Karasu:

    Why’d you put this in the balance section if you were just going to make an argument on realism?

    I think he just threw the realism stuff in there to solidify his point. Besides, we all get where he’s coming from, no need to nitpick. The current stamina system leaves a lot to be desired, but a 500% increase is waaay too much haha.



  • @LTTLWLF:

    I think he just threw the realism stuff in there to solidify his point. Besides, we all get where he’s coming from, no need to nitpick. The current stamina system leaves a lot to be desired, but a 500% increase is waaay too much haha.

    But my point is that he didn’t even attempt to explain the effect on balance a 500% stam increase would have. He ONLY gave a realism argument. In a balance thread.



  • @HaHawk:

    I find the recent panic parry addition to be frustratingly counter-intuitive for two reasons.

    Before it was introduced, my natural reflex when playing with a shield setup, for example, was to sometimes block after taking a swing in certain instances. In doing so, pressing RMB after taking a swing queued the shield (or parry).

    When you’re playing an online MP game with latency, you need to account for lag wherever possible, so queuing a block was the right thing to do in certain situations. But now with panic parry, the game assumes I need an unwanted crutch (immediate block), which happens to eat half of my stamina bar. This just really pisses me off.

    ^Issue with the game mechanic, in the balance and game mechanics section.

    @HaHawk:

    Why is stamina so low in the first place, anyway? Have the devs never seen people wrestle, or box, or do anything physical? Hardcore weight/cardio training for many minutes at a time…? In Chivalry, you take one swing to establish distance (miss) then bring up your shield, and already you’re wheezing and ready to keel over from a heart attack. I really miss the old Chiv.

    ^Realism + game experience related to issue with mechanic.

    On topic though, this has happened a few times for me, but I really don’t rely on the combo parry all that much because I will try and avoid having to block as much as possible. Needless to say it did get me killed the few times it has happened, will be glad to see panic parry gone.



  • @LTTLWLF:

    ^Issue with the game mechanic, in the balance and game mechanics section.

    ^Realism + game experience related to issue with mechanic.

    On topic though, this has happened a few times for me, but I really don’t rely on the combo parry all that much because I will try and avoid having to block as much as possible. Needless to say it did get me killed the few times it has happened, will be glad to see panic parry gone.

    He talks about 2 different game mechanics. Panic parry (and he provides somewhat of a balance argument) and the stamina values (where he ONLY gives a realism argument).



  • I used panic parry the other day. Saved my life. Funny how CftP was taken away because it let you cover mistakes, yet Panic parry was put in to cover your mistakes… Never mind, glad the current beta has CftP and panic parry gone, oohh yeeahh



  • @Toll:

    I used panic parry the other day. Saved my life. Funny how CftP was taken away because it let you cover mistakes, yet Panic parry was put in to cover your mistakes… Never mind, glad the current beta has CftP and panic parry gone, oohh yeeahh

    I honestly feel like I’ve cheated when recovery parry saves my life. All this time with “the patch,” and I still cling to the old ways. I died in the beta because I tried to recovery parry out of muscle memory. And it felt so freaking good.



  • @Andrew:

    As SOC stated, you just described the latest patch that is in Beta currently. Give it a try.

    http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/18447-BETA-Chivalry-Medieval-Warfare-CU-2-Patch-4

    Thanks for the reminder. Unfortunately, I live in Asia. Wait, that sounded wrong. What I meant to say was that I cannot play on beta servers due to high latency. That’s why I can’t wait for this latest patch to finally go live!!

    As for posting this thread, I wrote it after having a few beers and rage quitting from the only server in my region with a ping below 100 at the time (it was a hefty 90), so I’m sure you can understand my angst.

    However, all of my points still stand!

    Perhaps a 500% stamina increase would be a bit much, but I would not have any problem with the stamina pool of all classes being increased three fold. The gameplay would remain the same, but fights wouldn’t have to be arbitrarily curtailed so quickly as they are in the current version of Chivalry. I guess I’ll just have to reserve my judgment until I play the latest patch.

    Also, it seems as though some posters have completely forgotten that Chivalry’s stamina levels weren’t always this low, nor was the stun time this long, until “the patch that shall not be named” was released last year. Before that patch, swinging at someone and then blocking or cancelling a couple of attacks didn’t make you start wheezing uncontrollably (in fact, that looping huffing and puffing sound wasn’t added until last summer as well). So my complaints have nothing to do with making major changes to the game… The game was originally fine as it was!!!

    Where is Hexen when I need him. He could probably better explain the intricacies of why pre-patch Chivalry was better for delivering souls to Krom than me.

    I suppose my main reason for disliking the current low stamina values is the stun that follows—or pause in the fight if the person low on stamina ducks out of combat to recover stamina. A good bout of melee combat is more often than not cut short as a direct result of the low stamina pool, either ending in a stun-death or a forced lull in the fight, in which case two opponents are forced to stare at each other wheeze and moan. But low stamina values are obviously the worst in 1vsN fights, when you can completely force someone out of stamina within 5 or 6 seconds, leaving them no recourse to fight back.

    Where’s the adrenaline? The burst of energy to get out of danger? Instead, the game forces you into a rage-inducing “Meh, I can’t parry another swing to save myself, I give up” mode as your character model sulks forward, head conveniently extended for the free overhead swing…

    Instead of being unable to move or block, a stun could cause you to be unable to combo, unable to sprint, unable to swing your weapon… anything but the execution stun. It is annoying having a great fight end when my opponent just freezes up in a stun. I rarely take the “free hit” intentionally, and usually just kick them instead, because it feels too cheap… How about during the stun you can still parry or block, but take kick damage or something?

    Of course, you can “choose” to take a hit intentionally without attempting to block an attack when you’re out of stamina, thus avoiding the stun — and the end result is the same. It’s a frustrating “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” mechanic.

    @Karasu:

    Why’d you put this in the balance section if you were just going to make an argument on realism?

    This is the “Balance and Mechanics” section of the game, which is what I’m addressing in this thread: Panic Parry (game mechanic) and Stamina Values (game mechanic).



  • @HaHawk:

    MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT

    After thinking over my post for a few minutes, I probably could have summed it up as asking for the stun value to be reverted to how it was in the original release.

    That way your opponent can still get a free hit on you, but only if they’re quick about it. Otherwise you still have the SLIGHTEST chance of slipping a parry in there. The punishment wasn’t so degrading. You still had a chance!

    But then over half a year after the game was released, someone decided that the stun was “not long enough” because the maul couldn’t take advantage of it. You know, the weapon that was also later changed to one shot every class in the game. Perhaps being unable to take advantage of the stun was a drawback of using the “one-shot-kills-all” weapon in the first place?

    Unnghghhgh… Why do I do even bother…

    :miserable:



  • @HaHawk:

    This is the “Balance and Mechanics” section of the game, which is what I’m addressing in this thread: Panic Parry (game mechanic) and Stamina Values (game mechanic).

    Oh good lord. Then please make a BALANCE argument next time and not a REALISM one.



  • Don’t worry, for the most part everyone here would agree with your assessment.

    I am also looking forward to having this patch go live. Like you, I am limited in my selection of servers (the official singapore ones).

    But yeah, we need more stamina, and shorter flinch times, in my opinion.



  • @dudeface:


    But yeah, we need more stamina, and shorter flinch times, in my opinion.

    At the moment panic parry is simple and costs a bucket of stamina. IMO it helps newbs learn the error of their ways. During high level play if you use a panic parry your at a much greater risk of losing the fight as you just lost a vast portion of your stamina….

    IMO it is a pretty simple system that is only relevant to newbs…

    The previously large stamina pools that we used to have sometimes caused fights to become stale, i prefer the current system where stamina management is very important - it forces different styles of play and punishes time wasting and turtling.



  • The removal of panic parry will finally reward good footwork again, thank you. Please fix the hit boxes on shields though. When I pebble someone directly in the spine who’s holding a shield up facing the other way, it shouldn’t be deflected by the shield…



  • @giantyak:

    The previously large stamina pools that we used to have sometimes caused fights to become stale

    Only if you refused to play the game the way it was meant to be played - with feints. It’s always been kill or be killed, it’s just worse with less stamina because fights aren’t necessarily won by playing better, but won because you caught a guy out (who’s been fighting other people) with only half his stamina bar left.


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