Feedback on CU2 Patch 4 Beta



  • I’ve put in about 5 hours into the beta and about 1000 hours into live; I’ve noticed things and would simply like to give my opinion on it.

    1.) There is no animation for combo parry for 1 hand weapons. It just looks like your moving your weapon back.

    2.) Flinch times, now here is where i have a huge problem with this game. Me and Nova back in the July patch figured out that you could no longer punish a combo feint with the new flinch times even with the fastest weapons. The reduction in flinch shortly after still didn’t solve this problem. However, these concerns were never addressed by either the community or Tornbanner and became the norm. Id like to have the flinch times rolled back to how they were previously.

    3.) With the removal of panic parry, my muscle memory has been tampered with. Now i need to return to doing combos when i miss an attack and add an extra button to my defense. Id like to suggest putting it in the beta with either stamina nerf or buff to see if its compatible with the current cftp. i see cftp and pip as a good step in 1 v x situations but in 1 v 1 i think panic parry is a nice little tool. Why upset players that have already put time and have gotten used to the panic parry feature. I never understood why players complained about this feature when it has a massive stamina penalty. Regardless, if panic parry doesn’t return i’ll simply adapt again to cftp. Id like to test both of them together tho.

    4.) Feint windows being reduced is a direct Nerf to CFTP for obvious reasons. You have less time to decide whether to attack or go into the defensive. It can be left as is; there is no problem here in my opinion. Slower weapons have an advantage in this aspect.

    5.) Handle hits need to be fixed ASAP for all pole-arm weapons. Seriously there are players that abuse this with no remorse. Parrying them is possible but when you throw in feints it becomes a stupid gimmick and id like to see it removed from the game. This or just nerf the polehammer that 2 shots knights with this dumb little trick. (yes im being biased)

    6.) Animation canceling for shields may have returned. More testing on this is required from me. Sorry

    7.) Bubble- Just remove the damn thing, im sure the majority of players that complained about face hugging still have trouble blocking side attacks. The bubble ruined a lot of short weapons and id like to see variety with MAA weapon choices again.

    With this i feel the beta is ready for live but id really like to see the panic parry tested with both the cftp and pip to avoid problems with the players that have never experienced cftp.



  • I agree with everything but i wouldnt want Panic parry back

    good post.



  • I don’t think reintroducing panic parry is necessary. All TB need to do is make an official video describing in full detail all of the changes. I don’t think patch notes will do the trick here, especially since there are so many morons out there who never bother to check them. Of course there need to be patch notes, but I really feel that TB has to make a video detailing all the changes BEFORE the patch goes live.

    But I disagree with handle hits. Currently the only idea that I think would work would be Fvonb’s, where he just simply removed the tracers from the very lowest part of the weapon’s model. This would go for a lot of two handed weapons, including Greatsword, Zweihander, all the polearms, etc. It would still allow you to hit people faster in face hugging range, but prevent it from being practically instant.

    But right now I don’t think we need to mess with them. In the future, maybe. But for now we need to set our priorities on the more important things.



  • @ŠïN:

    1.) There is no animation for combo parry for 1 hand weapons. It just looks like your moving your weapon back.

    There is an animation but it is slow and looks weak - not like a parry should look. It should ba faster and look more powerful. Also the animation is far to the right so you could get the impression that combo parry requires you to aim more to the left - which is not the case.

    Then there are the CFtP animations: for onehanders they were already there and for polearms they look okay. But every other twohanded weapon just instantly teleports into idle position after feinting - which is really strange if the strike did end on the left side. I think combo feint should either move the weapon into another position (like “Pflug”-guard or similar stances) - or the twohanded idle stance should be changed.

    @ŠïN:

    2.) Flinch times […] 5.) Handle hits […] 7.) Bubble

    Those thing really need to be addressed but I would like to bring the current beta to life before and include them into the next one asap.

    @ŠïN:

    3.) With the removal of panic parry,

    No, the game is much better without. It just hurts combat flow and makes missed attacks or ill timings a stamina issue instead. There are still plenty defensive options available but they are less “brainless” to use (and thus also less likely to burn your stamina by accident) - if you really want some quick defense you can try a shield with combo block. But be careful: Its not that easy to use and vulnerable to kicks.

    @ŠïN:

    4.) Feint windows being reduced is a direct Nerf to CFTP for obvious reasons.

    I like the feint windows how they are. One might even consider widening the window for defensive feints only (if you feint late you need to wait before you can attack - CRUSHEDs suggestion) - but then you should have an animation to tell you otherwise it could be perceived as inconsistence. Not quite sure if combo parry should have this though - might need some testing -> next beta maybe?

    @ŠïN:

    6.) Animation canceling for shields

    Shields are a little inconsistent here. Or better: The Buckler. When using it as MaA, Archer or with a flail its a small shield with less down-time and a little more stamina drain (drain values seem much better in beta). If you use it as Knight with another weapon you get a clunky shield with a forced-up animation that seems to not reflect the actual behavior. So either add the forced-up animation to all shields but also make it work like it looks (aka “it should block attacks”) or remove it for the Knight Buckler.



  • I don’t mind the removal of panic parry, however Combo Parry is still in, but kind of pointless to keep around unless the following is done; I propose this:

    1. Combo Parry should only require 5 stamina to perform (possibly even 0)
    2. Combo Parry to remain ripostable
    3. CFtP to be non-ripostable.
    4. Combo-feinting back to 15 stamina cost
    5. Flinch times for 2 handed weapons to 0.9 (from 1.0)

    both 4 and 5 should be omitted together if either or is not desired, because they are directly correlated to each other.

    These suggestions would give a reason for Combo Parry to even be in the game other than to avoid hit-trades and keep CFtP from being too overpowered.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    …and keep CFtP from being too overpowered.

    Huh? You can only CFtP 3 times before running out of stamina, even less if it’s in the middle of a fight or during your combo you missed a lot of swings. It’s not overpowered at all.



  • If you can only do it 3 times then its totally fine.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    1. Combo Parry should only require 5 stamina to perform (possibly even 0)

    5 seems fair as you already got a risk involved. But as a special (aka non-basic) move it should require some stamina - you get around recovery after all (and it should not be possible when out of stamina).
    @NoVaLombardia:

    1. Combo Parry to remain ripostable

    No. The potential gain is already high enough without riposte (or too high with riposte). Thats also why I agree with this:
    @NoVaLombardia:

    1. CFtP to be non-ripostable.

    If riposte was to cost some stamina - a change I would welcome - then maybe combo parry could get riposte but CFtP should not have this because its basically a last minute defense.
    @NoVaLombardia:

    1. Combo-feinting back to 15 stamina cost

    Can’t really comment on this because I use every kind of feint sparingly.
    @NoVaLombardia:

    1. Flinch times for 2 handed weapons to 0.9 (from 1.0)

    I think the game should get rid of the 1H/2H distinction in flinch times and make them depend on the specific weapon (Claymore flinching longer than Falchion or Morning Star doesn’t make that much sense but Maul flinching longer than Hunting Knife does). Alternatively flinch could be of equal length for all weapons - but this might favor fast weapons a little too much (see pre-summer patch).



  • You clearly have no rational understanding of the mechanics if you think riposte should be removed from CftP. Because that is the reason you can actually fight 1vN with it and that is the reason people want it in the first place. Damn, i thought that was obvious enough by now.

    Flinch should definetly be all equal for 2h and 1h.

    I suggest lowering the 2H flinch to 0.8 or 0.85



  • @CRUSHED:

    I suggest lowering the 2H flinch to 0.8 or 0.85

    Getting smashed in the face with a lookdown overhead while i combo is something i can’t agree with, weapons like the grand mace would just obliterate most knight setups and have the advantage of trading hits against the rest of the classes (even the longsword could do that) and just to punish combo feints like sin said?. I always had issues with knights who just wanted to trade hits instead of actually playing the game, it didn’t feel like a natural way to disrupt the rhythm of your opponent (felt game breaking to me). I’d say 0.9 max for 2hs, 1hs can go to hell =P

    I don’t mind if panic parry gets reworked and stays or if parry gets reworked, i don’t want to be forced to CFtP every time like back in the day, specially now that it actually costs stamina LOL.



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  • @ashvins:

    Getting smashed in the face with a lookdown overhead while i combo is something i can’t agree with, weapons like the grand mace would just obliterate most knight setups and have the advantage of trading hits against the rest of the classes (even the longsword could do that) and just to punish combo feints like sin said?. I always had issues with knights who just wanted to trade hits instead of actually playing the game, it didn’t feel like a natural way to disrupt the rhythm of your opponent (felt game breaking to me). I’d say 0.9 max for 2hs, 1hs can go to hell =P

    I don’t mind if panic parry gets reworked and stays or if parry gets reworked, i don’t want to be forced to CFtP every time like back in the day, specially now that it actually costs stamina LOL.

    You could never do that on perfect combos and only with very few weapons. And you could still parry that attack.

    Also this was never a real problem, the problem with the flinch right now is way, way worse.



  • You want to know what a real problem is ashvins?

    Try flinching a last ms grandmace combo feint after you get hit from it

    You wont even get a hit trade.

    Not even with norse+shield lookdown overhead inside the enemys body.

    I tested it. Its broken.



  • @CRUSHED:

    You want to know what a real problem is ashvins?

    Try flinching a last ms grandmace combo feint after you get hit from it

    You wont even get a hit trade.

    Not even with norse+shield lookdown overhead inside the enemys body.

    I tested it. Its broken.

    Norse+shield overhead has been broken for fucking yonks, I don’t understand how this couldn’t be fixed in a single day. Most 1 hander + shield L.O start on top of a players hit box, it’s the fact that they come out so much faster than they are supposed to. There shouldn’t be any time difference between a overhead when using a shield and an overhead without a shield.

    The time difference is equivalent to the old alternative attack bug being faster than the primary attacks.

    Fucking stupid.



  • Yeah i know they are broken DokB.

    Just wanted to demonstrate that even with such a fast setup you **dont even get a hit trade on a last ms combo feint interrupt

    **Let that sink in, how broken the 2H flinch atm is^^



  • Are you talking about Release+Combo+Windup or Combo+Windup? Because you should be able to hittrade or even flinch when hit early during Grandmace release (getting flinched instantly after windup gives you the same timer the Grandmace attacker gets). So if he feints it should ba possible to flinch him. Thats quite specific - but it should be possible.



  • actually yeah, i wouldn’t mind seeing flinch timers based on the speed of the attack and/or average combo times of the weapon.



  • @CRUSHED:

    You clearly have no rational understanding of the mechanics if you think riposte should be removed from CftP. Because that is the reason you can actually fight 1vN with it and that is the reason people want it in the first place. Damn, i thought that was obvious enough by now.

    CftP is not needed for 1vN but it makes it easy mode. What people who don’t play TO or any other teammodes know is the real 1vN killer, no teammate flinch, you can slash through your teammate and both of you will be able to hit the enemy. You can send your teammate flying 1-2 meters so his attack hits or goes around the opponents block because all of a sudden it’s coming from anther direction. This is annoying and should be gone, reinsert the teammate flinch.
    But yeah it’s gonna be so much “fun” with easymode CFtP again, at least I won’t have to use footwork as much, I can just keep on buttonmashing.



  • @Evil:

    Are you talking about Release+Combo+Windup or Combo+Windup? Because you should be able to hittrade or even flinch when hit early during Grandmace release (getting flinched instantly after windup gives you the same timer the Grandmace attacker gets). So if he feints it should ba possible to flinch him. Thats quite specific - but it should be possible.

    no im talking about a last ms combo feint on grandmace after getting hit by it first

    its not possible to flinch it, not even with a norse reverse overhead

    @Xylvion:

    CftP is not needed for 1vN but it makes it easy mode. What people who don’t play TO or any other teammodes know is the real 1vN killer, no teammate flinch, you can slash through your teammate and both of you will be able to hit the enemy. You can send your teammate flying 1-2 meters so his attack hits or goes around the opponents block because all of a sudden it’s coming from anther direction. This is annoying and should be gone, reinsert the teammate flinch.
    But yeah it’s gonna be so much “fun” with easymode CFtP again, at least I won’t have to use footwork as much, I can just keep on buttonmashing.

    yeah man true so easy mode maybe you should stop playing pubs with rank 30s



  • Yeah. Against decent players it means you can possibly survive long enough to capitalize on a mistake one of them makes. Although with current stamina values… that mistake needs to happen quickly.


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