Vanguard Sword Charge



  • The current vanguard sword charge animation is a leap forward followed by a wide angled slash. The damage isn’t much better than a regular swing and there’s really not much tactical advantage gained from using it, save for knocking people away from you or killing an archer.

    If it’s not overpowered then why don’t I like it? Well, let’s be honest. This attack is annoying as hell for no reason.

    The vanguard’s polearm charge attack is perfectly fine. It’s reasonably difficult to hit people with and you’ll probably only hit one person with it. If you manage to kill someone in one hit by aiming your charge into their head, pat yourself on the back because you earned it.

    But then, there’s the sword charge. God damn this attack. It doesn’t kill you, it’ll almost always hit you, and even if you parry it you’re sent flying, likely out of the fight you were just in. There isn’t a single pub match where you aren’t going to be hit by this at least once from every angle, by your enemies or your team. You’ll probably even kill the guy who just charged at you no problem. But holy hell is this attack annoying. This swing drags forever, has a huge arc, stuns you when you’re hit, and knocks you straight out of the action. There’s literally no redeeming qualities to this attack. The only thing it really does is piss you off.

    Here’s my solution to this. Instead of this attack being a slash, make it an overhead straight into the ground. Make this overhead literally be a swing straight down from the center of the vanguard in a vertically bisecting motion. Make this attack hit the ground fast enough that there’s no potential to drag it and hit other people. The VG swords are already good enough at crowd control LMBing - they don’t need a wide angled charge too. The knockback issue with this attack would be solved in that you’d only be able to hit one person in front of you, maybe two if someone was standing directly behind the other. Instead of 5 vanguards charging into each other knocking each other back while poor knights and men at arms are caught in the middle, these trash vanguards would actually have to aim this attack or get sidestepped and ganked.

    Right now there’s no way to punish these sword charges effectively. They’re too wide for you to sidestep and if you try to jump over it the vanguard can just drag it into your feet. I know that a quicker solution would be to just make the swing faster, but that’s a patchwork job. To really fix vanguard sword charges to so they can be both fun and purposeful, the entire premise of the attack has to be changed.

    tl;dr VG sword charges suck dick, would suck less if an overhead instead



  • This has been suggested by so many people now, and for good reason. The current slashing motion is so wonky and easy to manipulate, it completely overshadows the polearm/spear charge primarily by the lack of skill required to wreak havoc with it. An overhead motion would be so much better for the game, although my only issue would be balancing it against the pole/spear charge, as it would grant a greater chance of connecting with the head (theoretically anyway). Wouldn’t mind hearing a devs perspective though.



  • +1 10chars



  • i don’t really mind the current attack since they fixed it, i just wish after parrying it would be like 25 stam instead of half. I’ve been in fights where i’ll have to parry 2 people then some jerkoff charges in and i parry that too and i’m stunned.



  • Meh. Useful against archers and a group of idiots. Or sneaking up behind someone. Or a group.



  • It has some wonky interactions with the collision bubble you can use to your advantage. If you charge somebody and miss him there is a good chance of getting stuck mid air - and you got all the time to drag.

    In my opinion charge needs some overhaul: It should not be possible to charge it up by running in circles and you should not be able to drag it that much. Instead it should be performed faster. It should be an attack that needs you to run in a (relatively) straight line for a short distance and then deliver the whole impact force to the enemy with a heavy jumping attack (all with heavy damage, stagger, stamina drain and knockback). Think of an extra-powerful jump attack. In this regard the swords should get an overhead strike instead of a slash.



  • I also agree it would be much improved as an overhead swing. It’s daft as it is.



  • @Evil:

    It has some wonky interactions with the collision bubble you can use to your advantage. If you charge somebody and miss him there is a good chance of getting stuck mid air - and you got all the time to drag.

    In my opinion charge needs some overhaul: It should not be possible to charge it up by running in circles and you should not be able to drag it that much. Instead it should be performed faster. It should be an attack that needs you to run in a (relatively) straight line for a short distance and then deliver the whole impact force to the enemy with a heavy jumping attack (all with heavy damage, stagger, stamina drain and knockback). Think of an extra-powerful jump attack. In this regard the swords should get an overhead strike instead of a slash.

    Good ideas but but I prefer the slash. As with the sword attack you can get multiple people in one go.



  • @lemonater47:

    Good ideas but but I prefer the slash. As with the sword attack you can get multiple people in one go.

    I know the idea of making it harder to kill multiple archers at once is a scary thought but think about how this swing affects the rest of game. You might actually be able to fight you way out of a mosh pit without a bunch of vanguards flying in from all angles, one after the other, to get consecutive stuns and kill you.



  • High risk, high reward. The reward is an instant kill. I would like to see the sword charge and polearm charge get a new animation similar to the secondary weapon charge (a simple slash down the sagittal plane). The polearm should also receive this change because an overhand slash downward is more likely to hit the head of your opponent than the current straight forward charge. This would resolve a lot of annoying aspects of sword vg’s and their incessant need to charge attack into groups. Would also allow for better use of the vanguard special ability around your own team (if you’re using a sword, you almost should NEVER use vanguard special because you’ll likely waylay your own team). You could give the sagittal plane slash attack a slight angle too, like the secondary weapons, so it has some drag potential, but not nearly as much as the sword charge right now.

    Also of note: many vanguards I’ve fought recently have learned the fine art of colliding bubbles while sword charging. This leads to one of two situations; their sword charge attack hits you instantly, or they delay it and your parry is mistimed.



  • @lemonater47:

    Good ideas but but I prefer the slash. As with the sword attack you can get multiple people in one go.

    Multiple teammates*



  • @Chimpanzer:

    Multiple teammates*

    +1

    /10teammates



  • What makes this attack laughable is that it’s actually rewarded with 1 shots on maa and archers. It’s no wonder vanguards make up half the population. Remove the 1 shots and the knockback ability and we might see more people playing knight.



  • @Hammertime:

    What makes this attack laughable is that it’s actually rewarded with 1 shots on maa and archers. It’s no wonder vanguards make up half the population. Remove the 1 shots and the knockback ability and we might see more people playing knight.

    The best part is when you feint a knight and then one shot him with the polehammer charge.



  • @Hammertime:

    What makes this attack laughable is that it’s actually rewarded with 1 shots on maa and archers. It’s no wonder vanguards make up half the population. Remove the 1 shots and the knockback ability and we might see more people playing knight.

    What the easist attack to counter in the game? That doesn’t actually one shot MAAs.



  • @lemonater47:

    What the easist attack to counter in the game? That doesn’t actually one shot MAAs.

    Easiest to counter, when it animates properly. Sheesh, I’ve seen vanguard sword charges literally drag themselves in a near 360 arc.

    Oh and like Gauntlet said, It seems as though sometimes charges hit before their animation ends, possibly because of bubble, possibly for other reasons. I’ve noticed it to be more of a problem with polearm/spear charges.



  • @SHH_:

    Easiest to counter, when it animates properly. Sheesh, I’ve seen vanguard sword charges literally drag themselves in a near 360 arc.

    Oh and like Gauntlet said, It seems as though sometimes charges hit before their animation ends, possibly because of bubble, possibly for other reasons. I’ve noticed it to be more of a problem with polearm/spear charges.

    Ive seen an almost 180 charge but that’s it. And that completely missed everyone. It always animates properly. When you hear EUUUAAAGHH then some dude flying at you I think its a good time to parry. Often jumping is a great idea if he’s behind you. The swing is low to the ground so you can often jump it if not it deals reduced damage to your feet. If its a sword one anyway.

    The bubble has Absolutely NOTHING to do with tracers and hitboxes. If its hitting you before it hits you that’s lag or tracer issues you should of parried earlier. They can’t feint doing a charge can they. You can parry as early as you want.



  • Charge should just be reverted to the old slow one. It was still decent when sneaking up on archers or w.e and the risk/reward was appropriate. Now it just a shit gimmick that causes more team damage than anything .



  • I very much agree that the current Vanguard charge with swords is just too easy to manipulate. Other attacks you can dodge (as other classes too) but the Vanguard sword charge is so wonky it’s often a guessing game as to whether you’re in range or not, I find it ludicrous how the Vanguard can move around after landing, and thus put you in the strike-zone of his sword that would have been a couple paces out of your reach.

    A very good suggestion to make it more of an accelerated overhead, very powerful, but then that’s what the “huuuuuuhhh!” “HYYYYYY-AH!” sound is there for, to forewarn you of a powerful attack.

    I like the suggestion and never thought of it myself. Great idea!



  • Agreed it should feel more like a conditional power attack than a pouncing gimmick.

    @ŠïN:

    Charge should just be reverted to the old slow one.

    No please! No hovering Vanguards again!

    I think it should charge up faster but when you turn you need to charge up again. There charge attack itself should be swift and powerful but not (or only to a very limited amount) draggable. Make it deal damage and knockback as soon as you collide with something but reward a longer travel time with higher damage and knockback.


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