Things that should be prioritized.



  • Shield on back still counts as bonus hitbox,thus making your character model bigger and easier to hit for enemies.
    Vanguard pole-arm “handle-hits”, self-explanatory really. Just move the release a few milliseconds later on in the attack (make the wind up take up the first few milliseconds of the release), it will match the animations better and it’s a no-brain fix that can’t backfire.
    Remove fast kick, remove kick being able to flinch in release, remove the stamina drain that the kicked person receives.
    Multiple reasons for this nerf: "Kicks right are too strong, they create space between you and your opponent, do damage, flinch, drain stamina + miss stamina drain if you kick someone while they are attacking,so they will run out of stamina first even though you are the one kicking.
    Right now there is no reason not to kick if you are uncertain of your opponent’s actions.
    Try to fix phantom and ghost swings, i know some will always exist due to bandwidth etc, but they are far more frequent now than pre-july patch.
    Knights cannot catch up with men at arms with the assistance of the chase mechanic.
    Chase mechanic unreliable.
    Men at arms are still quite overpowered (this is an opinion), cause it is always cheaper(stamina-wise) to dodge away than to actually parry (plus you don’t have to worry about delays,accelerations,directional stabs and feints if you dodge) you know all that nasty stuff that goes around parries ;) .
    Reduce the bubble on the rear of the character models.
    Crossbows are still a bit OP but i think i heard a nerf was coming.
    Getting stuck on people.
    Vanguard pole-weapons have too much stamina-drain and knockback for the reach,damage and speed they poses.(Halberd and pole-hammer primarily)
    Longsword should be able to 3 hit knights to the torso.
    Pavise committing seppuku for no fucking reason.
    The option to remove bonus respawn time for team damage.
    That was pretty much everything i could think of that needs “ASAP” fixes.
    If i forgot something i will edit it in.
    Listed in no particular order.
    I would love to hear some arguments for the balance stuff i listed.



  • knights can catch up to maa with chase mechanic, its just that chase mechanic is inconsistent and unreliable.

    the mechanic lasts for like 2 seconds for me and then stops for like 3 seconds…. repeat – really annoying.



  • I think that’s how it was intended to work ?
    That’s why i wrote you can’t catch up with it.



  • @Shard:

    Remove fast kick

    No way - because of facehugging. You need quick kick to get rid of people just running as close as possible all the time. I am okay with nerfing the range, making the damage blockable (or setting it to 0) and removing flinch from it though. But I think the kick should stay as quick short range knockback tool.
    @Shard:

    Men at arms are still quite overpowered

    Dodge is pretty stupid in my opinion. You can escape most situations if the enemies don’t put a lot of effort in catching you. Most people seem to prefer increasing the stamina cost but I think shortening the range (thus making drags more effective creating less distance to be closed again) would do better gameplay wise - away from “if in doubt dodge back” to “chose your direction by situation”.
    @Shard:

    Two-handed flinch is a bit too long

    Definitely for the faster weapons. Its okay on very slow ones like Maul and Zweihänder. But the 1H/2H distinction isn’t the right one in my opinion. Should be speed or damage based.
    @Shard:

    Reduce the bubble on the rear of the character models.

    Reduce the bubble in all directions. Only reducing it at the rear would not reduce a lot of clunkyness in group fights. When combined with a handle hit solution the bubble can be removed entirely. This should also include a reach nerf for daggers.
    @Shard:

    Crossbows are still a bit OP but i think i heard a nerf was coming.

    There is a popular suggestion of adding stamina drain to ranged weapons. Crossbow should also get increased reload times and the lookup reload should be removed.
    @Shard:

    That was pretty much everything i could think of that needs “ASAP” fixes.

    What about arrows disappearing mid flight? The Pavise blowing up when somebody sneezes?



  • @Evil:

    There is a popular suggestion of adding stamina drain to ranged weapons.

    Popular? Maybe to butt hurt players.

    The suggestion would just make melee with an archer annoying and make no difference to the amount of arrows people eat.



  • Worst paragraphs EU.

    lel.

    Hmm…

    @Shard:

    Vanguard pole-arm “handle-hits”, self-explanatory really. Just move the release a few milliseconds later on in the attack (make the wind up take up the first few milliseconds of the release), it will match the animations better and it’s a no-brain fix that can’t backfire.

    Handlehits need fixing for sho - by now everyones had a few handlehit insta-deaths: and I think this solution seems as you say - a total nobrainer. Quick fix for an exceptionally irritating stain on gameplay.

    @Shard:

    Remove fast kick, remove kick being able to flinch in release, remove the stamina drain that the kicked person receives.
    Multiple reasons for this nerf: "Kicks right are too strong, they create space between you and your opponent, do damage, flinch, drain stamina + miss stamina drain if you kick someone while they are attacking,so they will run out of stamina first even though you are the one kicking.
    Right now there is no reason not to kick if you are uncertain of your opponent’s actions.

    I dont duel as much as i used to - but christ: it doesn’t half seem like every fight I take about 3 quick/kicks just as i’m about to land a grandmace on some foo’. I agree that right now it has too many positives to its use, and should get dumbed down a touch. Flinch in release is, for me what makes it so annoying - and the true source of its dumb power.

    @Shard:

    Knights cannot catch up with men at arms with the assistance of the chase mechanic.
    Chase mechanic unreliable.

    Chase mechanic moar reliabru pleas. This makes me fucking rage. You’re playing knight. You’ve cornered some scrub MAA who is half dead at last and prepare to stick the boot into the little shit with unlimited feints and hittrades and he just turns around and runs away… and of course you cant catch him. Then you get hit by a crossbow bolt. Then he turns and sticks his norse sword into your defenceless body. Knights are already a MAAs wet dream, and currently you cant even catch the gits when they’re actually fleeing.

    @Shard:

    Men at arms are still quite overpowered (this is an opinion).

    I agree - but I think that MAA is only in need of a mild movementspeed nerf or something, for now. I’d hate to see the class absolutely castrated - but currently the unlimited manouvrability can really be ridiculous in moderately good hands. I’d like to comment that I have a couple of screens of ME using MAA and getting pretty damn good scores with it against good players (albeit in pubs), and I can confirm i find it far easier to take on two or three opponents at once with MAA (broadsword obv) than I do with knight. Unlimited manouvrability. Im not pro mlg maa - and this effectiveness in my untrained hands worries me. I dont even use dodge.

    Although ultimately, its the fecking vanguards that need hitting with the double ended nerf-saber. Movementspeed/damage/reach/knockback/weaponspeed. Christ. Immediate sorting is necessary on that. Theres no conceivable argument to that point.

    Its better than knight in pretty much every way, AND most of its weapons two shot knights, with massive draggability and more reach - barely even slower, if not faster. GS, Zwei, Polehammer, Halberd, Claymore, Brandi: all these weapons are ridiculously good compared with anything in the knights locker: only the individual skill of the knight player can bridge that.

    And knight needs a little buff to most of its weapons anyway otherwise its just Maul city USA, erryday. Certainly dont nerf the maul without nerfing vanguard cus currently: target switching with the maul is all the knight really has on vanguard - and thats in good hands.

    –-------------------

    And on that bombshell im going to bed because my jimmies are extremely rustled even thinking about Vanguards, and ive severely deviated from the actual OP because of my incandescent rage



  • Fast kick has no drawbacks as it is now and that’s the problem.
    A nerf be could a solution but it would have to be a big one: No release flinch,kicked player doesn’t receive stamina drain and setting the damage to 0.
    We don’t have unique flinch times for slower/faster weapons and that’s why i said the flinch time for all two-handers is a bit too high.
    It would be too much of a fuss for each weapon to have it’s own flinch time, just reduce the one we have now a bit and all should be fine.
    Handle-hits only happen with Vanguard pole-arms, the solution i stated above would fix this without changing the overall speed of the weapon.
    Bubble doesn’t need reduction in all directions(maybe the tiniest bit, would need a lot testing), only from the back because it has no functional purpose there.
    Adding stamina drain for ranged weapons would be stupid since it would only make it harder for archers to fight in melee.
    Longer Reloads seem like a good start.
    I don’t play archer very often so i don’t know about arrows randomly disappearing.
    Added: Pavise exploding for no reason.



  • @Evil:

    There is a popular suggestion of adding stamina drain to ranged weapons.
    @gregcau:

    Popular? Maybe to butt hurt players.

    The suggestion would just make melee with an archer annoying and make no difference to the amount of arrows people eat.

    Well that’s kind of the point, why shouldn’t archers have to manage their stamina like everyone else? I think a lot of people share the opinion that archers are too good in melee at the moment so this is one small change to rectify that.

    Also if someone with a shield is losing stamina when holding it up because they’re being shot by archers it seems fair that archers should get at least a small stamina drain. I think the stam drain should be more or less the same as holding up a shield; you get a few seconds for free and then it starts to drain slowly. It’s actually a better way than the current system where you can hold it up for a while and then it gets unloaded after a few seconds.



  • Or crossbows, which you can hold up indefinitely, and then shoot a laser beam across the map.



  • Handle hits allso happen with grandmace and maul… and poleaxe? (not sure about poleaxe)



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Handle hits allso happen with grandmace and maul… and poleaxe? (not sure about poleaxe)

    Don’t forget the Greatsword and Zweihander.



  • also with polehammer its really bad

    anyway agree with most of it

    +1 on the 2h flinch, fast kick and maa part

    i dont think longsword should 3hit knight with bodyshots unless you buff sow aswell



  • A weapon hitting a team mate should lead to an immediate return to ready for the TKing player, no chance to parry or combo no follow through of the swing.



  • @Toll:

    A weapon hitting a team mate should lead to an immediate return to ready for the TKing player, no chance to parry or combo no follow through of the swing.

    This would ruin scrims. Pls no.



  • Like HEXEN displayed in that video, the front proportion of the bubble hurt the game just as much as the back of it.
    This especially applies when fighting MaA’s. Thanks to the bubble and the player collision, they can pretty much always backwards dodge away from most weapon strikes, even if you know exactly what they’re going to do and chase after them. The bubble completely halts your character much too far away from the MaA, no matter where to he’s moving, and with an easy dodge + eventually taking a few extra steps back with that movement speed, he’s never in danger. Forward chase also helped before, but it wasn’t a necessity. And of course, cftp which we are getting back. Also, I think Knights moved somewhat faster before, not sure.

    I personally don’t think the MaA class should be nerfed yet, I want to see how it plays out after the most important changes have gone through. (Bubble, cftp, etc.)

    Not that this was an MaA thread or anything, this just came to my mind when reading your post, Shard.



  • there should be an option to reflect team damage back to the one who dealt it, at least for public servers.



  • Comprehensive list, I’d put having an effective chase mechanic at the top.



  • @Flippy:

    Don’t forget the Greatsword and Zweihander.

    Not at all, those weapons have good accelerations but the hitboxes match the animations pretty well.
    On pole-arms the weapon is behind your opponents head and you get hit without any warning. Now some would say just parry early, and the problem appears when you add feints and delays to the equation, since those are completely unreadable if you parry early.
    And i don’t think SoW needs a buff since it can 3 hit both knights and vanguards to the chest, while LS can’t. I agree that LS shouldn’t 2 hit VGs to the chest but it should 3 hit knights. 4 hits with such a weapons is just ridiculous balance-wise since most one-handed swords 4 hit the knight.
    And lastly, i agree that the bubble needs tweaking ( like pretty much everything in this game ). But it has no purpose on the rear side of the models and therefor you wouldn’t need testing for such a change.



  • @Shard:

    I agree that LS shouldn’t 2 hit VGs to the chest but it should 3 hit knights. 4 hits with such a weapons is just ridiculous balance-wise since most one-handed swords 4 hit the knight.

    The other way around. Its okay to twoshot Vanguards (would make it as good as the SoW in terms of damage) but its not okay to threeshot Knights (which is a stronger requirement with cutting weapons).

    Its a sword after all - and as you said most onehanded swords don’t kill a Knight with 3 hits. Cutting damage is supposed to have a weakness here. If anything buff the HTK against Vanguards and increase the speed a little bit. Also keep in mind that you can kill a Knight in 3 hits if you hit his head once - you can’t do that with a Broadsword which needs 3 head hits. Making the Longsword threeshot Knights in the torso would just move it to close to other weapons that are supposed to work better here (thinking of Axes and Cleavers) and create unneeded competition* . The Longsword can work perfectly fine in its own niche.

    *Which the Longsword tends to win because its quite fast (not fast enough in my opinion as its supposed to be a Longsword), quite long and deals a mixture of cutting (most effective against lighter classes) and piercing (the overall most efficient) damage. If you argue the Longsword is too weak because it deals slightly less damage against Knights than say the Holy Water Sprinkler you are missing the point.



  • I think 3 longsword hits to the torso should leave a knight at 1-2HP. This way you can kick him to death right after your swings if he’s not paying attention.

    Fast kicks should still deal damage in my opinion, but they should have shorter range and less stamina drain. The range nerf will be an issue if bubble is not reduced first, though.


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