Vertical swing cap



  • A few patches ago there was a vertical limit like we have for the horizontal swings.

    It ensured for more stable and reactionary gameplay.

    -Feint reading (overhead) becomes less luck based. Right now when you try to read an overhead feint, upclose, its pretty much a guess whether or not hes going to accelerate his overhead. If hes going to accelerate you won’t have the time to make the distinction between a hit or a feint. If you feint right now you just make it look like you accelerate to completely throw of your opponent.

    -The whole problem with handle hits was made more manageable since you could see the animation more clearly. People would try to handle hit you but it wouldn’t have the same effect since you could see the whole animation and just parry in time.

    It didn’t matter if they would hit with the handle since you could parry it anyways.

    -Same thing applies with reverse overheads, they wouldn’t hit that easily as they do right now.
    They’re pretty much instant hits with some weapons.

    -Delays wouldn’t be something you’d spam and hope for a hit like most people currently do. You have to “setup” your delays in such a way that they would hit.

    The argument is not to dumb down the game but to provide for a combat that doesn’t rely soley on the skill you have using the game mechanics with certain weapons. Its pretty rediculous how weapons like greatsword, halberd and messer soley rely on their hit trading capabilities and drags.



  • @Sophax:

    Its pretty rediculous how weapons like greatsword, halberd and messer soley rely on their hit trading capabilities and drags.

    Not to just cherry pick a line, but I personally don’t think this is the case. The Warhammer has a higher proficiency for trading blows and is about as far away from the mentioned weapons as you can get.

    Besides, most weapons tend to have a strong niche when it comes to tactics, in one area or another. The Norse Sword and Daggers rely on their speed and little else. Repostes with several weapons are too fast to react to. You either parry out of reflex after being blocked yourself, or you eat the attack. If the enemy chooses not to reposte and you block out of reflex thinking he will, you will again, get hit.



  • Thats right (re-)introducing the vertical swing cap would help a lot. I think it being uncapped is actually a bug. Still there are problems with identifying feints and delayed overhead strikes. Reverse overheads are somewhat of an offender here because you can start them (which is basically a delayed swing while looking in the opposite direction) and then drag them down while turning making them quite fast to connect if the missed the first time. In this case its mitigated by turning the back to your opponent but other things like “stopping my weapon mid swing” are pretty stupid (here the bubble plays a role too because you can’t get close enough to force a parry).

    I agree with HEXEN ab out the weapons though. Weapons have different niches and “draggable with heavy hits” is one of them. And I also think its somewhat overrated - when using a fast weapon you can actually hit somebody in his delayed strike and then parry him. Also a lot of people have a - in my opinion - stupid tendency for overusing moves that start with “turn your back to the enemy”. I have beaten players way more skilled than me just because they didn’t expect me to stab their bare back.

    This doesn’t make the other arguments less true - a turn cap would really help with everything that requires you to know what your opponents weapon is doing. But not too much please - dragging is a part of the game that should be kept - in a believable* way.

    *Not speaking of movies/other games where melee is often very very sluggish but real life physics/martial arts.



  • Swing caps are something to be very cautious about: they’re in Deadliest Warrior and it’s not as great as it sounds. It makes the game very very more frustrating to play when people start side stepping and dancing because you can’t drag nearly as efficiently to catch them, so a lot of fights take sooooo much longer because you’re constantly missing each other. I’m not saying what you’re posting isn’t an issue that needs addressing in the long term, but it’s something that’s going to require a lot of thought to properly deal with. Particularly with overhead drags, I think any kind of changes would need heavy testing and consideration.



  • I agree with basically everything the original poster said. Please look at this as a possible fix. I also agree that it should be tested thoroughly before released to assure it helps with the intended issues.



  • Yea what the hell happened there? I haven’t experienced these insta hits for months and now all of a sudden they are back with a vengeance. It’s utter bullshit and yet so many people have no problem using them.
    This really should be a priority because not long ago insta hits were much more manageable, so something must have broken.



  • Ive found that vertical swing caps are disabled when doing a riposte, I’m pretty sure they work as intended outside of that because I’ve tried to see how fast you could possibly do a look down overhead and its always slowed down by the cap. That is until you do a riposte lookdown, where it has no cap.



  • Yeh, the speed cap is still there on regular windups for sure. Not sure what you’re on about sophax.



  • vertical cap is laready there, nonsense post by sophax



  • @NabsterHax:

    Yeh, the speed cap is still there on regular windups for sure. Not sure what you’re on about sophax.

    I’m certain that its not the same as it was a few patches ago. With “a few patches ago” I’m talking months here. It was different. Other people have reported this aswel it just suddenly changed so no one realy noticed or complained about it.

    Same goes for the stab feint window that was increased.



  • Tbh I also think that the overheads feel different than they used to be



  • @afiNity:

    Tbh I also think that the overheads feel different than they used to be

    Sometimes it seems like they are missing a few frames…

    Anyways, I’m pretty sure they haven’t touched the vertical turn speed cap. It is just that some weapons due to their attributes or weapon animations (poleaxe) are unnaturally good at lookdown overheads (GS, Gmace, Polehammer). These definitely do need to be fixed somehow.



  • Guys, it’s always been the animations. It has nothing to do with the speedcap in my opinion.

    Up until recently, I had a very super secret personal notion that the Longsword and SoW had longer parrying times than most weapons. Turns out, the animations are just screwed up, to where you can still parry attacks with these weapons even after the parry animation appears to be over and your weapon begins returning to idle.

    The animations of both characters and weapons just need to be smoother and actually match up to the intended programming code. If a sword has a .5 second parry window, then the sword needs to remain in the parry position for a full .5 seconds, and not have that .5 seconds bleed into the “returning to idle” animation. Some weapons are telegraphed correctly and some aren’t.

    Just like when you mix an overhead with a lookdown, it “hides” the animations of the weapon because looking down while overheading has never been a single animation. It’s two different animations that don’t play off each other very well, at least not to the person that’s getting hit. This is why many people claim that they’re “missing frames”.

    Just to be clear, I have no problem with accelerating or delaying attacks, but I think some animation work may improve the situation. It also might not even be possible with how fast the game moves anyway. You may have to slow EVERYTHING down to achieve what I’m talking about so…



  • @H:

    You may have to slow EVERYTHING down to achieve what I’m talking about so…

    So…this means we need to remove dragging! It was OP and exploitable anyway.



  • @Flippy:

    So…this means we need to remove dragging! It was OP and exploitable anyway.

    Stop that, there are enough people on the forums who would agree with that nonsense



  • @H:

    Guys, it’s always been the animations. It has nothing to do with the speedcap in my opinion.

    Up until recently, I had a very super secret personal notion that the Longsword and SoW had longer parrying times than most weapons. Turns out, the animations are just screwed up, to where you can still parry attacks with these weapons even after the parry animation appears to be over and your weapon begins returning to idle.

    The animations of both characters and weapons just need to be smoother and actually match up to the intended programming code. If a sword has a .5 second parry window, then the sword needs to remain in the parry position for a full .5 seconds, and not have that .5 seconds bleed into the “returning to idle” animation. Some weapons are telegraphed correctly and some aren’t.

    Just like when you mix an overhead with a lookdown, it “hides” the animations of the weapon because looking down while overheading has never been a single animation. It’s two different animations that don’t play off each other very well, at least not to the person that’s getting hit. This is why many people claim that they’re “missing frames”.

    Just to be clear, I have no problem with accelerating or delaying attacks, but I think some animation work may improve the situation. It also might not even be possible with how fast the game moves anyway. You may have to slow EVERYTHING down to achieve what I’m talking about so…

    Agreed, animation improvements for two-handed weapons would be a godsend. Not sure if they’d really have to slow them down though, just sync them up better. After the latest patch, I have noticed the LS parry animation “lasting” a bit longer than it did before… meaning the sword still parried while it was coming down, but also seemed like the window was longer or the animation was slower… needs more testing.


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