Speed up the Game.



  • This is a thread with diverse implications. Read the entire post before you kneejerk reaction the title.

    Torn Banner needs to set beta testing dates and times so that a reasonable amount of people can actually test betas before wild changes muck up the game. Seriously, I didn’t get to play the beta because no one was on it, so I didn’t get to test how this change to combo feinting affected the game.

    Combo feinting right now is absolutely pointless. It takes such a ridiculously long time that it makes comboing with the maul seem faster. Once again, like CFtP before it, combo feinting has become a memory of when this game was better. I understand why this was done. Combo feinting could be difficult to read and gave a significant advantage in terms of killing potential, but remember, it was all at the cost of stamina. Does this sound familiar to anybody?

    This isn’t some idiot’s “you nerfed my favorite feature, wah!” thread. I’m stating precisely what I’ve experienced from playing without combo feinting. That is, without combo feinting, this game has become slower and messier once again. By artificially limiting the player from doing specific actions, this game has become less skillful and much more boring to play, just as what had happened with the removal of CFtP.

    I’d like to see combo feinting returned to its original state. As a matter of fact, I’d like to see Chivalry mostly returned to its original state. This game has been slowed down enough and regardless of how many bug fixes and balance changes TB does, the game will be no fun to play if it’s slowed down even further.

    I’ve had a gut feeling for a while that, despite all of these excellent patches, things are going wrong.

    The first thing is that each patch isn’t being given enough attention because betas are not being properly tested. A few people are getting on, playing for a few seconds, and then leaving. This is not how betas are supposed to work. When you have a beta, you commit to playing it at a certain time so that more people can test it at once. Betas cannot be tested the way we’re doing it right now because enough people aren’t around to even test the changes. That, and that despite TB’s good will, they’re releasing patches FAR too quickly without adequate feedback. This is our fault for pressuring TB to change in the first place. Now that TB has opened up communications again, they’re going too far to try to satisfy us. Never be complacent with how things are, otherwise you’ll fall straight into the trap we’ve just been set into.

    The next major problem with this game is how slow it has become. Gone today is the Chivalry of yesterday where I could enjoy the feeling of freedom this game used to have. If I could set this game back in time to Pre-July, with all of it’s faults, I’d still enjoy playing that Chivalry more than this one. Several things that strike me as slowing down the game are the lower feint windows, secondary attacks slower than primary attacks, the removal of forward facing chase, the massive nerf of stamina usage, the removal of parrying during ripostes, sprint lockout, the ridiculousness of weapon knockback, and now most recently, the complete uselessness of combo feinting after the last patch.

    I’m not even looking at this game through nostalgic eyes. I’ve spent over 600 hours on this game pre-patch and over 300 hours post patch. This game is nothing compared to what it used to be as a result of it being slowed down and control being taken away from the user. All of these “patches” with PiP being introduced, Combo Feint to Parry returning, and the bubble being reduced are absolutely pointless unless offensive capabilities are returned to what they used to be, and even then some. Defensive capabilities aren’t what make games fun. This game lacks the ferocity that it used to. The incredible speed it possessed would put me in a frenzy almost because of how the action used to be so much more split second and intense than it is now.

    If you want to make this game more fun, make the action faster and the room for decisions lower. Return combo feinting to its previous state and test several of the old features that made Chivalry a great game in the first place. Bug fixing and balancing is one thing, but core features are another. Until this game is returned to it the core features that made it fun in the first place, I will NOT EVER be able to look at it as the same game it was before.



  • If they make anything too fast the combat becomes chancy and unpredictable, mostly due to poor netcode.



  • Wat?

    Combo feinting works just as well as it did for me.



  • Excuse me for my nubcake question, but what exactly was done to combo feint? I saw the patch notes of course, but I’m not sure what they imply.



  • If they make the combat faster it becomes a spam-fest of slash, much like deadliest warrior



  • @Flippy:

    Excuse me for my nubcake question, but what exactly was done to combo feint? I saw the patch notes of course, but I’m not sure what they imply.

    It takes 0.5s to atack after you feint a combo (up from 0.2 - 0.4 depending on weapon)



  • It wasn’t slowed down. Increasing the speed a very small amount may increase the fun - but lookdown overheads couple easily become impossible to react to.



  • @Philoninternet:

    If they make anything too fast the combat becomes chancy and unpredictable, mostly due to poor netcode.

    I guess thats just what he misses. The game was more based on luck and psychology much like Poker.

    As for combo feinting: He is referring to the weapon taking actual time to travel in space instead of teleporting where you want it. A pretty good change along with some of the other mentioned thins which have one in common: They reduce offensive capabilities because they make attacks more natural and immersive. Thats a good thing but the OP has problems with the fact that people now have a better chance of defending them against attacks because they don’t get crushed by teleporting weapons or unreadable feint attacks.

    As for beta testing: There are not enough testers for a long time test so it makes more sense to get an initial impression through them and if it seems okay bring the changes to live to get more data - adjust where necessary. Thats totally fine if the changes are limited like in the last patches. Delaying them would not make the changes any better - it just piles up more things that need to be adjusted later.

    But I agree with the core message: Please do more for the attacker! However, attacking should not rely on teleporting weapons, gambling and “wtf did he just do” to be successful. The bubble reduction is a step in the right direction as it gives players more freedom of movement. Don’t bring back the old “wtf” moves - give attackers more choices and better features. For example decrease the parry hitbox to make it harder to defend against well aimed strikes, give some more stamina to make it possible to use the offensive tools more often before runing out, add some evil (not magic!) tricks to overwhelm your enemies.



  • who was that said they will never look back and say dam warsaw was right?
    sounds like im am completely right!

    ive been asking for faster gameplay for 14 months now.

    I personaly liked parry in recovery way more then the useless cftp, I cant believe after the all the whining about feints that you guys even wanted this back.

    fake swings don’t make you good or make fun gaming it just fools your opponent into blocking which he is locked into leaving him open to your exploitable attack.

    now it just feels like, move toward opponent then step back let him miss and attack, that’s very boring to me and not even a challenge at all but yet exploiting mechanics built into the game because your opponent has no options at that point.
    and the way the game has always kinda been is like first to hit usualy wins the fight which isn’t very fun either.

    like some 1 once said the game needs to be more on reaction and not prediction.
    reaction based gaming is exciting and epic, and is way more fun then just using mechanics that are wonky and timing based which lead to exploiting because you are locked into an animation that’s way slower then your reaction time.



  • @Evil:

    But I agree with the core message: Please do more for the attacker! However, attacking should not rely on teleporting weapons, gambling and “wtf did he just do” to be successful. The bubble reduction is a step in the right direction as it gives players more freedom of movement. Don’t bring back the old “wtf” moves - give attackers more choices and better features. For example decrease the parry hitbox to make it harder to defend against well aimed strikes, give some more stamina to make it possible to use the offensive tools more often before runing out, add some evil (not magic!) tricks to overwhelm your enemies.

    Fine. I suppose nearly all offensive tactics looked like “omg wtf how’d he do that,” but only to the uninitiated. After a certain point, I understood literally everything that could happen to me. Every “surprise” was no longer surprising since I knew exactly what was going to happen. Other people may not agree that it was better this way and I’m fine with that.

    In the end, I don’t care what the means to this end is. The game isn’t fun for me anymore because all fights feel like constant stalemates. There’s few times I can ever gain the initiative and keep it and I’ve already said goodbye to those 8 v 1 fights that I used to win. I don’t care about that anymore. All I care about is that, somehow, this game becomes more intense. Decrease the parry hitbox, slightly increase the speed of all classes, even all attacks across the board… I don’t even care how now.

    I just want this game to be intense for the right reasons. My way of doing it would be to make it as strange, odd, and buggy as it used to be. That’s a quick way of doing it. However, since most people don’t agree with me on that, I wouldn’t mind seeing new ways of making the game faster, intense, and more skill based.



  • its a shame that a few patches can take something we love so much and change it to the point where you have your server off and aren’t turning it back on till the mods are remodded to fix the unwanted changes and the game/server plays better, cause thats where im at right now, and its staying off till it feels right on the test server.

    too long of flinch times and too many ridiculous punishments make for very stale, slowed down restricted movement combat scenarios which require way less skill and lack the intensity this game so badly needs again.

    we should be able to do what we want to do when we want to do it in the game, true skill comes from being able to react to it in time and counter that move, not exploiting wonky mechanics that lock you into certain motions guaranteeing your enemy a hit, that’s just plain exploiting a faulty and unfair combat system.



  • i think most people are happy with the changes man, i know i am.



  • Yeah, I like the new change. You can now interrupt combo feints if you read the feint early enough.



  • Ya I actually really have to think about combo feinting now and when i decide to combo feint, I need to make sure I execute it properly. And now everything looks so much smoother.


  • Mod

    I feel like removing panic parry and adding CFTP has made no difference. Because the players who needed it just did keybinds. Probably the ones that join after every patch and go 'FUCKKK, GOTTA REBIND MY KEYS AGAIN!"



  • @Tyoson:

    I feel like removing panic parry and adding CFTP has made no difference. Because the players who needed it just did keybinds. Probably the ones that join after every patch and go 'FUCKKK, GOTTA REBIND MY KEYS AGAIN!"

    There’s a massive difference between CFTP and panic parry. This has been established dozens of times. I’m not going to bother arguing it with you.



  • @Tyoson:

    I feel like removing panic parry and adding CFTP has made no difference. Because the players who needed it just did keybinds. Probably the ones that join after every patch and go 'FUCKKK, GOTTA REBIND MY KEYS AGAIN!"

    also, the keybinds remain the exact same way for panic parry vs. cftp lol. There is no CFTP button.

    if you had to re-do keybinds, you would have had to regardless of this change.



  • I don’t think combo feinting is broken, you just have to pretend that you’re speeding up the second attack instead of just looking your opponent dead in the eye and pressing Q. Hopefully this also silences the people whining that feinting is a noskill mechanic, as executing it properly is much more challenging now.

    I’d like another look at the flinch times, though - I’ve been stabbed with a morning star between a slash and lookdown OH combo (longsword), and I didn’t even get a hit trade. The guy was flinched from my first attack. As I suggested in another thread, it would be swell if flinch window was slightly larger when wielding 1H weapons. This seems somewhat artificial, but at least it’d be a quick fix.

    As for the more offensive capabilities, removing sprint lockout and reintroducing frontal chase at small ranges (with a different running animation or sound, preferably) would do the trick IMHO. The one thing that often gets me killed in group fights is sprint lockout: parry once, and you’ll be stuck in place and can’t target switch unless another enemy is right next to you. Then I’ll proceed to take a pounding from 4 different weapons at once. Mobility is key.



  • Love how people just ignore warsaw now as he rants and raves in the corner haha.

    Also no, dont speed the game up - I like where chiv is at currently, and I like where its going.



  • At least now you can punish combo feints if you read it properly instead of getting traded (or flinched)


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