Zwei combo time with the new .8 2-hander flinch



  • Bit of a problem introduced with the new .8 second flinch for two handers. Zwei combo times are all .8s or more. So I can hit a guy, combo into another attack, and he can sometimes windup and hit me with fast weapons before I can get off my next attack. It’s kind of a problem.

    Example: Today I came up behind an enemy claymore van, hit him once with zwei, comboed overhead, and before I could get off my second attack he turned around and thrust me with his claymore. I was at half health already, so I died. I lost because he decided to freak out and mash thrust. This shouldn’t be possible, but it’s happening with all the fast weapons.

    I think zwei and maul should have increased flinch times, maybe .9 seconds.



  • Either that or speed them up a bit :>



  • Nope. If you’re using slower weapon (zweihander) against faster one (claymore) you either need to accelerate or use CFTP/combo parry.



  • I always thought 0.8 was a little low.



  • This is a good thing. Having to wait for someone’s bigass weapon to finish its combo isn’t fun at all.

    In regards to the zwei, if you hit someone, combo, feint to parry their swing out of flinch, then immediately do a lookdown overhead, you’ll usually catch them off guard. Few people expect the huge ass zwei to come at them so quickly, especially when they thought they had a free hit.



  • This problem also happens to the maul, and other slow weapons.
    A nice fix would be to make flinch time a function of the combo time of the weapon that inflicted the flinch. As of right now, anyone who gets desperate and spams atacks just get a free hit on you, unless you cftp and lose the iniciative and a lot of stamina.
    This is even worse in 1 Vs many, as you are forced into the defensive.



  • @DerFürst:

    This is a good thing. Having to wait for someone’s bigass weapon to finish its combo isn’t fun at all.

    In regards to the zwei, if you hit someone, combo, feint to parry their swing out of flinch, then immediately do a lookdown overhead, you’ll usually catch them off guard. Few people expect the huge ass zwei to come at them so quickly, especially when they thought they had a free hit.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^This



  • I use the maul a lot and don’t really have any issues with this happening, just gotta remember to cftp/ftp when people try to flinch you. Generally if you keep the pressure on them enough they won’t even risk trades, especially if they’re low health. The guy must have saw you were almost dead and went full aggressive to get a quick hit.



  • This came up in the discussion about reducing 2H flinch times. The consensus was that heavy weapons shouldn’t rely on flinching and compensate by using other tricks (like keeping distance or just killing the target outright).

    It was a nerf though - lets see if Zweihänder or Maul need some compensation. I doubt it.



  • You’re using big-ass sword with amazing reach, dragability and damage. The stats that were supposed to be disadvantage are instead your advantages, zwei is among the easiest weapons to drag.

    I think it is in place that killing pubbers with it takes again at least some effort. Other than that, timing is key, good drag comboed into accelerated attack should hit them before they hit you. And finally indeed CFtP. It just takes extra effort and awareness.



  • I just don’t like the fact that now some other 2 handed weapons can actually hit you in the middle of your combo. It’s fine for one handers doing it. But even the Brandi stab (the fast overhead animation one) can hit trade you in a combo. And it hits you first usually so if you don’t have the health. Though at least with that attack you can combo feint to parry. With some of the weapons you can’t do it if they attack late. Though that’s with one handers usually and a man at arms probably won’t do well with a zwei hit trade. Nonetheless the lower flinch time increases hit trades.



  • yeah flinch times should in no way be the same across the board, they should be directly related to the combo time of the weapon… at least in my opinion. so based on their combo time, that’s how they should flinch.

    Shouldn’t have the same value for all weapons, the only reason weapons like the maul and grand mace and such can get away with it is because you usually have to accelerate or handle hit your opponent to get the combo off, or combo into something faster like a poke. Then again, if you drag it and they hit you in the drag, that’s kind of your own fault… risk was taken.



  • Like I said back before they changed them the first time. They should base flinch times on either windup speed or combo speed (they tend to parallel but not always). The differences shouldn’t be huge but carefully picked for each weapon. None of this all 2 handers get this speed nonsense.



  • @lemonater47:

    I just don’t like the fact that now some other 2 handed weapons can actually hit you in the middle of your combo. It’s fine for one handers doing it. But even the Brandi stab (the fast overhead animation one) can hit trade you in a combo.

    And just to make things worse you get flinched in release 25% of the time too.



  • I would like to flinch you when you make a long ass drag and not wait for it to finish, finally drags have some kind of risk to it and people already cry



  • @CRUSHED:

    I would like to flinch you when you make a long ass drag and not wait for it to finish, finally drags have some kind of risk to it and people already cry

    someone bitter at the prospect his precious 0.8 flinch time could be changed

    you could already hit people if they were dragging with an accelerated attack or a non accelerated fast weapon in general on the old flinch timings

    the logical solution to this would to give the weapons individual flinch times based around their combo times - not this botched one value for all 2handers weapon system where people who play anything slow now can’t combo normally



  • flinching needs to stay a global setting, anything else would be way to many settings and would require months of testing to properly be done.

    hit trades or damage trading happens in every game don’t know why people whine about it in this one, plus it keeps you on your toes.
    the flinch times should actually be lower then they already are anyway, that’s one on the biggest problems in the games and has been for 14 months now is was the whole reason for majority of the nerfs in chiv happened in the first place, if some one can land 2 single attacks back to back that you cant block then that’s a no brainer that the flinch is too long, one day you guys will wake up and realize that it is a major problem.

    that’s why the maa nerfed, you just don’t realize it, he was never too beast like, it was just that the flinch time is longer then the 2 small classes weapons attack times thus making ppl whine op when you got pwned by them and couldn’t do anything about it.

    lower the flinch times and game gets epic really fast, simple solution to a huge problem.
    and it becomes more on reaction versus prediction and being stuck in an animation lockout, allowing you to exploit faulty combat mechanics thinking your actually good.

    so simple yet so hard for you guys to grasp.

    flinch is attached to everything, thus it ruins the entire combat system and is the root of all the evil.



  • @WARSAW:

    flinching needs to stay a global setting, anything else would be way to many settings and would require months of testing to properly be done.

    hit trades or damage trading happens in every game don’t know why people whine about it in this one, plus it keeps you on your toes.
    the flinch times should actually be lower then they already are anyway, that’s one on the biggest problems in the games and has been for 14 months now is was the whole reason for majority of the nerfs in chiv happened in the first place, if some one can land 2 single attacks back to back that you cant block then that’s a no brainer that the flinch is too long, one day you guys will wake up and realize that it is a major problem.

    that’s why you guys got the maa nerfed, you just don’t realize it, he was never to beast like, it was just that the flinch time is longer then the 2 small classes weapons attack times thus making you whine op when you got pwned by them

    lower the flinch times and game gets epic really fast, simple solution to a huge problem.
    and it becomes more on reaction versus prediction and being stuck in an animation lockout.

    so simple yet so hard for you guys to grasp.

    a game full of hittrading is a ridiculous notion when there are weapons in the game that can kill someone in only 1 hit but more commonly 2 or 3 - go play AOC if you are really in love with this idea

    how would it require months of testing if flinch times reflected combo times? that way each flinch is long enough for a normal combo (no delaying) to succeed in hitting - there is nothing more to it than that

    it might even add an interesting balance change that fast weapons flinch you for less time (but they can still combo you successfully)



  • @KILLBANDS:

    someone bitter at the prospect his precious 0.8 flinch time could be changed

    you could already hit people if they were dragging with an accelerated attack or a non accelerated fast weapon in general on the old flinch timings

    the logical solution to this would to give the weapons individual flinch times based around their combo times - not this botched one value for all 2handers weapon system where people who play anything slow now can’t combo normally

    no you couldnt, you couldnt even get a trade on combo feints. it was horrible.



  • You couldn’t on fast weapons, but if someone is doing a delay with zweihander on the combo you can instant hit them and punish it.

    Aren’t you supposed to be for freedom of player control Crushed? Or does that only matter when it effects you? Slow weapons can’t combo normally at the moment which is clearly wrong that a weapon can’t perform a normal function of the melee combat in this game.


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