Zwei combo time with the new .8 2-hander flinch



  • You’re using big-ass sword with amazing reach, dragability and damage. The stats that were supposed to be disadvantage are instead your advantages, zwei is among the easiest weapons to drag.

    I think it is in place that killing pubbers with it takes again at least some effort. Other than that, timing is key, good drag comboed into accelerated attack should hit them before they hit you. And finally indeed CFtP. It just takes extra effort and awareness.



  • I just don’t like the fact that now some other 2 handed weapons can actually hit you in the middle of your combo. It’s fine for one handers doing it. But even the Brandi stab (the fast overhead animation one) can hit trade you in a combo. And it hits you first usually so if you don’t have the health. Though at least with that attack you can combo feint to parry. With some of the weapons you can’t do it if they attack late. Though that’s with one handers usually and a man at arms probably won’t do well with a zwei hit trade. Nonetheless the lower flinch time increases hit trades.



  • yeah flinch times should in no way be the same across the board, they should be directly related to the combo time of the weapon… at least in my opinion. so based on their combo time, that’s how they should flinch.

    Shouldn’t have the same value for all weapons, the only reason weapons like the maul and grand mace and such can get away with it is because you usually have to accelerate or handle hit your opponent to get the combo off, or combo into something faster like a poke. Then again, if you drag it and they hit you in the drag, that’s kind of your own fault… risk was taken.



  • Like I said back before they changed them the first time. They should base flinch times on either windup speed or combo speed (they tend to parallel but not always). The differences shouldn’t be huge but carefully picked for each weapon. None of this all 2 handers get this speed nonsense.



  • @lemonater47:

    I just don’t like the fact that now some other 2 handed weapons can actually hit you in the middle of your combo. It’s fine for one handers doing it. But even the Brandi stab (the fast overhead animation one) can hit trade you in a combo.

    And just to make things worse you get flinched in release 25% of the time too.



  • I would like to flinch you when you make a long ass drag and not wait for it to finish, finally drags have some kind of risk to it and people already cry



  • @CRUSHED:

    I would like to flinch you when you make a long ass drag and not wait for it to finish, finally drags have some kind of risk to it and people already cry

    someone bitter at the prospect his precious 0.8 flinch time could be changed

    you could already hit people if they were dragging with an accelerated attack or a non accelerated fast weapon in general on the old flinch timings

    the logical solution to this would to give the weapons individual flinch times based around their combo times - not this botched one value for all 2handers weapon system where people who play anything slow now can’t combo normally



  • flinching needs to stay a global setting, anything else would be way to many settings and would require months of testing to properly be done.

    hit trades or damage trading happens in every game don’t know why people whine about it in this one, plus it keeps you on your toes.
    the flinch times should actually be lower then they already are anyway, that’s one on the biggest problems in the games and has been for 14 months now is was the whole reason for majority of the nerfs in chiv happened in the first place, if some one can land 2 single attacks back to back that you cant block then that’s a no brainer that the flinch is too long, one day you guys will wake up and realize that it is a major problem.

    that’s why the maa nerfed, you just don’t realize it, he was never too beast like, it was just that the flinch time is longer then the 2 small classes weapons attack times thus making ppl whine op when you got pwned by them and couldn’t do anything about it.

    lower the flinch times and game gets epic really fast, simple solution to a huge problem.
    and it becomes more on reaction versus prediction and being stuck in an animation lockout, allowing you to exploit faulty combat mechanics thinking your actually good.

    so simple yet so hard for you guys to grasp.

    flinch is attached to everything, thus it ruins the entire combat system and is the root of all the evil.



  • @WARSAW:

    flinching needs to stay a global setting, anything else would be way to many settings and would require months of testing to properly be done.

    hit trades or damage trading happens in every game don’t know why people whine about it in this one, plus it keeps you on your toes.
    the flinch times should actually be lower then they already are anyway, that’s one on the biggest problems in the games and has been for 14 months now is was the whole reason for majority of the nerfs in chiv happened in the first place, if some one can land 2 single attacks back to back that you cant block then that’s a no brainer that the flinch is too long, one day you guys will wake up and realize that it is a major problem.

    that’s why you guys got the maa nerfed, you just don’t realize it, he was never to beast like, it was just that the flinch time is longer then the 2 small classes weapons attack times thus making you whine op when you got pwned by them

    lower the flinch times and game gets epic really fast, simple solution to a huge problem.
    and it becomes more on reaction versus prediction and being stuck in an animation lockout.

    so simple yet so hard for you guys to grasp.

    a game full of hittrading is a ridiculous notion when there are weapons in the game that can kill someone in only 1 hit but more commonly 2 or 3 - go play AOC if you are really in love with this idea

    how would it require months of testing if flinch times reflected combo times? that way each flinch is long enough for a normal combo (no delaying) to succeed in hitting - there is nothing more to it than that

    it might even add an interesting balance change that fast weapons flinch you for less time (but they can still combo you successfully)



  • @KILLBANDS:

    someone bitter at the prospect his precious 0.8 flinch time could be changed

    you could already hit people if they were dragging with an accelerated attack or a non accelerated fast weapon in general on the old flinch timings

    the logical solution to this would to give the weapons individual flinch times based around their combo times - not this botched one value for all 2handers weapon system where people who play anything slow now can’t combo normally

    no you couldnt, you couldnt even get a trade on combo feints. it was horrible.



  • You couldn’t on fast weapons, but if someone is doing a delay with zweihander on the combo you can instant hit them and punish it.

    Aren’t you supposed to be for freedom of player control Crushed? Or does that only matter when it effects you? Slow weapons can’t combo normally at the moment which is clearly wrong that a weapon can’t perform a normal function of the melee combat in this game.



  • that’s funny you say that cause hit trading happens all the time now anyway silly.

    and im fine with that, id rather have options then be flinched and beat by a noob you fool.

    flinch is a major exploit and ruins the game, if any of you had half a brain you would realize that.

    cause in real combat when you hit some one they are just gonna clam up right and let you hit them again and again or combo on them 3 times right?



  • @50ShadesofClay:

    yeah flinch times should in no way be the same across the board, they should be directly related to the combo time of the weapon… at least in my opinion. so based on their combo time, that’s how they should flinch.

    Sorry, but I absolutely hate this idea. Weapons like maul and zwei have ridiculous damage, great draggability and zwei has amazing range. I don’t see why EVERY weapon should be able to follow up with a combo without risk.

    But if anything, buff their combo times and leave the flinch alone. Each weapon getting different flinch times might as well make any time you get flinched have a random lockout on when you can attack, especially in team fights where half the time you won’t necessarily know what flinched you and how the flinch behaviour stacks on multiple hits from different weapons.

    Additionally, it gives these weapons some interesting quirks, even if they are indirect nerfs. Buff them in some other area if they are underpowered (but I don’t think they are), but please leave the flinch consistent.



  • @warsaw

    they don’t “clam up” it just puts you into a position where you can only parry. that’s how the game follows basic rules of one person is being aggressive and one person is being defensive until this has changed player

    in a game with low player speed, chase mechanics and various other things that don’t make it as range and footwork orientated as the age of chivalry was which allowed you to avoid hits even though there was no flinch - you need flinch mechanic

    without it game would need to be reworked completely and that’s just not going to happen



  • @NabsterHax:

    Sorry, but I absolutely hate this idea. Weapons like maul and zwei have ridiculous damage, great draggability and zwei has amazing range. I don’t see why EVERY weapon should be able to follow up with a combo without risk.

    But if anything, buff their combo times and leave the flinch alone. Each weapon getting different flinch times might as well make any time you get flinched have a random lockout on when you can attack, especially in team fights where half the time you won’t necessarily know what flinched you and how the flinch behaviour stacks on multiple hits from different weapons.

    Additionally, it gives these weapons some interesting quirks, even if they are indirect nerfs. Buff them in some other area if they are underpowered (but I don’t think they are), but please leave the flinch consistent.

    a valid point about multiple people hitting you and then you get a stupidly long flinch (not to say youre not prob already dead) but maybe the combo time can be tweaked to be a bit down and the flinch time tweaked to be a bit up to keep both parties happy



  • @KILLBANDS:

    You couldn’t on fast weapons, but if someone is doing a delay with zweihander on the combo you can instant hit them and punish it.

    Aren’t you supposed to be for freedom of player control Crushed? Or does that only matter when it effects you? Slow weapons can’t combo normally at the moment which is clearly wrong that a weapon can’t perform a normal function of the melee combat in this game.

    Zwei still has freedom to do whatever the hell it wants while you’re flinched. This includes running out of the range of your weapon, feinting to parry, feinting and kicking, etc. etc.

    Giving slower weapons a longer flinch time just means their main disadvantage isn’t a disadvantage at all, and would wreak havoc in anything other than 1v1, where getting flinched for ages by an already extremely damaging weapon means you can’t do shit for the next second and a half.

    The way it works now adds some diversity to weapons. Certain weapons are fast enough to combo lookdowns over and over, some have combos that are slightly more risky. Weapon mastery is a key aspect of depth in chiv, and if I can switch between every weapon and do about the same because they all work the same way, it’s wasted depth.



  • @CRUSHED:

    no you couldnt, you couldnt even get a trade on combo feints. it was horrible.

    Really? Guess I just imagined this then: http://youtu.be/uYu65-kJoXU?t=52s



  • I would say their main disadvantage is a specially long recovery time and a long windup. I don’t think it should go as far as not being allowed to combo.



  • well im an offensive and defensive player at the same time, always have been.
    I think about it differently then you do.
    but I also don’t want my player controlled by shit!
    that’s why I play fps games in the first place and not mmo’s.

    and I don’t want no flinch, there should be a “small” flinch but not the monstrosity it is now, if there wasn’t any flinch I could only imagine the 12 ft swords spam would be more horrendous then it is now, majority of you would be buying a new mouse every week lol



  • @WARSAW:

    but I also don’t want my player controlled by shit!

    You should stop playing then.


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