Dodge and Flinch



  • Two problems:

    •MAA CAN DODGE WHILE FLINCHED.
    •DODGE WIPES FLINCH STATE, ALLOWING MAA TO ATTACK AGAIN.

    I won’t elaborate much on why these two mechanics are ridiculous and broken; I’ll leave that to people who are better at sorting through the logic of it.

    The ability to dodge while flinched allows the MAA to instantly and consistently steal back the initiative with the press of a single button.

    Now add in the fact that the MAA can attack after the dodge, even if they had been flinched. How long does a dodge take? I don’t know, but I do know that if you hit a MAA with Zwei, he can dodge, windup, and hit you before you can land the next combo hit or cftp.

    There shouldn’t be a magic button that negates flinch state. Flinch is supposed to be a punishment for getting hit. MAA is immune to that punishment. MAA should be punished for being hit like the rest of the classes. Dodge shouldn’t be a get out of jail free card.

    TB nerfed dodge with a minor stam cost increase, but it hasn’t made a noticeable difference. If they really want to balance MAA, make it so they can’t dodge while flinched. Then they’re stuck there like the rest of the classes, on the defensive, trying to angle a parry. As it should be.



  • How long have they been able to do this? Is it a recent bug? Because I haven’t seen any MaAs dodging out of flinch, but if they can then yeah absolutely this needs to go fast.



  • @TobiwanK3nobi:

    Two problems:
    •DODGE WIPES FLINCH STATE, ALLOWING MAA TO ATTACK AGAIN.

    There is a delay before you can attack after a dodge which I think is longer than the flinch itself.



  • Hmm well, the flinch negation definitely needs to go. Not sure about not letting MaA dodge during flinch at all though.

    Don’t want to hijack, but MaA shouldn’t be able to dodge while parrying either. Why can they dodge while parrying but not in parry recovery?



  • @NabsterHax:

    Hmm well, the flinch negation definitely needs to go. Not sure about not letting MaA dodge during flinch at all though.

    Don’t want to hijack, but MaA shouldn’t be able to dodge while parrying either. Why can they dodge while parrying but not in parry recovery?

    I thought parry stops the dodge. I know they can dodge with shield raised. That needs to go too.



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    There is a delay before you can attack after a dodge which I think is longer than the flinch itself.

    Delay? I thought it was just you can’t start your windup until the dodge is complete.



  • @SOC:

    How long have they been able to do this? Is it a recent bug? Because I haven’t seen any MaAs dodging out of flinch, but if they can then yeah absolutely this needs to go fast.

    I don’t know if it has always been around or not. It’s been so long since the beginning and I’ve been away for months.



  • There is no delay, nothing I could notice a t least. MAA can attack immediately after the dodge is done.

    Dodging while flinched is one thing but I imo MAAs shouldn’t be able to parry while dodging in the first place.



  • @Silu:

    There is no delay, nothing I could notice a t least. MAA can attack immediately after the dodge is done.

    Dodging while flinched is one thing but I imo MAAs shouldn’t be able to parry while dodging in the first place.

    Yeah, and another thing I find broken about MaA is that dodge is nearly 100% superior to parrying… and yet you get more dodges than parries. I think that is the major issue with the MaA’s OPness



  • This dodge out of flinch is a problem, and has been pointed out before. IMO it’s pretty abusable when you can get hit, then immediately dodge and attack faster than if you wait out the flinch and then attack.
    It’s even fast enough to flinch 1h combos.

    from the CU1 patch 2 notes:
    Dodge disabled during windup and release.
    Attacking disabled for the first half of dodge (attacks will queue instead.)

    So I would interpret that as windup starting halfway through dodge.

    And you cannot dodge and then parry, but you can parry and then dodge while the parry window is still active. Actually that is kind of fun to use to get a surprise riposte into someone but it uses a shit-ton of stamina.



  • @TobiwanK3nobi:

    Delay? I thought it was just you can’t start your windup until the dodge is complete.

    Oh yeah, I meant that by the time dodge animation is over the flinch animation “would be” over as well. You want flinch to carry over AFTER the dodge?



  • just remove dodge and give maa 2handers

    this class is so strong right now it doesnt need dodge at all

    i went 56 kills in a scrim earlier today with broadsword maa and without dodge and i dont even play this class

    this class is fucking bullshit ridicoulus easymode right now



  • As soon as you get hit, mash dodge and alt slash.

    buuuuggy as fuck



  • @Nohbdy111:

    Yeah, and another thing I find broken about MaA is that dodge is nearly 100% superior to parrying… and yet you get more dodges than parries. I think that is the major issue with the MaA’s OPness

    To be honest I find it easier to fight a dodging MAA than parrying and riposting one. The key to the former one is to not to riposte immediately after your successful parry. Pressure him instead. Run at him and start your attack with a lil bit of delay. This way the guy needs to either dodge twice or dodge + parry. It is also possible to force a hit trade this way but it rarely ever happens as most “dodgy” maas wait for your immediate riposte into the air, so they can score a free hit. If there is no riposte, they will just keep backpedaling waiting for your move, as you rush them. Also, be unpredictable and don’t stop sprinting, especially when you have the initiative.
    (Well, it’s hard for me to describe it, as I do a lot of things instinctively and automatically, some of which I’m not even fully aware)

    The other type of maa - riposting and dodging as a last resort, well, he’s a different story. Broad/norse swords stab riposte and lookdown OH riposte are so fast they are really tough to catch in a facehug distance (when you tend to wait for the animation that is, and don’t anticipate) aaaand it’s super easy to go around the parry with them - it will be even easier with the reduced bubble.



  • @CRUSHED:

    just remove dodge and give maa 2handers

    this class is so strong right now it doesnt need dodge at all

    i went 56 kills in a scrim earlier today with broadsword maa and without dodge and i dont even play this class

    this class is fucking bullshit ridicoulus easymode right now

    True story.



  • cough

    http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/18603-MAA-Dodge-cancels-recovery-and-flinch-times

    please bump this thread. Been trying to get it fixed for awhile.

    Also tobi, not sure you were here for this. But TBS repeatedly stated, not being able to dodge during flinch was a bug and they fixed it. However, absolutely sure they did not intend for dodge being able to cancel flinch times and recovery times, and have been trying to get it fixed for quite awhile. I know a handful of MAAs who rely on this exploit and it is quite annoying to deal with.



  • nerf nerf nerf na nerf nerf nerf, nerfalodian



  • Can anyone post a video of this bug in action? I’m playing MAA for some time but I’ve never been able to dodge after getting hit and then interrupt someone’s combo with my attack unless he missed/delayed/used some slow weapons.



  • @WARSAW:

    nerf nerf nerf na nerf nerf nerf, nerfalodian

    This isn’t asking for a nerf. This is a bug. Bugs need to be fixed.

    Get off these forums and go play with your mod.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    I know a handful of MAAs who rely on this exploit and it is quite annoying to deal with.

    Saw this firsthand repeatedly on Lg duels. I was using a zweiguard against a broadsword maa. I managed to land a nice overhead on him, but his his shoulder. He immediately dodged and tried to stab. I had to combo feint into a kick almost instantaneously to kill him to stop the swing. He just straight up quit after I did that to him, not giving me enough time to ask what he was doing.

    At first I was slightly confused because I thought this had been fixed a long time ago along with dodging during stamina and kick stuns. However, Flotch was kind enough to explain and demonstrate what was happening. Yea, this thing has got to go.


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