Why is this thing so hard to use?



  • There’s so many buttons everywhere and even though I’ve seen a few tutorials it still doesn’t make sense. Oh and, I added a player spawn thing and set it to AOCFFA and changed the gamemode to AOCFFA in World Properties and then I couldn’t spawn anymore? That makes no sense.

    Hopefully there’ll be easier map makers in the future. Like some kind of drag-and-drop type map makers with just three buttons. I don’t want to spend a year learning about coding and shit just to make a map for Chivalry, as much as I want to make a map for Chivalry.

    Also, in the wiki it said ‘don’t use terrain, use landscape’. Okay, understood. So I clicked on landscape, hoping I could maybe add some grass or something and it just said add heightmap. What the fuck is a heightmap. I shouldn’t have to know what these words mean to create a map.



  • The UDK in itself is pretty basic as long as the resources come included(they are in this case). It’s the kismet stuff you’ll want to stay away from for now.

    For Chivalry, you’ll barely have to code anything. Just open the content manager and drag&drop away. Especially for FFA; barely any coding required whatsoever.

    How could you not know what a heightmap is? If this is your ABSOLUTE first time trying out a world/map editor then I suppose it’s possible you haven’t heard of heightmaps before but they really are as basic as they can get. They’re just topdown views of a landscape. The darker the pixel, the higher the terrain. Creating a heightmap(in World Machine or hell, even Photoshop) and importing it is also much easier than manually painting the landscape yourself too if you never used the UDK before.

    For me really, the difficult part is painting the terrain. It feels a bit overkill how you have to add many tags and values for drawing a grass texture on a mountain with a small cobblestone textured path leading over it. But that’s how materials work in map-editing.

    To summarize: first time trying UDK oughta be a bitch. It definitely was for me. It’s also relatively unstable.
    Nonetheless it shouldn’t take too much time to learn how to make a basic map so good luck.

    Edit: As much as I’d hate to say it; just because you know Chivalry doesn’t mean you can make a map for it. It sounds rude but… this isn’t Minecraft. UDK is a completely different thing than Chivalry. True, it’s a relatively simple to learn tool but if you never made custom maps for a game before then you’re bound to fail a few times.


  • Developer

    The documentation on our Wiki is really just supplementary documentation. It’s intended mostly to explain how making maps and mods for Chivalry is different from doing so for other UE3 titles or for UDK. You really need to read some general UE3 editor documentation, we can’t possibly hope to cover even half of what’s involved. That’s what the Additional Resources page is about though.



  • once u learn the buttons its like a more complex lego on computer



  • Thanks for the replies, although it still feels like quite a bit of work for someone like me… so I think I’ll pass. I expected it to be a little easier. Not “Minecraft easy”, but I just didn’t expect there to be so many numbers and things to consider lol. Map-making is definitely not my thing, I just got curious when I heard about the competition, but even if I learned how to make maps, with my luck the competition would be over by then.



  • @Jon:

    Thanks for the replies, although it still feels like quite a bit of work for someone like me… so I think I’ll pass. I expected it to be a little easier. Not “Minecraft easy”, but I just didn’t expect there to be so many numbers and things to consider lol. Map-making is definitely not my thing, I just got curious when I heard about the competition, but even if I learned how to make maps, with my luck the competition would be over by then.

    You could get into 3D modeling. I use a software called Blender. It’s a really under-rated open-source software that is the equivalent of the Big Boys like 3DS Max and Maya, except it’s completely free. There are plenty of tutorials on Youtube as well.

    These are some of the things I’ve made, with the explodey planet being the latest. http://imgur.com/a/bK6ZA#0



  • I hate Blender with a passion that borders on madness.

    If anything, it is over-rated.



  • @dudeface:

    I hate Blender with a passion that borders on madness.

    If anything, it is over-rated.

    How exactly is it over-rated? 3DS Max and Maya are both still more popular than Blender, and they’re the programs that are most commonly used in the movie and game industry. I can’t ever recall seeing a developer saying they used Blender.



  • It’s overrated by open-source zealots and resentful linux nerds.



  • @dudeface:

    It’s overrated by open-source zealots and resentful linux nerds.

    You…yeah you’re right.



  • I have looked around, hard to find a decent tutorial for the version we are on. I find some, try to reproduce the actions but doesnt work.

    It would be nice to see a short video just showing how for example the peasant killers was created. Don’t even need a voice over, just record and go through the steps from New Map to Play.

    My main concern is it took Crushed 150 hours to create his siege map, I assume he already was a guru… I guess once you have the basics down a lot of time is spent searching the content manager for content to add and placing the meshes.



  • Right! I hate using textures through kismit!! grrrrr



  • I used this set of tutorials to get going

    http://thenewboston.org/list.php?cat=12

    (maybe ignore the one about how to install of course as you already have all this……)

    I think I have been working on my map for maybe 6 months now, and 4 months of that was probably full time ish, but i did make alot of new models / meshes in a different tool, and new textures with photoshop etc.

    Although i had built a map level years ago it was in an entirely different technology and so many things had changed and had to be learned again, but i guess it was usefull to have some of the basics.

    Where does the time go???
    Mesh placing - yeah a bit
    lighting quite a lot
    kismet - loads
    rebuilding the mistakes made at the beginning - loads
    redoing materials because you realise you dont like how they look - quite a bit
    getting the light maps of your models right - loads
    fiddling with the landscape and foliage - quite a bit of hassle.
    incorporating voice actor sounds - significant time.
    changes to the map to improve performance, how to adjust light maps densities, reduce uneeded meshes, reduction of texture sizes, how and where to apply texture culling etc. etc. - this maybe 30% of my time i rekon !!!

    but dont forget the early stages

    planning the map and game play and getting the distances right.
    blocking out the main elements and achieving the basic design
    working out the main set of assets that you are going to use



  • getting the light maps of your models right - loads
    changes to the map to improve performance, how to adjust light maps densities, reduce uneeded meshes, reduction of texture sizes, how and where to apply texture culling etc. etc. - this maybe 30% of my time i rekon !!!

    QFT

    Also you missed the hours of rebuilding your lighting, and rebuilding your lighting, and rebuilding your lighting, and rebuilding your lighting. Did I mention rebuilding your lighting?

    There’s also moving your path nodes around with tweezers to get them in JUST the right spots. Ok the navmesh helps with that these days but back with UT3 or even UE2.5

    Also I’m quite experienced with unreal so if you have any questions I’d be happy to answer them. For generic tutorials the ones over on the UDN are good, if a but old but they’ll get you up on the basics.

    I shouldn’t have to know what these words mean to create a map.

    Yes you should. Blunt maybe, but yes you should.

    edit: To clarify, you should know this stuff so you can fix things you break, do things that go beyond any 3 button solution, and generally make better maps.

    Also you don’t need a heightmap to create a landscpae. You just need to give it correct size information (which granted is really really stupid, but it’s more or less the only magic numbers in the system right now). Have a look here: http://udn.epicgames.com/Three/LandscapeCreating.html

    once u learn the buttons its like a more complex lego on computer

    Also QFT

    I hate Blender with a passion that borders on madness.

    It does the job, max/maya do it better but that’s why they cost $3000+.

    Right! I hate using textures through kismit!! grrrrr

    The whole material instance reference and matinee thing is a pain in the arse, but it’s better than the old style Set material parameter which had a habit of overwriting the default and forcing you to have unnecessary reset functions.

    150 hours

    That’s quite conservative. I’d assume that’s not counting design and testing. Over the past two weeks I’ve probably put in ~25/30 hrs on my map already. That’s just A) editor time, not including design and thinking B) exuding testing, and C) Only stage one of 3.

    I’d point out that while wolfslair (which is what I’m assuming you’re referencing) is quite well put together and has a fair amount of complex kismet in it, it’s could do with a bit more polishing, at least in my opinion. Don’t get me wrong it’s a fun map but it could have a touch more finesse to it.

    TLDR: It’s not hard, it’s complex. And it’s complex because it needs to be.



  • You are quite right . there is that rebuilding the lighting yeah

    and placing those damn apples…… i still need advice on that i know i only half get it. Apparently if i could edit the scout class. and mine with no navmesh as it seems to envourage bot to look upwards which on my multi floor map aint good!!

    I guess i am digressing … really its a continual process of finding out i dont know somethinv. learninb about it the experimsnting with it before actually getting it working. Which is really great fun… :-)



  • You can get 3ds max free if you say you are a student. No proof required.


  • Developer

    @Flippy:

    How exactly is it over-rated? 3DS Max and Maya are both still more popular than Blender, and they’re the programs that are most commonly used in the movie and game industry. I can’t ever recall seeing a developer saying they used Blender.

    One of our artists uses Blender.

    One uses MODO

    And of course there’s Max and Maya…



  • @NATO:

    I’d point out that while wolfslair (which is what I’m assuming you’re referencing) is quite well put together and has a fair amount of complex kismet in it, it’s could do with a bit more polishing, at least in my opinion. Don’t get me wrong it’s a fun map but it could have a touch more finesse to it.

    I made the map in like 2 weeks with no “paperwork”, all just spontaneously in the editor :P, first TO map so i was mostly just experimenting, i know it need a polish overhaul which i might do in future!

    but thanks for the feedback :D



  • @lemonater47:

    You can get 3ds max free if you say you are a student. No proof required.

    Maybe so, but not for commercial use.



  • @NATO:

    Maybe so, but not for commercial use.

    Shh don’t tell them that.


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