0.8 flinch is more broken than 1.2



  • Not being able to punish combo feints from 2h is not as big a deal as some people think, you can always parry, just like a broadsword feinting you, it can still hit you even though you read it and hit into it.

    The real issue is weapons such as the longsword being punished for hitting someone and comboing, am I not supposed to be able to do this? why does someone else get trade or even full initiative after I have outplayed them in some way to get a hit? it makes no sense and is completely broken. You can play a longsword vs a lot of weapons and if you try and combo they can either trade or fully flinch you, such as the hatchet, how is this balanced, you can pretty much never safely combo with the longsword now which makes no sense, I thought the only weapons that are supposed to trade hits for initiative were the spears, seems I was incorrect.

    This post isn’t specifically for the longsword but it just seems like it is a weapon that is effected heavily by this change.



  • Yeah I don’t really like the flinch change for 2Handed weapons either.
    With the added recovery of combo feints I don’t think the change is necessary.



  • I think flinch should be dependent on the combo time of the hitting weapon. Some people argue that varying flinch times would make gameplay worse though. I think that’s something that should be tested in a beta at least.

    Well and the essence of 0.8 flinch discussion is in my signature ;)



  • @fvonb:

    Well and the essence of 0.8 flinch discussion is in my signature ;)

    What about fegs who both drag and feint?



  • @rumpelstiltskin:

    What about fegs who both drag and feint?

    They don’t like liking flinch, duh



  • I remember being able to do this pre-patch as an MaA.

    I also remember it always being a bad idea because it meant I would die every time I did it for a measly third of a knight’s HP.

    If anyone is reliably winning against you using this then I would be very surprised.



  • @KoalaBearJesty:

    Not being able to punish combo feints from 2h is not as big a deal as some people think, you can always parry, just like a broadsword feinting you, it can still hit you even though you read it and hit into it.

    The real issue is weapons such as the longsword being punished for hitting someone and comboing, am I not supposed to be able to do this? why does someone else get trade or even full initiative after I have outplayed them in some way to get a hit? it makes no sense and is completely broken. You can play a longsword vs a lot of weapons and if you try and combo they can either trade or fully flinch you, such as the hatchet, how is this balanced, you can pretty much never safely combo with the longsword now which makes no sense, I thought the only weapons that are supposed to trade hits for initiative were the spears, seems I was incorrect.

    This post isn’t specifically for the longsword but it just seems like it is a weapon that is effected heavily by this change.

    1. You cannot flinch longsword combos, not even with hatchet, best you get is a hittrade, which is terrible because you get hit TWICE. TWICE, do you really think this is op or something?

    I tested this, why the fuck are you lying to make your post look dramatic? If you use your footwork a TINY bit while comboing with it, you cant even hittrade it with hatchet.

    2. not being able to punish combo feints is A HUGE DEAL and lowers the skill ceiling dramatically. especially in duels

    holy shit, cant believe what im reading. must be some epitome of the panic parry casual chivalry



  • AFAIK you can’t get hit mid combo with longsword unless you delay, in which case you should get punished.



  • and even when you delay, you fucking trade

    what maa wants to trade with longsword after getting hit by it? this thread is fucking retarded



  • Hey you died BUT AT LEAST YOU GOT A HIT IN ON THAT KNIGHT RIGHT?



  • @KoalaBearJesty:

    how is this balanced

    By superior reach and damage. Here is what flinch does in gameplay terms: It gives faster weapons an edge as it makes it possible to hit your enemy faster and getting around a hit trade. 0.8 flinch on all weapons does this - it works.

    Flinch is not for being able to combo freely and if you picked a slower weapon. Speed is its disadvantage! You really got other things to compensate. Thats why you picked a slow weapon in the first place, right? Would be silly to reduce their supposed weakness only because you can’t wield them like faster weapons.

    The increased twohanded flinch just gave an unneeded and unfun advantage to twohanded weapons. Why does it flinch more if the damage delivered or the weapon is the same - only because its held in two hands instead of one? Thats stupid and I am glad its gone.

    As for the Longsword: It really hard to flinch a Longsword combo with a Hatchet: you got a window of 0.025-0.1 seconds at maximum as well as inferior reach and a bubble that amplifies that reach disadvanatge. Still the Longsword is a little too slow for its strength (compare: Greatsword, Grand Mace, Messer, Sword of War*) and might need a slight increase of speed.

    *Better hits to kill.



  • @dudeface:

    Hey you died BUT AT LEAST YOU GOT A HIT IN ON THAT KNIGHT RIGHT?

    YE MAN BES TACTIC EU SO OP NERF PLZ



  • @Evil:

    Still the Longsword is a little too slow for its strength (compare: Greatsword, Grand Mace, Messer, Sword of War*) and might need a slight increase of speed.

    I don’t really care to argue 2h flinch times but this caught my attention. Of fucking course the greatsword is better than the longsword. It’s a vanguard weapon. It’s supposed to be. Gmace isn’t used more often than the longsword in scrims and Messer is borderline trash tier with its shit range. Longsword is great and only needs a slight damage buff so it can 3 shot knight with overheads to the chest.



  • Yeah, I was playing as a knight with broadsword, and all I had to do after being hit by a 2-hander was look down and do an overhead. That means I got the initiative for free, with no effort at all. It is just broken. The game is balanced around combos being faster then a flinch+windup, which is no longer the case.



  • @MissingNo:

    Yeah, I was playing as a knight with broadsword, and all I had to do after being hit by a 2-hander was look down and do an overhead. That means I got the initiative for free, with no effort at all. It is just broken. The game is balanced around combos being faster then a flinch+windup, which is no longer the case.

    “after being hit by a 2-hander” = “I got the initiative for free”

    man lol, caveman logic

    what do you do when someone starts blocking those extremely predictable hits, or just ****s you with good combos?



  • @CRUSHED:

    “after being hit by a 2-hander” = “I got the initiative for free”

    man lol, caveman logic

    what do you do when someone starts blocking those extremely predictable hits, or just ****s you with good combos?

    If they block the hits, it means that they will have stopped the combo, thus losing the initiative.
    Good combos mean nothing if I can interrupt them by simply spamming after being hit.



  • @MissingNo:

    If they block the hits, it means that they will have stopped the combo, thus losing the initiative.
    Good combos mean nothing if I can interrupt them by simply spamming after being hit.

    If i parry you, i have the initiative. Free feint or riposte. Try again.

    You cant interrupt good combos, try your “just attack” tactic vs anyone who isnt terrible and see how hard you get destroyed



  • @CRUSHED:

    If i parry you, i have the initiative. Try again.

    If you stop your combo to parry, then I will simply not atack you right away, retaining the initiative. You still lost the initiative after hitting me, which is stupid.



  • @MissingNo:

    If you stop your combo to parry, then I will simply not atack you right away

    but then i will just keep comboing, keeping the initiative. Try again.



  • @CRUSHED:

    but then i will just keep comboing, keeping the initiative. Try again.

    if you keep comboing, I will interrupt you. It’s not really hard to understand, and saying “try again” makes you sound like a teenager.


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