Buff Warhammer damage



  • Another weapon i almost never see because it has been nerfed into oblivon.

    Havent seen it used in competitive play since over a year now

    Low range, bad speed, horrendous stab,bad feints, dragging on it is a gimmick at best and almost never works

    Completely outshadowed by messer,doubleaxe,grandmace,flanged mace, morningstar and heck even bearded axe and poleaxe

    Theres absolutely no excuse that this weapon is worse then flanged mace and morningstar since these are secondarys and warhammer is a primary

    I suggest in order to compensate for the negatives above, this weapon should two shot every class to the body with overheads, and oneshot archers to the head with overheads

    Then we would have something similar to a shorter,slower grandmace, except with onehanded animations that are a bit easier to aim

    More viable weapons plz.



  • Yeeeep

    /10chars



  • Here’s a disgustingly long, yet good discussion crushed and I had about the warhammer.

    Lions╟ Crushed: what u think about buffing warhammer damage?
    Lions╟ Crushed: weapon has been terrible
    Lions╟ Crushed: for ages
    Ɲohb’dy: i think that the warhammer is underrated. not good, but underrated
    Lions╟ Crushed: its rly bad man
    Lions╟ Crushed: the 2shot on knights
    Lions╟ Crushed: is never consistent
    Lions╟ Crushed: and its horribly slow
    Lions╟ Crushed: and horribly short
    Ɲohb’dy: that last statement
    Lions╟ Crushed: i know u can drag it man
    Ɲohb’dy: I think the bubble just neeeds to go
    Lions╟ Crushed: but its still slow as fuck
    Lions╟ Crushed: cmon
    Lions╟ Crushed: compare it to the grandmace
    Ɲohb’dy: I think it should be compared to the morning star and flanged mace though
    Lions╟ Crushed: both weapons are ALOT better
    Lions╟ Crushed: faster, ten times better stab, more range ( morningstar ) , harder to read feints ( morningstar )
    Lions╟ Crushed: flanged mace even 2 shots knights
    Lions╟ Crushed: or can 2shot em
    Lions╟ Crushed: wtf
    Ɲohb’dy: it’s a more powerful, faster, much shorter Morning Star and the it’s a more powerful, slower, similar reaching flanged mace
    Ɲohb’dy: i dont see it
    Lions╟ Crushed: how is it more powerful?
    Lions╟ Crushed: it doesnt do more damage
    Lions╟ Crushed: does it?
    Lions╟ Crushed: MS and flanged mace both
    Lions╟ Crushed: can 2 shot knights
    Ɲohb’dy: okay lemme explain
    Ɲohb’dy: shhh
    Lions╟ Crushed: its not faster then MS
    Lions╟ Crushed: u completely forget the stab
    Lions╟ Crushed: the stab plays a huge role
    Lions╟ Crushed: for these weapons
    Ɲohb’dy: good point
    Ɲohb’dy: but
    Ɲohb’dy: the MS and warhammer both two shot vanguard to the body, but the warhammer can do it with slashes and the MS cant. The MS also can’t two shot Knights and the flanged mace two shots knights with OHs only and BOTH to the head, where the warhammer two shots Knights with OHs OR slashes and only one head hit
    Ɲohb’dy: The Warhammer also has faster windups are comboes than the MS
    Ɲohb’dy: although the stab is admittedly
    Ɲohb’dy: slower
    Ɲohb’dy: perhaps buff the stab?
    Lions╟ Crushed: yes but morning star lookdown is faster
    Lions╟ Crushed: then warhammer
    Lions╟ Crushed: cause more range
    Lions╟ Crushed: and slashes dont mean shit
    Lions╟ Crushed: slash is horribly slow + tracers start far away
    Lions╟ Crushed: a morning star overhead is MUCH faster then a warhammer slash
    Ɲohb’dy: well the warhammer slash is the exact same speed as its OH
    Ɲohb’dy: but it’s easier to land
    Lions╟ Crushed: buffing the stab wont do shit
    Lions╟ Crushed: still trash tier weapon
    Lions╟ Crushed: ^^
    Lions╟ Crushed: its easier to land yes
    Lions╟ Crushed: but your forgetting
    Lions╟ Crushed: that the tracers
    Lions╟ Crushed: start
    Lions╟ Crushed: much further away
    Ɲohb’dy: true
    Lions╟ Crushed: and its much easier
    Lions╟ Crushed: to just flinch you
    Lions╟ Crushed: when you slash
    Ɲohb’dy: that’s an issue with flinch in release
    Lions╟ Crushed: tracers, weapon paths and animations play a huge role
    Ɲohb’dy: mhm
    Ɲohb’dy: and the MS OH btw
    Lions╟ Crushed: you know why numbers dont mean everything? let me explain you
    Ɲohb’dy: has a .5 windup, same as the SoW
    Ɲohb’dy: the warhammer OH and slash are .45
    Lions╟ Crushed: me and clayton tested the recovery times, we found out that every weapon with recovery more then .9 couldnt parry onehanders in time after hitting them (esentially a free hit)
    Lions╟ Crushed: thats what we thought
    Lions╟ Crushed: and we thought only maul and zweihander are affected
    Lions╟ Crushed: however
    Lions╟ Crushed: turns out
    Lions╟ Crushed: that poleaxe stab and grandmace overhead both have 1.0 recovery time
    Lions╟ Crushed: and YET you can parry in time with those weapons
    Lions╟ Crushed: why?
    Lions╟ Crushed: we asked the devs
    Lions╟ Crushed: they told us
    Lions╟ Crushed: Weapon paths,tracers,animations,range and even the position your character holds the weapon in
    Lions╟ Crushed: play a HUGE Role
    Lions╟ Crushed: so numbers arent everything
    Lions╟ Crushed: remember that
    Ɲohb’dy: interesting but
    Ɲohb’dy: that is all governed and programmed with numbers
    Lions╟ Crushed: i know
    Ɲohb’dy: :|
    Lions╟ Crushed: but still
    Lions╟ Crushed: i still say
    Lions╟ Crushed: warhammer
    Lions╟ Crushed: 2 shot knights
    Lions╟ Crushed: with overheads
    Lions╟ Crushed: no matter what
    Lions╟ Crushed: would be good
    Lions╟ Crushed: then there was a reason to use it
    Ɲohb’dy: okay, but
    Ɲohb’dy: let’s talk about how that would affect other weapons
    Lions╟ Crushed: nohby
    Lions╟ Crushed: ur forgetting
    Lions╟ Crushed: that warhammer is a primary
    Lions╟ Crushed: theres no excuse that flangedm ace and MS are better
    Ɲohb’dy: it would more powerful AND much faster than the bearded axe and Messer, the only reason to use them then is a bit of reach
    Ɲohb’dy: I’m concerned about that
    Lions╟ Crushed: bearded axe is already terrible
    Lions╟ Crushed: so that will need a rebalance too
    Lions╟ Crushed: messer?
    Lions╟ Crushed: messer can two shot knights, has more range, has VERY FAST and damaging lookdown overheads, has a brutal slash that can oneshot maa and archer, has slashes that are faster and longer that two shot vanguards, has EXTREME dragability
    Lions╟ Crushed: and it has sword animations, the best animations in the game
    Lions╟ Crushed: i really dont see how it would make the messer any weaker
    Lions╟ Crushed: they would both be viable weapons
    Lions╟ Crushed: right now warhammer, taking it just puts you in a bad spot
    Lions╟ Crushed: face it man
    Lions╟ Crushed: theres a reason noone uses it.
    Lions╟ Crushed: im usually the guy that maeksa underrated weapons
    Lions╟ Crushed: explores them
    Lions╟ Crushed: and makes them viable
    Lions╟ Crushed: just look at dubaxe
    Lions╟ Crushed: its seen as a powerful weapon now
    Lions╟ Crushed: because i showed peopel how to use it
    Lions╟ Crushed: i used falchion
    Lions╟ Crushed: which was considered trash tier
    Lions╟ Crushed: but i could NEVER use warhammer properly
    Lions╟ Crushed: it was jus too gimped
    Ɲohb’dy: well the current warhammer has the same HTK as the messer, the warhammer is faster, the slash isn’t supposed to one shot MaA on the messer, the warhammer’s slashes are faster too, but i’ll agree with the draggability
    Lions╟ Crushed: yes but the warhamer slashes
    Lions╟ Crushed: have lower range
    Lions╟ Crushed: so they hit later
    Lions╟ Crushed: much later
    Lions╟ Crushed: the thing is
    Lions╟ Crushed: your wrong
    Lions╟ Crushed: on the
    Lions╟ Crushed: warhmamer is faster part
    Lions╟ Crushed: seriously
    Lions╟ Crushed: you cant lookdwon overhead with warhammer
    Lions╟ Crushed: its laughable
    Lions╟ Crushed: but messer lookdowns
    Lions╟ Crushed: are very fast
    Ɲohb’dy: i understand that reach helps gain initiative
    Lions╟ Crushed: because
    Lions╟ Crushed: it has more range
    Lions╟ Crushed: adn the tracers
    Lions╟ Crushed: hit much earlier
    Ɲohb’dy: okay, i agree



  • I would like to add that the impact feedback is really weak, it does way more damage then you’d expect from the sound and feel when you get hit.



  • Too bad torn banner is nerfing already mediocre weapons such as the bearded axe, creating even more trash tier weapons.



  • Nerf/remove bubble first. Then look at the Warhammer. If its too weak buff the damage (also buff the Bearded Axe -> faster combos).



  • If the bubble goes this weapon will be much more viable but I agree with a slight damage nerf, the damage upon release was good, its single shots werent horribly overpowered but it did 2 shot everything reliably which i feel is fine



  • Overhead damage 80>82 (torso twoshots Knights but still needs a head hit for slash)?



  • @Evil:

    Overhead damage 80>82 (torso twoshots Knights but still needs a head hit for slash)?

    Sounds good to me.



  • I don’t know, I find the Warhammer a very decent support weapon. Deceptive drags too, if you can disperse them properly along the timeline of the fight.

    Warhammer & Kite + Norse is a pretty powerful complete toolbox that’s adaptable to several situations while not overly excelling in any one of them. Single hand Norse with no shield can be a great dueling setup though hehe.

    I just don’t think the Warhammer was meant to be one of those all around balanced weapons, like the SoW or Broadsword. It feels like it was meant to perform as a larger build, and when played as such, I think it really shines.



  • As a support weapon it lacks one thing: attack range. Still having the ability to go shield+“high damage tool” makes for a good setup when formations have broken up - but before you are basically a shieldbearer.

    Its a powerful tool against Knights but against other classes the low range and speed are a handicap (you can pick a secondary to mitigate this). Also it seems to work pretty well against people who insist on hittrades.



  • Buff a one-hander blunt weapon that has almost guaranteed 2 HTK versus all classes, and that may or may not become stronger due to the bubble shrink that is upcomming. True that the Warhammer is a very underused weapon, barely anyone plays it but that doesn’t neccesarily mean that it is a weak weapon. Back in release of chivalry, everyone was crying that the Warhammer was too strong, since it suffered no collision bubble to crash into, and it had a Guaranteed 2HTK on all classes (even with Slash vs Knights I think)
    So to buff it now without even testing how it plays out with the new bubble just because it is a underused weapon is just plain stupid way of balancing out the weapon. You should start thinking through some changes a little bit before talking about it, least the Warhammer buff doesn’t make any sense to me as it is already a powerful weapon.



  • @wildwulfy:

    Back in release of chivalry, everyone was crying that the Warhammer was too strong,

    Back in release of chivalry, people were bad.

    Its not underrated, its straight up bad. Thats why noone uses it. Also using slashes as an argument is horrible. Slashes are horrible on this weapon because the tracers start far away + its soo slow, its always better to use the overhead.

    Man lol, everyone thinking a 40% bubble reduction will suddenly change everything.

    Weapon was already bad before the bubble



  • Warhammer Vs. Grandmace:

    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Combo Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Combo Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Combo Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Release (Faster release doesn’t neccesarily mean its better tho, longer release = more drags)
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Release
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Release
    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Recovery
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Recovery
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Recovery
    Grandmace has higher base damage on Attack1
    Grandmace has higher base damage on Attack2
    Grandmace has higher base damage on Attack3
    Grandmace has longer reach at 54 (Warhammer has 22, also One-hander animations have longer extended arms than two-handed, so more reach, but Grandmace is still longer in the end)

    So, the edge for the Warhammer is being for one much more agile aswell, since it has a fast windup and has a decent rotation speed at: Horizontally: 50k, Vertically: 65k. While Grandmace is stuck at 45k on both horizontally and vertically rotation speed. So it is much easier to respond to enemy movement or drag with the Warhammer.

    The edge Grandmace has is higher base damage, longer reach and that is about it.



  • @wildwulfy:

    You should start thinking through some changes a little bit before talking about it,

    lolwut

    Crushed and I discussed it a fucking ton, did you not see my post?



  • @wildwulfy:

    Warhammer Vs. Grandmace:

    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Combo Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Combo Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Combo Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Release (Faster release doesn’t neccesarily mean its better tho, longer release = more drags)
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Release
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Release
    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Recovery
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Recovery
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Recovery
    Grandmace has higher base damage on Attack1
    Grandmace has higher base damage on Attack2
    Grandmace has higher base damage on Attack3
    Grandmace has longer reach at 54 (Warhammer has 22, also One-hander animations have longer extended arms than two-handed, so more reach, but Grandmace is still longer in the end)

    So, the edge for the Warhammer is being for one much more agile aswell, since it has a fast windup and has a decent rotation speed at: Horizontally: 50k, Vertically: 65k. While Grandmace is stuck at 45k on both horizontally and vertically rotation speed. So it is much easier to respond to enemy movement or drag with the Warhammer.

    The edge Grandmace has is higher base damage, longer reach and that is about it.

    Except that grandmace is faster on every attack thanks to lookdowns, weapon tracers & animation paths and handle hits + range



  • @wildwulfy:

    Warhammer Vs. Grandmace:

    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Combo Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Combo Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Combo Windup
    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Release (Faster release doesn’t neccesarily mean its better tho, longer release = more drags)
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Release
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Release
    Warhammer has faster Attack1 Recovery
    Warhammer has faster Attack2 Recovery
    Warhammer has faster Attack3 Recovery
    Grandmace has higher base damage on Attack1
    Grandmace has higher base damage on Attack2
    Grandmace has higher base damage on Attack3
    Grandmace has longer reach at 54 (Warhammer has 22, also One-hander animations have longer extended arms than two-handed, so more reach, but Grandmace is still longer in the end)

    So, the edge for the Warhammer is being for one much more agile aswell, since it has a fast windup and has a decent rotation speed at: Horizontally: 50k, Vertically: 65k. While Grandmace is stuck at 45k on both horizontally and vertically rotation speed. So it is much easier to respond to enemy movement or drag with the Warhammer.

    The edge Grandmace has is higher base damage, longer reach and that is about it.

    lol you just proved that the warhammer needs a buff



  • @Nohbdy111:

    lolwut

    Crushed and I discussed it a fucking ton, did you not see my post?

    He never plays the game and thinks looking at spreadsheets makes him know everything, when he completely forgets about range tracers animations weapon paths etc stuff like that



  • I take every factor of a weapon into account when I check if a weapon is broken, overpowered or underpowered. I actually do my bit of researching rather than just crying about a underused weapon. And how did I prove that Warhammer needed a buff Nohbdy111? I’m basically pointing out that the Warhammer is faster and more agile than Grandmace, just has less reach and base damage, yet the HTK’s are almost the same with the exception that Grandmace has a guaranteed 2HTK, if anything. Grandmace could need a nerf in order to make warhammer more favourable.

    And, Crushed? Can you start doing a bit more research before you start crying about that you aren’t able to CFTP with a Holy Water Sprinkler stab because it has a windup of 0.35, and the total feint window is windup - endfeintwindow, so 0.35 - 0.15 = 0.2 (feint window) You would have known that if you had done some research, rather than just crying about it.
    Look into the game files, you will learn a lot rather making assumptions. least as for Warhammer, I don’t really think it needs a buff, it is already a strong but underused weapon, same about Messer before Patch 2, still got buffed and voila. Now the new Bastard Sword Knight Meta usually depends on Messer.



  • Lol messer is medicore at best atm nowhere near a good weapon in the current meta.

    Grandmace still faster then warhammer tho, why you keep denying that?

    Yes so strong but underused, you are the genius, show us your hidden skills with the warhammer :D

    You are clueless. Jesus christ.


Log in to reply