Rework bearded axe completely



  • So we all know bearded axe is in a pretty bad shape now, but lets take a look in the past:

    This weapon has always been bad and a one trick pony. The only reason people ever used it was to make lookdown overhead combo feint overheads that had lightning speed and hit too early then the animation. For me personally, this weapon was never fun to use nor fun to play again IMO.

    So it had ridicoulus speed, but it had tiny release times and an already short weapon range, resulting in TINY actual range ingame on both overheads and slashes. Zero possibility to drag or make long distance overheads. Yes it had crazy speed and good damage (could 2 shot knights) but because of the range + release, windup combination resulting in its tiny range, i never saw it used in competitive play or anything serious outside of 1v1 duels with lookdown overheads.

    So now the bearded axe got slowed down because the overhead was retarded, and thus this weapon has absolutely nothing left anymore but okay damage, thus making it worse then the flails (probably)

    Lets look at the axe tree

    So we have the double axe, for short range, slow speed but massive damage on overheads and slashes, terrible stab
    Then we have the poleaxe, somewhat short range, but decent, better speed then the double axe, great stab and good damage

    And then we have the bearded axe…well uhm.

    So me and nohb’dy had this idea for a bearded axe rework that would make the weapon (or should) viable and fun to use. What if we had a balanced axe?

    Some thing like the balanced sword of the axes

    Range: Same as longsword
    Release times: Same as longsword
    Windup: -slightly- slower then longsword
    Combo times: somewhere between SoW and LS
    Stam drain: Longsword (pretty bad stam drain)
    Parry stam negation: Worse then longsword (your parrying with a wooden handle)
    Damage: 3HTK on knights with an overhead in there (2 slashes + overhead or 2 OH +1 slash etc), 1 OH needed to kill vanguards (so you cant kill vanguards with two slashes), two slashes / overheads for the rest. Stab would be awful damage on it, obviously.

    so obviously the drawbacks compared to longsword would be: bad, very bad stab, worse animations (axe vs sword animations is a no brainer) and the other stuff, however we would get slightly better HTK

    Anyway this is just an idea that we discussed, let me know what you guys think, maybe were crazy, but we think the bearded axe would be much more fun to use with such stats

    @Nohbdy111:

    We were thinking something along the lines of this:

    Messer
    attack1/99/cut/.525/.7/.6/.8
    attack2/90/chop/.55/.7/.6/.8
    attack3/60/pierce/.7/.75/.4/.8

    Bearded Axe
    attack1/75>67/chop/.475>.525/.75>.7/.45>.6/.8
    attack2/90>78/chop/.whateverthefuckitisaftertherecentnerf>.55/.75>.7/.4>.6/.7
    attack3/40/blunt/.55>.6/.65>.7/.4/.7
    Reach=Longsword

    Longsword
    attack1/75/cut/.5/.675/.55/.75
    attack2/82/cut/.525/.675/.6/.75
    attack3/61/pierce/.6/.7/.4/.85

    A weaker, longer Messer and a stronger, slower Longsword.

    ^ More detailed stats



  • I wish we had another variable, such as flinch time, with which to balance and differentiate weapons -__-



  • It should definitely cut doors down faster.

    Nah, but your ideas seem reasonable. It would be neat if axes caused bleeding damage and were balanced around that (wide, deep cuts), but I doubt that’s ever going to happen.



  • We were thinking something along the lines of this:

    Messer
    attack1/99/cut/.525/.7/.6/.8
    attack2/90/chop/.55/.7/.6/.8
    attack3/60/pierce/.7/.75/.4/.8

    Bearded Axe
    attack1/75>67/chop/.475>.525/.75>.7/.45>.6/.8
    attack2/90>78/chop/.whateverthefuckitisaftertherecentnerf>.55/.75>.7/.4>.6/.7
    attack3/40/blunt/.55>.6/.65>.7/.4/.7
    Reach=Longsword

    Longsword
    attack1/75/cut/.5/.675/.55/.75
    attack2/82/cut/.525/.675/.6/.75
    attack3/61/pierce/.6/.7/.4/.85

    A weaker, longer Messer and a stronger, slower Longsword.



  • So basically:

    • keep the damage (right now it does what the OP wrote and I see no reason to nerf it further)
    • buff the attack range (up to longsword range, which makes its effective range a little shorter because of the bad stab)
    • buff the combo times (they are really bad right now)

    I would also like to add:

    • more knockback than longsword (its an axe after all)
    • longer recovery than longsword (same reason but here Longsword might be buffed instead because its recovery times are terribad - unacceptable)

    => fast axe choice that still deals considerable damage (reach buff might be too much compared to the Messer though)

    Nohbdy111s suggestion (I don’t like the massive damage nerf)
    => longer but weaker Waraxe



  • What massive damage nerf? you can 3 shot knights with slashes, and kill vanguards with an overhead and a slash

    Its not supposed to 2shot knights with longswordish stats :P



  • If the main perk with bearded axe was the hax combo-feints

    Why not make the main stat fast combo times?



  • Bump.

    Let’s bring this to TBS’s attention again because there’s a good chance the next patch will be balance oriented.



  • Still never got the info from TBS on HOW it was slowed down from that one patch.

    In addition, I think bearded axe’s main perk should be fast combo times and fast releases.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Still never got the info from TBS on HOW it was slowed down from that one patch.

    In addition, I think bearded axe’s main perk should be fast combo times and fast releases.

    It doesn’t have fast combo times though :O



  • Yeah, thats what this thread is about – reworking it.

    Fast combo and release times should be what the bearded axe is about.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Yeah, thats what this thread is about – reworking it.

    Fast combo and release times should be what the bearded axe is about.

    Well just doing that isn’t really reworking it :/



  • “Range: Same as longsword”

    • Longsword range is longer than bearded axe because.
    1. It uses a ‘Longsword’ animation which is using more of the weapon lenght in its attack than ‘Doubleaxe’
    2. Lenght for Longsword is 72, while Bearded Axe is 61.
    3. Release times aren’t the same.
      Bearded:
      Attack1 =0.45
      Attack2 =0.55
      Attack3 =0.4

    Longsword:
    Attack1 =0.55
    Attack2 =0.6
    Attack3 =0.4

    The more release you have on your weapon, the more max range on the weapon you will get, since Longsword has range favour in both animation, weapon lenght and release times, Bearded axe can’t have the same range as longsword, so this is incorrect.

    Also the combo times are just a bit higher than messer, this was added because Bearded had a pretty short windup at one period.

    The stamina cost for parries you posted is somewhat correct. They intended to make it so that Axe, Sword and Blunt weapon classes had each their own role.
    Axe was intended to be a good stamina drain, but with poor negation.
    Swords were intended to have the best negation, but least effective stamina drain out of the three.
    Mace/blunt is the hybrid.

    but when we look at Bearded Axe, idk what happend there.

    What I think might make Bearded axe a bit more interesting, would be if we slightly increase the release and rotation speed, so that we would make Bearded Axe more agile and capable of drags or least make it more easier to manouver with.

    Right now it has a 45K rotation speed cap on both horizontally and vertical, which is the slowest you can get, except for charge attacks. What I think needs to be done, is that it would be increased to 55k on horizontal atlaest, that would make the weapon much better to manouver with ( tested this on my mod one day )

    That’s atleast what I have to say about this, the damage is fine imo.



  • Give the new pickaxe skin to bearded axe. Make it a warpick. Win/Win

    Edit:I ain’t gonna touch numbers, just an idea.



  • @Bluebeard:

    Give the new pickaxe skin to bearded axe. Make it a warpick. Win/Win

    Edit:I ain’t gonna touch numbers, just an idea.

    Make the pickaxe a new weapon, a swing-able pierce weapon!



  • @wildwulfy:

    “Range: Same as longsword”

    • Longsword range is longer than bearded axe because.
    1. It uses a ‘Longsword’ animation which is using more of the weapon lenght in its attack than ‘Doubleaxe’
    2. Lenght for Longsword is 72, while Bearded Axe is 61.
    3. Release times aren’t the same.
      Bearded:
      Attack1 =0.45
      Attack2 =0.55
      Attack3 =0.4

    Longsword:
    Attack1 =0.55
    Attack2 =0.6
    Attack3 =0.4

    Those are not the Bearded Axe’s release timings.

    The more release you have on your weapon, the more max range on the weapon you will get, since Longsword has range favour in both animation, weapon lenght and release times, Bearded axe can’t have the same range as longsword, so this is incorrect.

    We know…… We were talking about the weapon length itself, not counting when you’re sprinting.

    Also the combo times are just a bit higher than messer, this was added because Bearded had a pretty short windup at one period.

    mhmmmmmm

    The stamina cost for parries you posted is somewhat correct. They intended to make it so that Axe, Sword and Blunt weapon classes had each their own role.
    Axe was intended to be a good stamina drain, but with poor negation.
    Swords were intended to have the best negation, but least effective stamina drain out of the three.
    Mace/blunt is the hybrid.

    but when we look at Bearded Axe, idk what happend there.

    What I think might make Bearded axe a bit more interesting, would be if we slightly increase the release and rotation speed, so that we would make Bearded Axe more agile and capable of drags or least make it more easier to manouver with.

    Right now it has a 45K rotation speed cap on both horizontally and vertical, which is the slowest you can get, except for charge attacks. What I think needs to be done, is that it would be increased to 55k on horizontal atlaest, that would make the weapon much better to manouver with ( tested this on my mod one day )

    Let’s not beat around the bush and actually completely rework the weapon. Why not how I suggested? A longer, weaker Messer.

    That’s atleast what I have to say about this, the damage is fine imo.

    the damage is fine in my suggestion or as it is now?



  • Wolfy we never said thats how it was the “range same as longsword” etc. was how we thought we could rework the weapon.



  • Don’t get mad, I just figured I’d help to fill in the information you had left out.
    No problem!



  • Nohbdy111, if we are just comparing weapons while standing completely still, movement speed, acceleration and release won’t come into play that determs the max range for a weapon. So, analyzing the max range with sprinting is essentional but outside that. From just standing still, I strongly believe that longsword will have the higher reach due to longer weapon lenght and different attack animation that was different grip socket points.

    As for the damage, I think the currenty damage is kinda fine. If they made stab slightly faster and made the rotation speed on the weapon slightly faster, I think Bearded Axe would become viable as a high manouverable and agile weapon that uses the ‘Doubleaxe’ animation set.

    Increasing the release will also contribute with giving it more reach, and in the end we will have a weapon that is more capable of attacking from a distance, even better. A more suitable weapon to follow up a dodging man-at arms possibly.

    Least we should give it a try.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    Still never got the info from TBS on HOW it was slowed down from that one patch.

    In addition, I think bearded axe’s main perk should be fast combo times and fast releases.

    Fast release is bad. You can negate the release time by dragging your weapon, so a fast release only makes delayed drags innefective, while offering no real advantage.


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