One Handed SoW rubbish?



  • Compared to the 1H Longsword, there’s almost no reason to use 1H SoW. Longsword is longer, does 15 more damage with overhead, 5 more damage in a slash all for the amazing bonus of 5 extra damage in a stab.

    | 1H Longsword | Slash/Attack 1 | 60 |
    Overhead/Attack 2 | 75 |
    Stab/Attack 3 | 55 |
    | 1H Sword of War | Slash/Attack 1 | 55 |
    Overhead/Attack 2 | 60 |
    Stab/Attack 3 | 60 |

    Here’s the timings.

    Windup | Combo | Release | Recovery | W+R+R | W+R+C |
    | 1H Longsword | 0.45 | 0.7 | 0.5 | 0.65 | 1.6 | 1.65 |
    0.45 | 0.75 | 0.45 | 0.7 | 1.6 | 1.65 |
    0.5 | 0.65 | 0.35 | 0.6 | 1.45 | 1.5 |
    | 1H Sword of War | 0.45 | 0.7 | 0.45 | 0.65 | 1.55 | 1.6 |
    0.45 | 0.75 | 0.4 | 0.75 | 1.6 | 1.6 |
    0.5 | 0.65 | 0.35 | 0.65 | 1.5 | 1.5 |

    I’ve been using it for ages and InTim asked me why when in almost every way Longsword was better. Surely this needs a buff; probably a speed buff.



  • It’s a stab only weapon, very effective against VGs if you have good timing. Other areas need a buff, stab is fine.

    1h longsword sounds better if you can land the overhead….and that doesn’t happen very often.



  • Yeah, but the difference between a stab of 55 and 60 is hardly justification to be a stab predominant weapon. Especially considering the longsword is longer. I’d prefer the SoW to stay as a stabby weapon, so rather than buffing the other damages which would make the weapons almost completely indistinguishable make it faster and/or increase the stab damage.

    This is probably all tied up with the odd nerfs the longsword and SoW got in one and two handed varieties. I’d prefer to see SoW get a general stab buff so that the two weapons show a real difference.



  • The problem is the Longsword and SoW are essentially the same weapon, one being slightly longer than the other. If you speed up SoW then it just becomes a longer Norse sword. If you increase it’s damage it becomes a slightly short longsword. It is basically a redundant weapon in 1 handed mode.

    How about give it a semi-unique attribute of having very quick recovery times. So basically it becomes a weapon of single, precise strikes. So to combo with it becomes less efficient, give up combo speed for faster recovery (but same windup/release), then focus the longsword to have better combo capabilities. This would lead to very different ways of using the two very similar swords.



  • @Toll:

    The problem is the Longsword and SoW are essentially the same weapon, one being slightly longer than the other. If you speed up SoW then it just becomes a longer Norse sword. If you increase it’s damage it becomes a slightly short longsword. It is basically a redundant weapon in 1 handed mode.

    Well you could just up the stab damage which would make the stab almost as good as the stab on any one of the Vanguard swords. That would at least make it unique.

    @Toll:

    How about give it a semi-unique attribute of having very quick recovery times. So basically it becomes a weapon of single, precise strikes. So to combo with it becomes less efficient, give up combo speed for faster recovery (but same windup/release), then focus the longsword to have better combo capabilities. This would lead to very different ways of using the two very similar swords.

    This is actually a good idea.



  • I like both ideas. The Sword of War is supposed to be a specialized stabbing sword but right now the stab is some kind of a lackluster in onehanded mode (twohanded there is less of a problem as the stab decreases the hits to kill heavier classes). So either up the damage on both versions such that the onehanded can twoshot Vanguards but not threeshot Knights (in my opinion the twohanded stab should do more damage than the Greatsword stab - which can be done without affecting the major HTK - head and torso) or increase the speed on the onehanded version to make it more effective comapred to the Longsword (1H).

    The second idea (give up combo times for faster recovery) is an idea that might work on all onehanded bastard swords:

    • twohanded mode gives you more damage and faster combos
    • onehanded mode gives you faster single strikes (windup and recovery)
      The current values already lean towards this so why not put a little more emphasis on it to better differentiate onehanded swords and onehanded bastard swords?


  • Are those values current Dr Zob? I’ve always felt that the 1h SoW was faster….maybe its just that the turn rate is faster than the 1h LS?
    Personally i think the 1h LS and 1h SoW are both rubbish, but i do like to use them a lot.
    There is no reason why you wouldn’t just use the broadsword instead, except that the 1h LS and 1h SoW are cool.
    I think that the 1h LS needs some love - its swing damage needs a bit of a buff and i think either speed the weapon up OR increase its turn rate cap so you can drag it more freely.

    1h SoW deserves a bit of a buff to stab damage i think, people should fear its stab given that it IS a stabbing weapon…at the moment the average joe blow would be none the wiser to this fact.



  • I think it’s better stab is what makes it so good. The longsword is more versatile and that’s the point, but comboing 1h bastard swords isn’t always a good idea and you can control a lot of fights even against multiple opponents with your SoW 1h pokes behind a shield. I love my longsword 1h and shield, but I actually find the SoW 1h and shield better when I do use it because it has better control in more situations, and offers more damage in most team fights where you’re going to be using more stabs than overheads and slashes.

    It’s certainly not rubbish.



  • Neither the 1h LS or 1h SoW instil fear in your opponent though…they’re just like ‘oh he’s gimped himself, my broadsword / VG insert roflcopter will steam roll this’ and to be honest that is a true statement. Its much easier, nay, too easy to use the broadsword or VG.

    That said i think its fine that the broad sword is cake to use it is a cheap and effective weapon. However, with the game in its current state there is no benefit to becoming an expert with the more difficult to use weapons in the game such as the flail, warhammer, or polehammer as these weapons lack the sting they deserve. Sure TB, make them slow and clunky to use, but when you do score a hit make it count and make the weapon something to be feared, make the range and hit tracer a reasonable thing.



  • @SOC:

    I think it’s better stab is what makes it so good. The longsword is more versatile and that’s the point.

    That works out just fine with the twohanded versions (and is also a reason why the Longsword should not threeshot Knights with torso hits) but in the onehanded version it doesn’t translate into a significant advantage. The stab has a mere excess damage advantage here while both strikes are significantly weaker. Timings are the almost same and the reach is shorter - which is indeed noticable (and killed many people who believed it to be “just a slower Broadsword”).

    So compared to the 1H Longsword the 1H Sword of War is lacking and thus also compared to the Broadsword (which is about as strong as the 1H Longsword but more “well rounded”). Not talking about the Vanguard swords here as they are of an entirely different league.



  • @Giantyak:

    Are those values current Dr Zob? As far as I know they are, I got them from the stickied thread in this forum.

    @SOC:

    I think it’s better stab is what makes it so good. The longsword is more versatile and that’s the point,@Evil:

    That works out just fine with the twohanded versions (and is also a reason why the Longsword should not threeshot Knights with torso hits) but in the onehanded version it doesn’t translate into a significant advantage. The stab has a mere excess damage advantage here while both strikes are significantly weaker. Timings are the almost same and the reach is shorter - which is indeed noticable (and killed many people who believed it to be “just a slower Broadsword”).

    So compared to the 1H Longsword the 1H Sword of War is lacking and thus also compared to the Broadsword (which is about as strong as the 1H Longsword but more “well rounded”). Not talking about the Vanguard swords here as they are of an entirely different league.

    Exactly. I’m not sure if people reading this are actually looking at the numbers but they simply don’t add up. When choosing the SoW 1H you are sacrificing 15 damage in overheads and 5 damage in slashed for an extra 5 stab damage. The timings are almost identical.



  • So Mr E and Dr Z,
    Given that the broadsword is much more likely to successfully land a hit and has a high chance of landing an extra hit in the time it takes for the 1h bastard swords to make 1 successful hit don’t you think that the 1h bastard swords should do more damage then the broadsword?
    I think the numbers in that sticky thread can be deceiving, sure they have their use, but in practise on the battlefield (TO/FFA/etc) my experience suggests that the broadsword’s efficacy far out weighs that of the 1h bastard swords. That makes me unhappy because i prefer the 1h bastard swords and i take them much more frequently than the broadsword, but in terms of performance i think the 1h bastard swords are really weak compared to the broadsword or even other loadouts……



  • @giantyak:

    So Mr E and Dr Z,
    Given that the broadsword is much more likely to successfully land a hit and has a high chance of landing an extra hit in the time it takes for the 1h bastard swords to make 1 successful hit don’t you think that the 1h bastard swords should do more damage then the broadsword?
    I think the numbers in that sticky thread can be deceiving, sure they have their use, but in practise on the battlefield (TO/FFA/etc) my experience suggests that the broadsword’s efficacy far out weighs that of the 1h bastard swords. That makes me unhappy because i prefer the 1h bastard swords and i take them much more frequently than the broadsword, but in terms of performance i think the 1h bastard swords are really weak compared to the broadsword or even other loadouts……

    The benefit of 1-hand bastard swords is that you effectively have 3 weapons: 2-hand sword, sword and board (with very good reach), and you can also take a blunt secondary to mash up knights.

    One of my favourite TO loadouts at the moment it longsword, morning star and kite, and I genuinely use all combinations possible depending on the situation.



  • 1h Sword of War is really damn good vs Vanguard but 1h Longsword is still pretty good against Vanguard while still being better at everything else because you can use every attack and combo safely, while also being dragable.

    1h Sword of war feints are fucking nasty though and the stab being a little bit faster lets you catch people who are target switching or dancing, trying to run away from you. Its very niche compared to longsword but it does need a slight buff so its not a single stab weapon that that has 2 other attacks never worth using. Perhaps just make the other 2 attacks faster so its like a longer norse sword.



  • I have found one-handed Sword of War to be effective due to the Two hit to kill on body hit Versus Man-at Arms, also if you score a stab to the head versus a Vanguard, another body hit will be enough to take them out in two hits.

    Sword of War has the edge with being the better bastard sword in one-hand for thrusting, due to its high enough base damage to have less HTK’s, also the knockback on the stab is higher than the Longsword, and a tiny bit faster. The Longsword is more so the Hybrid, which makes it both effective at Swinging and thrusting.

    As for Messer when we are going on about One-handed bastard swords, I’d say Messer is pretty effective too despite its long windup time for a one-hander. It has of course higher power in its swing, and can kill Vanguards and Knights faster than the other Bastard swords. But, the messer in one-hand could perhaps need a tiny bit of buff, but it isn’t really neccesary.

    I think they’re all nicely balanced.

    Remember how annoying 1hsharp stabs are with Broadswords, they can be likewise with Bastard swords in one-hand.



  • @wildwulfy:

    I have found one-handed Sword of War to be effective due to the Two hit to kill on body hit Versus Man-at Arms, also if you score a stab to the head versus a Vanguard, another body hit will be enough to take them out in two hits.

    You can do the same with the Longsword overhead and even cross-attack (stab+overhead as long as one hits the head). And MaA can be killed by two overheads (even if you only hit the feet) or slashes.

    Then the stab timings are almost exactly the same (Longsword even has a tiny bit less recovery) so onehanded Longsword feints should work in the same way. So in the end the Longsword is longer and more versatile while the Sword of War… got nothing.



  • @giantyak:

    So Mr E and Dr Z,
    Given that the broadsword is much more likely to successfully land a hit and has a high chance of landing an extra hit in the time it takes for the 1h bastard swords to make 1 successful hit don’t you think that the 1h bastard swords should do more damage then the broadsword?
    I think the numbers in that sticky thread can be deceiving, sure they have their use, but in practise on the battlefield (TO/FFA/etc) my experience suggests that the broadsword’s efficacy far out weighs that of the 1h bastard swords. That makes me unhappy because i prefer the 1h bastard swords and i take them much more frequently than the broadsword, but in terms of performance i think the 1h bastard swords are really weak compared to the broadsword or even other loadouts……

    Yeah this is part of the problem, the 1 handed bastard swords offer pretty much nothing over the broadsword except a little bit of extra range and again, if that’s what you want you may as well take the longsword. The SoW 1H does less damage on an overhead than the broadsword- 60 compared to 70, and _less _than the Norse 60 compared to 65!

    I think an ability to reliably two shot vans would be a good improvement, by upping the stab damage by 2 and by upping the overhead to 70 (same as a broadsword) allowing a stab to the head followed by an overhead or two stabs to kill a Van.



  • I use both 1H LS and 1H SoW and honestly prefer having the faster release on the SoW stab as opposed to the extra damage and draggability of the LS, it just seems easier to run down MaA and kiting Vanguards with it.

    What really irks me though is that the LS has a more draggable stab and a shorter recovery time than the SoW stab, all for 5 less damage whilst having significantly better stats on the other strikes. If they upped the damage a few points and reduced the recovery time on the SoW stab it would make a pretty significant difference in my opinion, whilst keeping it as a stabbing weapon.

    Not too sure how I feel about the idea of slowing down the combo times on the 1H strikes though, they already feel really sluggish at times. Could just be the animations though.



  • @LTTLWLF:

    faster release on the SoW stab as

    Its about the onehanded Sword of War: same windup, same release, same combo, longer recovery, same hits to kill.

    Faster release times are only on the strikes - but those deal significantly less damage. Slowing down the combo times is not needed, they are already pretty slow.



  • These Bastard swords in one-hand was never designed to be held in one hand without a shield in the other, so I would guess they kinda had balanced around the idea of having a Bastard Sword and a Shield, rather than making it a much faster version than the Two handed one, so it would have a drawback regardless of having a strong shield.

    Only way I could assume the way they made the 1H versions.


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