Idea for Vanguard Buckler



  • So:

    I always thought it would be an interesting addition to the Vanguard class to opt out of using a secondary weapon and instead be equipped with a small buckler on the left forearm. Most higher skill Vanguards simply choose not to ever draw their secondary weapon choice in combat.

    This buckler, which could not be activated or raised, would simply serve as a small missile deflection tool. The Vanguard is one of the weakest classes to ranged units and this buckler could give them inactive cover to roughly 1/6 of their body. It would mostly cover their middle left section worn on top of the left forearm. If this idea seems too strong (considering this is a slight remedy to their main weakness) then perhaps only allow it to deflect arrows, sling stones, and knives. Larger and heavier thrown weapons such as the axe and javelin will still inflict full or partial damage.

    Does anyone see this item being a viable implement in TB’s game?

    I picture something about this small, but worn slightly higher towards the elbow:



  • The time and effort they would have to put into this could easily be used to add a new weapon, but it wouldn’t hurt to have some extra protection vs archers, since you can’t do anything to prevent getting hit by arrows (except moving in a zig-zag and having a good archer in your team). Smoke lasts for too little, and you can’t just charge into the archers because they will have teammates close by.



  • Yeah. The idea is to not “fix” the problem of vanguard vs. archer but rather give the vanguard a marginally better chance against a skilled archer. I also feel like there is a good amount of weapon variety in Chivalry. I wouldn’t mind seeing some different items like this with a more utilitarian approach to combat.



  • Vanguards have the best melee weapons in the game. Their only real downside is a lack of shield.

    Also if they did introduce a proper buckler like in the picture above I would prefer it to work more as a melee shield that isn’t very good at blocking projectiles but allows ripostes off a shield block.



  • @Dr:

    Vanguards have the best melee weapons in the game. Their only real downside is a lack of shield.

    Also if they did introduce a proper buckler like in the picture above I would prefer it to work more as a melee shield that isn’t very good at blocking projectiles but allows ripostes off a shield block.

    I agree that your idea is an interesting one, but I would imagine it would be something much more time consuming to program (and hash out bugs etc). My shield idea would hopefully be a relatively easy object to insert into the game’s script.



  • Um, no. Vanguards are supposed to be the most vulnerable to archer fire, since they have the strongest melee. Plus this would ruin the point of using any of the other secondaries, since nobody uses them anyway. Everyone would pick the buckler for the passive protection.

    And there’s a lot more you can do against archer fire than just do random zig zagging. In fact, zig zagging makes you really easy to shoot.



  • @Flippy:

    And there’s a lot more you can do against archer fire than just do random zig zagging. In fact, zig zagging makes you really easy to shoot.

    Yes, I forgot to mention the “keep your head low and pray to god that he misses” technique



  • I think VG should be allowed to have the option of heater shield, kite shield, and buckler. BUT, if the VG takes a shield he can only take 1h weapons, with the exception of maybe the spear (used in 1h).



  • @giantyak:

    I think VG should be allowed to have the option of heater shield, kite shield, and buckler. BUT, if the VG takes a shield he can only take 1h weapons, with the exception of maybe the spear (used in 1h).

    He would literally just be a weaker one handed knight. No, vanguards are supposed to use the big damaging weapons.



  • Sure, but:
    -it’d give the VG an option if theres lots of archers about.
    -If VG was allowed to use the spear as a 1h option with shield it’d be unique but suitable for a VG class thing.
    -the VG would be a ‘weaker knight’ but he has different movement rates which maybe beneficial
    -if VG is someones favourite class i don’t think they should feel that they have to change to another class just because the other team has billions of archers.

    I haven’t included my personal opinion in this, but these are just the points i’m thinking about.



  • Give vanguards as a secondary weapon a two-handed tower shield that can be placed on the ground (like the archer shield). That’s the only shield that I’d like for vanguards. This would allow vanguards to get from a to b without being completely vulnerable to archers while not being able to fight with shields



  • Vanguards with shields? No way… Playing as vanguard is about being vulnerable to archers.
    PS Vanguards have shield section in customization menu. It is unused, but it should be used for painting brassards.



  • One way this could work actually, is if the shield takes up a weapon slot, so you could basically only use fists with it. Think that could be a cool addition actually.



  • Vanguards were intended to be vulerable to Archers since they first started making the game, they are pretty much kinda a full offensive class due to their long reach and power with their weapons.

    All that is required to even out th effectiveness of an archer with the rest of the classes is if they get around to nerf archers which we might get in the next balance patch hopefully.



  • @S0ldier:

    Vanguards with shields? No way… Playing as vanguard is about being vulnerable to archers.
    PS Vanguards have shield section in customization menu. It is unused, but it should be used for painting brassards.

    I actually disagree with this statement.
    The vanguards place is actually to have better armour than MaA and to use heavy weapons but be slightly more mobile than the knight. The reality is there is actually nothing to stop a VG from grabbing a shield - its a bit of a nonsensical notion that a VG would not take a shield if it was the case that he should. In fact VG’s did carry shields at times, however, this kit naturally procludes the VG from carrying the heavy weapons that he does now. He’d instead take other weapons or a 1h spear/pike.

    I think TB should rectify this problem - it’d add some depth to the game. There is no negative here just positive addition.



  • @giantyak:

    I actually disagree with this statement.
    The vanguards place is actually to have better armour than MaA and to use heavy weapons but be slightly more mobile than the knight. The reality is there is actually nothing to stop a VG from grabbing a shield - its a bit of a nonsensical notion that a VG would not take a shield if it was the case that he should. In fact VG’s did carry shields at times, however, this kit naturally procludes the VG from carrying the heavy weapons that he does now. He’d instead take other weapons or a 1h spear/pike.

    I think TB should rectify this problem - it’d add some depth to the game. There is no negative here just positive addition.

    During Early beta, Vanguards use to be the class that had the Kite shield, but that was obviously taken out for the reason that TB wanted Vanguards to be more vulerable to Archers, and that they are especially right now because they don’t have the movement speed nor the dodge as a Man-at arms, nor the armour of a Knight. so it pretty much has nothing to back themselves up against an Archer, and its suppose to sort of be that way, least that’s the way TB designed it to be.

    Shame smokepots aren’t any useful.



  • Everyone’s weak to archers, except other archers because they have to way to at least retaliate against them. That just comes with a game where class vs class, sort of like Sniper in TF2 is the only real counter available to another sniper.

    Vanguard, while having no shield to protect themselves against projectiles, do have the charge attack which at times can be a god send for closing that last bit of distance and even one shotting the archer or heavily draining their stamina. So they do have that at least in their arsenal to help against archers. I would go as far as to say that it can be better than having a shield at times because against the best of archers, a shield will just cause you to tunnel vision and that’s just asking for your legs to get shot, no matter how much you may spaz your mouse out in an attempt to make the archer miss his shot.

    It’s not much but meh. I don’t think Vanguards have it that bad against archers, everyone cops it, just they feel it more because no shield.
    What I’m trying to say is, Vanguards are probably the most vulnerable of the 3 melee based classes against archers but they also have the best skill to kill archers which is the charge.



  • @DokB:

    Everyone’s weak to archers, except other archers because they have to way to at least retaliate against them. That just comes with a game where class vs class, sort of like Sniper in TF2 is the only real counter available to another sniper.

    Vanguard, while having no shield to protect themselves against projectiles, do have the charge attack which at times can be a god send for closing that last bit of distance and even one shotting the archer or heavily draining their stamina. So they do have that at least in their arsenal to help against archers. I would go as far as to say that it can be better than having a shield at times because against the best of archers, a shield will just cause you to tunnel vision and that’s just asking for your legs to get shot, no matter how much you may spaz your mouse out in an attempt to make the archer miss his shot.

    It’s not much but meh. I don’t think Vanguards have it that bad against archers, everyone cops it, just they feel it more because no shield.
    What I’m trying to say is, Vanguards are probably the most vulnerable of the 3 melee based classes against archers but they also have the best skill to kill archers which is the charge.

    Personally I’m a lot more scared of you as a MAA than any archer.

    More people will aim at vanguards because they aren’t that fast, don’t have a shield and die easier than knight. They are also seen to be a bigger threat than a knight.

    Better smoke for vanguards.



  • Max speed sprint Vanguard isn’t that much slower than a MaA max sprint speed. The archer aims for the Vanguard for all the reasons you listed, but I would say the biggest reason they do so is because the Vanguard can be a big threat if they miss and starting closing the distance.

    Smoke is laughably pathetic against archers, I would suggest being able to throw it further than you already can and maybe have some sort of effect while standing near it/in it (vision blurs) so you can at least piss off archers and force them to move.



  • Vanguards have the option of smoke, that is how they deal with archers. Smoke needs a duration buff and possibly cover a wider radius. Also, the Line Of Sight aiming dot should NOT provide feedback through smoke.


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