Spartans: A rational balance discussion from an experienced player



  • I feel like the compaints against spartans are slightly exadurated. While being “OP” i would say they are hard to use. and infexable. and their swords really are not all that. i can see a slight damage redux on the swords but reallly i think they are okay. But yea. pirates need a buff desperately . and i will agree to the damage redux on the dory. but ehh i still think they are easy enough to doge in most cases…. unless your a pirate of course

    And please dont accuse me of defending my “favorite” class… because really its my worst class aside from pirate



  • @airborne101st45:

    I did…I’ve been playing since early release.

    June was not early release. Early release was the beta in September. Alpha was the 30 people picked to play alpha.



  • Comparison to pirate isn’t very fair, since everything about pirate was nerfed into the ground due to a mix of some valid but mostly invalid complaints.

    Anyway, I identified Spartans as a cut above the other classes some time before release but focus was mainly on the main outliers at the time which were the much maligned pirates and the rather useless Vikings, who were respectively nerfed and buffed with their core design problems remaining intact. Spartans would be much easier to tweak down because their design is solid. Pirates will always be controversial because of guns, Vikings are hard to really address because there are still several large inconsistencies with the berserk and dual wield mechanics.



  • Spartan’s 1 hit dory throw to the body is pretty crap. Even if they hit you in the toe it’s most of your life. Dory to the toe plus super hard to block shield bash = dead. I’ve said shield bash was crap since beta. They just need to give them the other 2 sword swing directions and get rid of it. Makes no sense anyways. Pirate being buffed…please no. They are so powerful if they work as a team, or with their team. Pirates are an amazing support troop, they don’t need any buffs. (I do like pirates, I don’t like getting killed across the map).



  • @Helrin2:

    Spartan’s 1 hit dory throw to the body is pretty crap. Even if they hit you in the toe it’s most of your life. Dory to the toe plus super hard to block shield bash = dead. I’ve said shield bash was crap since beta. They just need to give them the other 2 sword swing directions and get rid of it. Makes no sense anyways. Pirate being buffed…please no. They are so powerful if they work as a team, or with their team. Pirates are an amazing support troop, they don’t need any buffs. (I do like pirates, I don’t like getting killed across the map).

    Pirates aren’t even powerful in a team. As samurai you can group charge a team of pirates across open ground and win.



  • I don’t understand why everyone keeps complaining about the Spartans being OP. They are very hard to use considering that most of their attacks are thrusts. A phalanx is pretty powerful if they advance close to each other with shields up and chucking spears, but that’s the point! A lone Spartan is easy pickings for most everyone as he only has his tricky shield bash to his advantage. As a Pirate or Ninja, I feel that dueling a Spartan one on one is far easier than a Viking, Samurai or, God help me, a Knight. Think about it, the Spartan can’t even spam LM like almost every other class.

    The only real time I seriously felt that a Spartan was ridiculously overpowered was when a player always managed to hit me every time with his thrown javelins even as I tried to dodge everywhere as a Ninja… pretty sure he was using an aimbot tho…

    That said, the Spartans could use a minor nerf to their Falcata, it is unnecessarily powerful. That or give them more swords or make the other ones more useful.



  • @Chupacabrozo:

    I don’t understand why everyone keeps complaining about the Spartans being OP. They are very hard to use considering that most of their attacks are thrusts. A phalanx is pretty powerful if they advance close to each other with shields up and chucking spears, but that’s the point! A lone Spartan is easy pickings for most everyone as he only has his tricky shield bash to his advantage. As a Pirate or Ninja, I feel that dueling a Spartan one on one is far easier than a Viking, Samurai or, God help me, a Knight. Think about it, the Spartan can’t even spam LM like almost every other class.

    The only real time I seriously felt that a Spartan was ridiculously overpowered was when a player always managed to hit me every time with his thrown javelins even as I tried to dodge everywhere as a Ninja… pretty sure he was using an aimbot tho…

    That said, the Spartans could use a minor nerf to their Falcata, it is unnecessarily powerful. That or give them more swords or make the other ones more useful.

    DW has to be balanced around team vs. team, not duel or FFA. Spartans are a big cut above the other classes in that situation, and aren’t necessarily weak individually like, say, a pirate.



  • They are, actually, very individually weak in comparison to the other heavy melee classes; Samurai, Viking and Knight. I honestly feel that the Spartans excel far more at being a support class than actual offensive units, pair 'em up with anyone else besides just other Spartans and they can provide excellent cover, but they are very limited in their options all by themselves. The common Samurai vs Spartan death match is a good example of this, Samurai will win 80% of the time, simply because they have tons of options in comparison to just forming a phalanx, which is all that the Spartans can do.



  • Spartans are ridiculous, I think the devs have watched this “300” movie one too many time.
    The first thing they need to fix about those Spartans is how fast they can recover from a kick before putting their shields back up.
    This time should be at least tripled.



  • To be honest, most of the time I see the Vikings win deathmatches but yea, the Spartans need some work. Everything about them makes the pirates look like shit. Hell, even Yumi spam can make ranged pirate look weak. I think if the ranged javelin spam was reduced for the Spartans everything would be fine. Also, why are the Spartans using falcatas? That’s an Iberian weapon, not Greek.



  • Spartans are by far the best class in DW, if you disagree you’re retarded.

    The other classes need to be buffed or spartan needs various small nerfs.



  • I find that pairing a Sarissa Spartan up with virtually any other Spartan results in a pretty devastating combo, assuming the guy with the sarissa knows what he’s doing. The effect is noticeable in other classes with any decent polearm, but seems to be especially pronounced when everyone always has a shield. When they’re not all trying to avoid skewering each other, they make excellent shock troopers.

    Having seen and fought people like EnSvensk and Irish Canadian, I’m honestly not quite sure what to make of spartans 1v1. They never used the falcata, (for reasons I like to think are fairly obvious) but were still able to pretty easily tear most people to bits. I’m not sure whether to attribute this to their ability to block almost indefinitely or individual skill, but they’re definitely outliers. Most Spartans I see getting decent scores 1v1 usually rely on the falcata or point blank spear tosses, which I also think need a nerf (The point-blank, not the toss itself).



  • Spears that combo for days and super long reach scare me…



  • Why combo for days? All they gotta do is throw it at you and you drop like you’ve been hacked or something.



  • the Sarissa can’t be thrown that’s that extremely long spear with the small shield



  • @Xann:

    I find that pairing a Sarissa Spartan up with virtually any other Spartan results in a pretty devastating combo, assuming the guy with the sarissa knows what he’s doing. The effect is noticeable in other classes with any decent polearm, but seems to be especially pronounced when everyone always has a shield. When they’re not all trying to avoid skewering each other, they make excellent shock troopers.

    Having seen and fought people like EnSvensk and Irish Canadian, I’m honestly not quite sure what to make of spartans 1v1. They never used the falcata, (for reasons I like to think are fairly obvious) but were still able to pretty easily tear most people to bits. I’m not sure whether to attribute this to their ability to block almost indefinitely or individual skill, but they’re definitely outliers. Most Spartans I see getting decent scores 1v1 usually rely on the falcata or point blank spear tosses, which I also think need a nerf (The point-blank, not the toss itself).

    They never use the falcata because the xiphos and kopis are better really. The falcata deals the damage and people usually have problems in pushing right click in DW for some reason. But against any good player the xiphos is much better. And the kopis can be a very scary weapon indeed.

    People also seem to like keeping their distance from spears. Why u do dis? Mak no cents. They make no attempt of moving forwards.

    Spartans are very good in tight groups unless their line is broken. And yes they do have a line that’s usually curved with gaps but no one ever seems to go behind it. When you do get behind it you force some Spartans to have their backs turned against an enemy. They usually mostly panic, start stabbing each other and eventually die. Once it happened with no casualties on the knight side and 8 dead Spartans. They formed a phalanx and we knights found them. One ninja came up behind them and booped one of the Spartans with his stick and all 8 of them turned around fearing it was 8 ninja coming up from behind. The Spartans killed the lone ninja but from that moment they were fucked. In the process they caused a lot of damage to themselves answer in a blob around the dead ninja with their backs turned. The Spartans barely fought back. Knights, samurai and Vikings are also good in group combat. Spartans need to be almost shops to shoulder while the other classes can be in any lose formation they fancy. It all sounds weird and hard organise but you only need one of you to get behind the Spartans to start dealing some serious damage to them.



  • @lemonater47:

    They never use the falcata because the xiphos and kopis are better really. The falcata deals the damage and people usually have problems in pushing right click in DW for some reason. But against any good player the xiphos is much better. And the kopis can be a very scary weapon indeed.

    People also seem to like keeping their distance from spears. Why u do dis? Mak no cents. They make no attempt of moving forwards.

    Spartans are very good in tight groups unless their line is broken. And yes they do have a line that’s usually curved with gaps but no one ever seems to go behind it. When you do get behind it you force some Spartans to have their backs turned against an enemy. They usually mostly panic, start stabbing each other and eventually die. Once it happened with no casualties on the knight side and 8 dead Spartans. They formed a phalanx and we knights found them. One ninja came up behind them and booped one of the Spartans with his stick and all 8 of them turned around fearing it was 8 ninja coming up from behind. The Spartans killed the lone ninja but from that moment they were fucked. In the process they caused a lot of damage to themselves answer in a blob around the dead ninja with their backs turned. The Spartans barely fought back. Knights, samurai and Vikings are also good in group combat. Spartans need to be almost shops to shoulder while the other classes can be in any lose formation they fancy. It all sounds weird and hard organise but you only need one of you to get behind the Spartans to start dealing some serious damage to them.

    +1

    Although Spartans are good enough for a 1vs1 they really shine in groups with cordanated teamwork, in contrast to other classes like viking and samurai (which actually don’t want to be super close to each other due to lmb reach) it simply takes more effort to do well as a team of Spartans compared to the other classes.



  • I had to make an account just to reply to this. My main concern is with the spartan dory throw killing pirates and ninjas in 1 hit and being unblockable. In game when it is mentioned people always agree, and there are usually 1 or 2 SPARTANS defending it with crap like “shut up you get a gun” and “you just suck” even when I’m a pirate with more kills and less deaths than them. Saying that pirates get a gun is a ridiculous argument. Does the gun 1 hit kill with shots to the body? No. And it takes so long to reload you basically get one shot before switching to sword, and a pirate vs. a skilled spartan in melee is a whole other story. Also what about ninja? The roll? Cmon now, you can be hit mid roll so it’s honestly pretty useless at times.



  • @lemonater47:

    They never use the falcata because the xiphos and kopis are better really. The falcata deals the damage and people usually have problems in pushing right click in DW for some reason. But against any good player the xiphos is much better. And the kopis can be a very scary weapon indeed.

    People also seem to like keeping their distance from spears. Why u do dis? Mak no cents. They make no attempt of moving forwards.

    Spartans are very good in tight groups unless their line is broken. And yes they do have a line that’s usually curved with gaps but no one ever seems to go behind it. When you do get behind it you force some Spartans to have their backs turned against an enemy. They usually mostly panic, start stabbing each other and eventually die. Once it happened with no casualties on the knight side and 8 dead Spartans. They formed a phalanx and we knights found them. One ninja came up behind them and booped one of the Spartans with his stick and all 8 of them turned around fearing it was 8 ninja coming up from behind. The Spartans killed the lone ninja but from that moment they were fucked. In the process they caused a lot of damage to themselves answer in a blob around the dead ninja with their backs turned. The Spartans barely fought back. Knights, samurai and Vikings are also good in group combat. Spartans need to be almost shops to shoulder while the other classes can be in any lose formation they fancy. It all sounds weird and hard organise but you only need one of you to get behind the Spartans to start dealing some serious damage to them.

    I have no issue blocking the falcata if it’s just one guy, the issue comes when there’s three guys who just bought the game and have been given the power of a two handed sword with the one-handed piece of crap. Past a certain point, the xiphos definitely shines, just due to the less wonky swings and the better maneuverability, but I really don’t think it’s acceptable for any one-hander to deal as much damage as the falcata currently does, with it’s current speed. It doesn’t need a huge nerf, but it’s amazingly annoying to have someone be able to pick up the game and instantly at least be decent in group fights while completely ignoring the class’ intended purpose. Who needs a spear when you can get two falcatas going full lmb/shield bash?

    I also know full-well the ease with which you can take out a spartan column if you flank them, but the issues start to crop up when your team is just as un/organized as the Spartans, which is entirely possible. Given that their whole job is to work together well, I don’t really see an issue with this, as much as the jav spam can get irritating. I was more commenting on the oddity that the two most skilled players I know of both main Spartan, and that I’m unsure of whether this is sheer coincidence, or because the Spartan has some kind of unseen potential that I’m just not recognizing outside of team fights.



  • @Clockdish:

    I had to make an account just to reply to this. My main concern is with the spartan dory throw killing pirates and ninjas in 1 hit and being unblockable. In game when it is mentioned people always agree, and there are usually 1 or 2 SPARTANS defending it with crap like “shut up you get a gun” and “you just suck” even when I’m a pirate with more kills and less deaths than them. Saying that pirates get a gun is a ridiculous argument. Does the gun 1 hit kill with shots to the body? No. And it takes so long to reload you basically get one shot before switching to sword, and a pirate vs. a skilled spartan in melee is a whole other story. Also what about ninja? The roll? Cmon now, you can be hit mid roll so it’s honestly pretty useless at times.

    The spear toss is definitely irritating, but given that the pirate and ninja both have pajamas for armor, I don’t see too much of an issue with it. What I do want is for the damage to scale with the range, since in it’s current iteration, the spear does the same damage having flown ten-fifteen feet as it does having just left the hand, which is kind of OP. It’s amazingly easy to just walk to an unshielded opponent and just spear toss insta-gib him with no chance for him to react. The Spartan should still be able to deal decent damage at range, lest they become pirate food with their crap shields, but I think a damage reduction at point-blank is necessary for the sake of avoiding spear toss spam, which is pretty devastating to anyone without a shield.

    The onehit with pirates and ninjas is honestly debatable. The pirate is supposed to be terribly squishy, and at the range the spear is effective at, the pirate already isn’t doing so hot for letting the spartan get that close. At the risk of sounding like an ass, I don’t know how much you could really lower the likelihood of the Pirate getting skewered even by a reduced damage point-blank spear toss without adding to it’s already effective short range arsenal. I don’t play ninja enough to really speak to any kind of skill, but I don’t generally have issues with dodging spear tosses, provided you time it right. I don’t have much of an opinion on it either way, but it’s kinda tough to balance this without totally skewing the balance in favor of the already melee-strong ninja (dem claws) or the pirate whose shotgun tears spartan shields to bits.


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