Stab Feints



  • So recently I’ve noticed that I can read mid range feints from any weapon and even facehug feints from OHs or slashes if they aren’t accelerating it, but the one poison that ruins it all are stab feints. The only reason accelerated OH feints are unreadable is because the swing hits right after windup. You have no time to react to it, but with OH feints that are not accelerated OHs you can last second parry them half way through to release and you can see whether or not he will feint. I think that unreadable feints should only be able to be used when you let the opponent put themselves in the position to use unreadable feints i.e. as punishment for letting the enemy achieve the initiative of the fight, allowing him to safely facehug you.

    But the issue with stabs is that from mid range, when feints are supposed to be readable, they hit right after windup even from mid range, or at least too quickly after windup; this is an issue because it gives weapons with very long stabs the ability to effectively and unreadably feint from much further away than weapons that don’t. This allows weapons with long stabs to achieve the initiative and comfortably use more unreadable feints, much more easily than other weapons can and when you combine this with the very long stabs that also deal good damage, it’s all too rewarding. Having a good stab, such as on swords, polearms and spears, gives the weapons just an absolutely insane advantage over weapons that don’t have good stabs and I think this is a balance issue.

    Yeah it is a minor balance issue, but with the way the game has been going for the better recently I think it’s a good idea to discuss everything to let TBS consider changing anything that we think is wrong. For my solution I think that the no feint window for stabs should be 300 milliseconds instead of 200 milliseconds as it is for OHs and slashes, but 250 milliseconds for dagger feints because 300 milliseconds would make broad dagger stabs impossible to feint. I know many, if not all, of you might say your “fine” with them as they are now, but I would still like all of you to consider this for the greater good of the game. Would it be better for the game to have stab feints more readable from mid range? Discuss in the comments below.

    EDIT: And who here has never been annoyed by SoW stab feints before? If not, you have motherfucking nerves of steel.



  • Read facehug double longsword stabfeint in scrim yesterday, nope, not op and very readable just practice it mate



  • wall of text T_T

    alright boys, im going in… tell my loved ones if i don’t make it.

    EDIT:
    k i honestly tried, but i couldn’t hold any of the information in, even reading slowly.



  • I wrote an elaborate response earlier, but it basically just boiled down to “get good”. :P

    In all seriousness tough, even if you find stab feints extremely hard to read (like I do) you can seize control of combat anyway and overcome those without just passively trying to read the feints.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    wall of text T_T

    alright boys, im going in… tell my loved ones if i don’t make it.

    EDIT:
    k i honestly tried, but i couldn’t hold any of the information in, even reading slowly.

    I made it as far as the first bold word before my eyes crossed.



  • plz, get gud, lower your graphic settings, increase your FPS get a monitor with higher Hz and use higher FOV.



  • I don’t have issues with it. I’m used to people trying to drag a polearm stab around my parry, so I always wait for the grunt right after. If they get into my zone, I’ll attempt a hittrade. If they feint, I get a hit and initiative. If they FtP, then it’s the riposte game or we reset.

    And if I goof and I parry their stab feint…well, I can try to matrix to victory.



  • I all ready know how to deal with them and I never said I couldn’t guys. I’m just saying I think the game would be a lot more balanced if stab feints were easier to read. I mean, I just want stab feints to be as readable as OHs and slashes because it only makes sense that they should be in my opinion. Of course my point is countered by, “git gud,” but I think think you guys should actually acknowledge my points. Also, I don’t understand the reason why you guys can’t respond to me and can’t read the OP. I can read and understand it perfectly fine.



  • @Xylvion:

    plz, get gud, lower your graphic settings, increase your FPS get a monitor with higher Hz and use higher FOV.

    This essentially sums it up. I’m not sure you’re being serious or not though, but to read the best feints from close range, you need to play at extremely high field of views, have a high refresh rate monitor, and ideally reduce the graphics down so there is less superfluous stimuli, and of course a low latency.

    It makes me laugh / cry inside a bit that some players consider that a fair and sensible way to defend against a one-button easy as pie mechanic.



  • the best feint readers EU play on 120 fov tho, and sophax even plays with 60 hz! the more you know!



  • That would need a change in the animation such that you can clearly distinguish between windup and release. I disagree with stab feints being unreadable but they are easier to perform and harder to read because of the way the stab works (reverse overhead feints are similar but much higher risk).

    Because of this I do like the basic idea of slightly decreasing the feint window for stabs just to make stab feints as readable as strike feints. They are not unreadabale and not OP but they are somewhat harder to read which gives the stab attack more power compared to strikes. I don’t know if thats really a good thing as stabs already got some other advantages (more reach, harder to parry etc.).

    So it might be worth thinking about increasing the unfeintable window for stabs (0.3s seconds seem a little long though). Just to lower the impact of a good stab attack.

    Also I would love it if the OP wasn’t such a wall of text but had some paragraphs. I believe more people would read it then.



  • @The:

    This essentially sums it up. I’m not sure you’re being serious or not though, but to read the best feints from close range, you need to play at extremely high field of views, have a high refresh rate monitor, and ideally reduce the graphics down so there is less superfluous stimuli, and of course a low latency.

    It makes me laugh / cry inside a bit that some players consider that a fair and sensible way to defend against a one-button easy as pie mechanic.

    You guys misunderstand. I’m not complaining because I can’t defend against them. This is just an observation I made and I think it would be reasonable and overall more balanced if stab feints were equally as readable as OH and slash feints. Again, I can deal with them just fine but that is beside the point. Also, sorry for being a complete and utter computer noob, but how do I reduce my graphic settings down below the minimum it allows in-game(or can you?), and how do I make my chiv go over 62 frames? And btw I play with 140 fov and it was the best decision I ever made in this game other than maining the Maul back in the good 'ol days.



  • @Evil:

    That would need a change in the animation such that you can clearly distinguish between windup and release. I disagree with stab feints being unreadable but they are easier to perform and harder to read because of the way the stab works (reverse overhead feints are similar but much higher risk).

    Yeah I wouldn’t bother calling for more animation changes, too much of a hassle.

    Because of this I do like the basic idea of slightly decreasing the feint window for stabs just to make stab feints as readable as strike feints. They are not unreadabale and not OP but they are somewhat harder to read which gives the stab attack more power compared to strikes. I don’t know if thats really a good thing as stabs already got some other advantages (more reach, harder to parry etc.).

    Yeah, it was a very poor word choice of mine to say, “unreadable,” my bad.

    So it might be worth thinking about increasing the unfeintable window for stabs (0.3s seconds seem a little long though). Just to lower the impact of a good stab attack.

    Agreed, and .3 was honestly a number I pulled outta my ass because I’m not entire sure how long it should be. It would require testing in the end.

    Also I would love it if the OP wasn’t such a wall of text but had some paragraphs. I believe more people would read it then.

    Well I didn’t divide it up because I didn’t think it was TOO long… Fuckin circumstantial and tangential speed, sorry guys.

    EDIT: Lol just realized that Radiant gave me paragraphs, thanks xD



  • @Nohbdy111:

    You guys misunderstand. I’m not complaining because I can’t defend against them. This is just an observation I made and I think it would be reasonable and overall more balanced if stab feints were equally as readable as OH and slash feints. Again, I can deal with them just fine but that is beside the point. Also, sorry for being a complete and utter computer noob, but how do I reduce my graphic settings down below the minimum it allows in-game(or can you?), and how do I make my chiv go over 62 frames? And btw I play with 140 fov and it was the best decision I ever made in this game other than maining the Maul back in the good 'ol days.

    Yes, 140 gives you a unique advantage against feints. The tradeoff at least initially is that judging range is harder, but overtime that isn’t too big an issue. The advantages seem to outweigh the disadvantages, that is, unless you’re the type who wants to feel like they’re playing an actual game, not mutilating a virtual corpse.

    As for graphics, you can turn them lower in the UDKsettings file in Chivalry. I think there’s a different file you edit to disable the 62 fps lockout. I believe 120 fps is the maximum you can display in the unreal 3 engine.



  • This “fov 140 ez” thing is just opinion. The best feint readers in EU play on 120 fov. Stop making it sound like its fact.



  • @CRUSHED:

    This “fov 140 ez” thing is just opinion. The best feint readers in EU play on 120 fov. Stop making it sound like its fact.

    I still used to read feints well back when I used 120 as well, but the point is that 140 does make it easier. Not east, but easier.



  • Also i dont understand why you want to dumb the game down Nohb’dy. For what reason? I dont think it would be more balanced to lower the stab feint window

    the feint window is already tiny enough, can barely FTP. On weapons like norse or hws it would be impossible to stab feint with a lower window

    I just ask myself, why? I believe that some OH feints are way harder to read then stab feints, like longsword OH feints properly executed



  • @CRUSHED:

    Also i dont think why you want to dumb the game down Nohb’dy. For what reason? I dont think it would be more balanced to lower the stab feint window

    I don’t want to dumb it down :/

    the feint window is already tiny enough, can barely FTP. On weapons like norse or hws it would be impossible to stab feint with a lower window

    So hopefully TBS increases the defensive feint window as they should. We’ve over this before.

    I just ask myself, why? I believe that some OH feints are way harder to read then stab feints, like longsword OH feints properly executed

    A proper lookdown OH feint can be as hard to read as stab feints, but not harder to read. Yes, they do hit faster than stabs because of the faster windup, but they aren’t harder to read because they have a smaller feint window. Also, stab feints are very difficult to read from much further away that we’ll executed OH feints and that is also part of the problem.



  • feints from further away arent a problem, stab or oh

    infact, feints are fine as they are, IMO

    stamina is already a waaay too deciding factor in duels, lets not make it even more deciding by making stabfeints piss easy to read



  • I didnt expect feint whine thread from you Nohbdy.

    @CRUSHED:

    Do that at 120 fov or below, and then we can talk. When you play a game in a state that resembles a disheveled corpse in order to defend against the simplest mechanic in the game, you lose all sense of sanity left. Anything to win, right?

    Sigh.

    Radiant why don’t you reply to people instead of editing their own posts?

    @CRUSHED:

    the best feint readers EU play on 120 fov tho, and sophax even plays with 60 hz! the more you know!

    Darenger is playing 60fps/hz as well.


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