Leveling: Cosmetic only vs improved equipment etc.



  • To start, I’ve always felt a bit quirky in game where you get better equipment in the leveling process, such as Battlefield: Bad Company 2, where you start without any perks at all, and only get magnum ammo/body armor (basically a 1.25x effectiveness modifier) at lvl 15/16.

    So my question is: Will CBA have a leveling system with actual combat-usable items etc. as level rewards or purely cosmetic options such as a coloured sword?
    I’d vouch heavily for having all combat equipment available right from the start. As a newbie player, you already have a big disadvantage in now knowing the gameplay/maps, and not having any effective equipment yet outright sucks. Good examples of a get-combat-equipment-by-grinding gameplay experience is the Battlefield Nations GTA: San Andreas multiplayer server (http://www.bfsamp.com). It’s domination-style based gameplay and you unlock better gear/vehicles as you go along. It quite sucks to be mowed down by an attack helicopter, knowing that they’re right there for you to grab, but you need to grind for 3 more weeks in order to be able to use them.

    Basically, please make
    Total in-game time != combat effectiveness
    Skill = combat effectiveness
    Total in-game time = cosmetic options, achievements, etc.


  • Developer

    This is something we are very interested in hearing from the community on. We may run a poll on the subject, but I’d love to gather some qualitative data (opinions and discussion) on the topic before looking to the hard numbers. What do you guys think on this? Should there be functional unlocks in the form of new weapons (not necessarily upgrades or better overall weapons, just more gameplay variations) or should all weapons be available from the start and only allow for cosmetic unlocks?



  • I know exactly where your coming from. I play bad company 2 all the time (lvl 50 now). but when i first started i hated it because i was at such a disadvantage. Although, the fact that there were unlocks made me come back to it everyday. I think unlocks are necessary because people love working towards things. I think unlocks and new weapons should be unlocked because the game will have a much longer life span especially if there are ranks. For some reason people love ranking up. SO ADD RANKS :)))



  • JustPlainGoat: Won’t tanks/achievements/silly unlockable hats also do the trick for the grinders?
    If you really want to have your hundreds of gaming hours be justified by some kind of reward that you should go play WoW :V

    I can’t see any real reason to make additional combat styles unlockable other than that other games already use that system. Would it really add more than it would substract? I doubt there will be people deciding not to purchase the game because you can already fight like a man at level 1.

    If additional combat styles were unlockable instead of immediately available, you’d also have to decide when and where people will get them and which styles counter which. If there’s a playstyle available to high level players that is a counter to the low level playstyle, won’t this lead to massive frustration? These kinds of problems will have to be dealt with if you choose the unlocking system. Cosmetic unlocks don’t have anything to do with the game balancing, however, and should be (relatively) easy to implement.



  • I personally think unlockables should only be things to look at…

    And they wont effect gameplay.



  • dragonfury, no one’s talking about combat styles that’s up to the player to develop. The only way I think unlocks would work would be if it was either only cosmetic, or if you had a weapon that complimented a certain type of fighting style, but gave the player a weakness. Such as they could hit hard, but move slower, or they swing faster but take more damage from a certain type of weapon. But if those weapons are added there should be few that you unlock. I do like the way tf2 made their weapon system, how you could “find” weapons while playing, so EVERYONE, no matter at what level, could find and use the same weapons.



  • I agree with dragonfury, though I could stand it if there are unlocks that aren’t purely cosmetical but aren’t just clear upgrades either. Still, cosmetical-only is much preferred. About ranking system: an absolute no on that one. I may post a long rant on that as well, when I’m somewhat less tired than I am now. Only if it seems necessary though. It seems that the majority of the community isn’t all that enthusiastic about it right now, so there’s not really any reason to make a point out of it.



  • @dragonfury:

    JustPlainGoat: Won’t tanks/achievements/silly unlockable hats also do the trick for the grinders?
    If you really want to have your hundreds of gaming hours be justified by some kind of reward that you should go play WoW :V

    I can’t see any real reason to make additional combat styles unlockable other than that other games already use that system. Would it really add more than it would substract? I doubt there will be people deciding not to purchase the game because you can already fight like a man at level 1.

    If additional combat styles were unlockable instead of immediately available, you’d also have to decide when and where people will get them and which styles counter which. If there’s a playstyle available to high level players that is a counter to the low level playstyle, won’t this lead to massive frustration? These kinds of problems will have to be dealt with if you choose the unlocking system. Cosmetic unlocks don’t have anything to do with the game balancing, however, and should be (relatively) easy to implement.

    No i dont think there should be unlocks where they give players that have been playing longer advantages. I think there should be new weapons to unlock to get people to come back for more and more



  • I will say it the nerdy gamer way…

    Ranking system is so fucking gay plox dont put it…



  • My sentiments on this entire topic echo Slash’s, and I applaud him for using the phrase ‘so fucking gay’ for me. I would hate to insult the fucking gay community, myself.


  • Developer

    Can you guys clarify what you mean by ranking system, do you mean a ranking of players versus other players globally, or a ranking system as in experience that you gain towards unlocks?



  • I assumed they were talking about a global ranking of players. Which is, in my opinion, the embodiment of unhealthy competitiveness.



  • Btw if you’re going to do stats then I’d prefer fluidity > stats. To clarify what I mean: Battlefield Bad Company 2 has had problems with people’s requests for their stats timing out due to stats server overload and thus having to play without their unlocks. I’d go for basic kills/deaths/score/ K/D /Score per minute/Kills per minute/Favourite class/Playstyle (player specified) and the achievement tracking. Yes, knowing how many broadsword backstabs I have is neat, but not at the cost of performance :P.

    Also for global leaderboards: Only when they’re hack/boostproof and they only list score per minute of objectives taken per minute IMHO. The last thing you’d want is K/D whores or boosters.



  • @Mike:

    My sentiments on this entire topic echo Slash’s, and I applaud him for using the phrase ‘so fucking gay’ for me. I would hate to insult the fucking gay community, myself.

    Your lame Honcho. Im gonna wrap you in bubble wrap and ship you to my room where i can take advantage of you and feel your strong strong muscles that i have been waiting to see for so very long.



  • @Tibberius:

    Can you guys clarify what you mean by ranking system, do you mean a ranking of players versus other players globally, or a ranking system as in experience that you gain towards unlocks?

    I think there should be both to be honest. People love having ranks and things to work towards. The gaining ranks can give you random stuff: Weapons, customization, etc. Nothing that gives players advantages. And the global rank is cool but only if there is a way around boosters and fuckers like that



  • Alright, but you had better ship me FedEx. Or at the very least, USPS First-Class. But if you try to stuff me into the back of one of those DHL vans, there’ll be hell to pay.

    On the topic at hand, I’m for cosmetic-only unlocks, and the idea of a global leaderboard doesn’t appeal to me. Additionally, Goat may be for the rankings now, but I’ve seen how hard it is emotionally for him to be anything lower than #1. Hell, he didn’t sleep for 3 nights after he lost the top spot on the KoTrT board. So if not for my sake, withhold that feature for Goat. Come on, do it for the kids.



  • Rank is just a measure of who has the most play time more often than not. Also, lets not aid in the addition of size to anyone’s e-peen… I am all for stat summaries though, pretty much what you can currently see in your AoC profile. Just so people can know their personal bests and maybe see their progress to certain achievements.



  • For the devs: If you want to see the absolutely worst example ever that I know of of ranking check the Battlefield Nations server on Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas (multiplayer mod SA:MP) (http://www.bfsamp.com).

    I’m not even going to detailedly describe how unbalanced their server is. It’s worse than CoD:MW2. Basically, there, rank (Grinding time) equals power. Rank is gained by doing boring objectives ENDLESSLY(Getting flags in the middle of nowhere while trying to avoid getting raped by that big attack heli the high rank guys only have access to)

    I basically got raged on and puked out of there for making the suggestion to balance the server.The though of the overpoweredness the high level players (Who mostly make up the forums) being lost was too much for them to handle.



  • The skilled players due to practise will be the higher ranks, it makes absolutely no sense to then give them stupid bonuses with which to do all sorts of nasty things to average Joe who just joined.
    Cosmetic is the way forward, they can still see you are bad-ass, and the epic score is from your skill not some stupid perk.

    I would suggest you scrap levels completely as well, instead why not do upgrades based on weapons class, for instance as the kills you get with one handed swords go up, you unlock a cooler looking one handed sword, then another etc. I would also suggest you give players all the swords they can unlock, and allow them to spend the points on any sword they want, instead of just unlocking them automatically each level. Therefore if your favourite sword isn’t the last one you unlock you can use it without worrying about showing off your skills.



  • @Biteme:

    The skilled players due to practise will be the higher ranks, it makes absolutely no sense to then give them stupid bonuses with which to do all sorts of nasty things to average Joe who just joined.
    Cosmetic is the way forward, they can still see you are bad-ass, and the epic score is from your skill not some stupid perk.

    I would suggest you scrap levels completely as well, instead why not do upgrades based on weapons class, for instance as the kills you get with one handed swords go up, you unlock a cooler looking one handed sword, then another etc. I would also suggest you give players all the swords they can unlock, and allow them to spend the points on any sword they want, instead of just unlocking them automatically each level. Therefore if your favourite sword isn’t the last one you unlock you can use it without worrying about showing off your skills.

    Just my thought. There’s no argument against cosmetic unlocks (besides the devs having to put work into them:P) and weapon/armor upgrades (we’re talking about both here right?not just weapons?) are just annoying to new players and the older ones won’t notice them anymore when everybody has them. Tbh I see nothing positive about armor/weapon upgrades besides keeping people addicted who like to collect stuff….but this belongs to (mmo)rpgs imho.


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