Leveling: Cosmetic only vs improved equipment etc.



  • @Arch3r:

    I think having improved combat equipment that you have to unlock by playing adds a goal for the players, much more than purely cosmetic stuff. As long as the unlocked gear does not give the user such an advantage that it’s ‘gear > skill’ or anything close to that it might add a nice gameplay element.

    The unlockable combat equipment could be stuff that’s fairly easy to get, while the cosmetic unlocks take way longer to unlock. That way you can keep unlocking stuff, even after playing a long time, but you don’t continuously unlock more and more powerful equipment.

    After all veteran players will have more skill in general than newer players, and if they have twice as powerful equipment as well, it severely unbalances things and ruins gameplay.

    So, lets say you play crusader and your main weapons is a flamberge.

    Your flamberge kills enemies in 2 hits.

    Adding, lets say, a 10% damage bonus would make it… kill enemies in 2 hits. So its basically the same sword.

    But adding a 100% damage bonus would make it kill enemies in 1 hit, severely unbalancing things and ruining gameplay.



  • @Andrew:

    Chivalry: Medival Fortress 2

    Let us name our weapons, TBS!



  • @Wingy:

    @Arch3r:

    I think having improved combat equipment that you have to unlock by playing adds a goal for the players, much more than purely cosmetic stuff. As long as the unlocked gear does not give the user such an advantage that it’s ‘gear > skill’ or anything close to that it might add a nice gameplay element.

    The unlockable combat equipment could be stuff that’s fairly easy to get, while the cosmetic unlocks take way longer to unlock. That way you can keep unlocking stuff, even after playing a long time, but you don’t continuously unlock more and more powerful equipment.

    After all veteran players will have more skill in general than newer players, and if they have twice as powerful equipment as well, it severely unbalances things and ruins gameplay.

    So, lets say you play crusader and your main weapons is a flamberge.

    Your flamberge kills enemies in 2 hits.

    Adding, lets say, a 10% damage bonus would make it… kill enemies in 2 hits. So its basically the same sword.

    But adding a 100% damage bonus would make it kill enemies in 1 hit, severely unbalancing things and ruining gameplay.

    Better example: Let’s say you can get weapon variations that have 10% increased damage but 20% slower swings. Seems like a tradeoff, right? Some people prefer fast swinging weapons, some people prefer higher damage weapons.

    Now let’s say Class A and Class B are balanced around Class A killing Class B in 3 hits, and Class B killing Class A in 2 hits.
    When Class A hits Class B twice, it leaves him at very low health.
    When Class B hits Class A once, it leaves him at half health.
    If Class A uses the +10% damage -20% slower swings weapon, he suddenly only needs 2 hits to kill Class B.
    If Class B uses the +10% damage -20% slower swings weapon, he still needs 2 hits to kill Class B, but now he gets those 2 hits in slower.

    That’s why even “slight variation” weapons are pointless and hard to balance in a game like Chivalry where every class is balanced against every other class based on damage and speed and every other stat. The developers have always wanted to make “counter” classes as soft as possible, so that one weapon doesn’t have a big edge against any other weapon, and at best has only a minor advantage in some situations.



  • @SlyGoat:

    “counter” classes as soft as possible

    Yeah, this is the point, very soft counters is the way to go with chivalry (and just because having no counters seems impossible from a realistic point of view)



  • @dragonfury:

    @Arch3r:

    After all veteran players will have more skill in general than newer players, and if they have twice as powerful equipment as well, it severely unbalances things and ruins gameplay.

    And yet you propose giving them better equipment? One percent upgrade or twice as powerful equipment, it doesn’t matter, getting better equipment over time in a game where people of all “levels” play together = shit.

    Wait what? No I didn’t. I’ve been very clear about not giving veterans more advantage over new players than they already have. I was simply talking about awarding playing the game with unlockables. It’s proven concept, it keeps players playing.

    Also I think counters do add teamwork elements. If all classes are basically the same, just with a different look, classes would not hold meaning. When classes are very different, there probably will automatically be some kind of counter system. Archers beat Two-handed weapon users. Fast moving infantry with shields would counter ranged troops. And I think nothing is wrong with that.

    Classes should be varied or the gameplay will get boring easily, I predict.

    Also: The unlockable gear could be weapons very different from the standard weapons, but they do not have to be better. Some sort of ‘shame’ weapon, although lame, can be something for the veteran players to make fun of. Like a competition between Veterans who gets the most kills with the simple wooden stick on a public server.
    It adds to gameplay.



  • @Arch3r:

    @dragonfury:

    @Arch3r:

    After all veteran players will have more skill in general than newer players, and if they have twice as powerful equipment as well, it severely unbalances things and ruins gameplay.

    And yet you propose giving them better equipment? One percent upgrade or twice as powerful equipment, it doesn’t matter, getting better equipment over time in a game where people of all “levels” play together = shit.

    Wait what? No I didn’t. I’ve been very clear about not giving veterans more advantage over new players than they already have. I was simply talking about awarding playing the game with unlockables. It’s proven concept, it keeps players playing.

    Also I think counters do add teamwork elements. If all classes are basically the same, just with a different look, classes would not hold meaning. When classes are very different, there probably will automatically be some kind of counter system. Archers beat Two-handed weapon users. Fast moving infantry with shields would counter ranged troops. And I think nothing is wrong with that.

    Classes should be varied or the gameplay will get boring easily, I predict.

    Also: The unlockable gear could be weapons very different from the standard weapons, but they do not have to be better. Some sort of ‘shame’ weapon, although lame, can be something for the veteran players to make fun of. Like a competition between Veterans who gets the most kills with the simple wooden stick on a public server.
    It adds to gameplay.

    All classes in AoC weren’t identical, were they? They had vastly different playstyles. But there were no hard counters, every class was capable of beating every other class depending on skill (and assuming neither class was currently over/underpowered - but even then it was possible).

    An oft quoted example of a “counter” class is archers vs. heavy knights. Heavy knights are slow and don’t have access to a shield, so they’re theoretically fodder for archers, yes? But unlike other classes, the Heavy Knight’s formidable armor value (50 armor, the highest in the game) was the same for both melee and ranged damage - typically, armor against ranged damage was lower than against melee damage. So it took SIGNIFICANTLY more firepower to take down a heavy knight than any other class, and if the HK manged to close the distance on an archer in that time through smart dodging and use of terrain, he would kill them in one hit with any attack.



  • The game should be like this: “Its the enemy, CHARGE!”

    And not like this: “Its a Swordsman, CHARGE! Wait, theres a guy with a Halberd, run away and take cover!”



  • @Wingy:

    The game should be like this: “Its the enemy, CHARGE!”

    And not like this: “Its a Swordsman, CHARGE! Wait, theres a guy with a Halberd, run away and take cover!”

    This.
    .sihT



  • …I like a game where skill prevails on player’s xp/level/equipment…

    ciauz^^,
    Jab



  • Holy Necropost, Batman!

    It’s usually not a good idea to post in a thread that is older than a month…best to make a new thread, then. Just a tip.


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