A Lament to 'panic parry/block'



  • I used to use panic parry/block reasonably frequently, but not in the sense that people might think. Typically panic parry was for those who made a bad attack and had a miss, so they needed to bypass their recovery so that they could parry/block.

    My use of ‘panic parry/block’ was to attack my target and make contact, whether it be scoring a hit or being parried i didn’t care, the aim was to play more aggressively and to be able to do a flurry of blows and to open the fight rather then stare at my appointment waiting for them to give an opening first.

    By removing ‘panic parry/block’ the game is effectively saying to you “NO, you can not strike and hit your target because if you’re parried you will loose your initiative”.

    People may not agree with that statement, however, if you observe even the best players or all the high ranked players you will note that they will not make the first attack, they prefer to be passive aggressive and only react on their opponents action.

    As a result the variety of tactics in the game is reduced because people are either going to be passive or passive aggressive. There is a much less space for the assertive aggressive player. To add to the validity of this particular statement i will say observe the ‘high level’ players and see what type of weapons they’re using. None of them are using exotic more challenging weapons.

    This issue is particularly more applicable if you’re using more exotic weapons or if you’re using a shield (the problem with the shield(s)is the unreasonable shield lift and drop time and the fact that if you’re hit in the shield full damage is scored). Its a given that if your using greatsword, brandi, broadsword, norse - stuff like that, then riposte will see you through this problem.

    TBS I’d like to see a solution to this issue so that you can use assertive, aggressive, tactics with a larger variety of loadouts rather than just the OP ones :) I’m not asking for a return of panic parry, but there needs to be a solution where the UP loadouts can still be somewhat competitive rather than just there to take a passive defensive pummeling from OP loadouts.
    Cheers.



  • Your post makes no sense.
    You lost your iniative with panic parry all the same when getting parried. Being aggressive is as viable as ever definately more viable than with 1.0 flinch and panic parry.
    As for good players waiting their time and playing patient. Yeah they do that now that fucking up and missing strikes is punishable again you have to be patient and calm, manage your distance better than with panic parry. Adds just more to the skill it takes to be at the top.
    God you Aussies.



  • I feel so, so bad for you poor bastards in AUS who have to put up with players like Giantyak.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read anything so stupid on this forum.

    By removing ‘panic parry/block’ the game is effectively saying to you “NO, you can not strike and hit your target because if you’re parried you will loose your initiative”.

    I think this sentence physically shortened my life by 2 years.



  • @giantyak:

    People may not agree with that statement, however, if you observe even the best players or all the high ranked players you will note that they will not make the first attack, they prefer to be passive aggressive and only react on their opponents action.

    This just isn’t true. The best players are aggressive in most situations in order to avoid being punished by feints, to push objectives, to close in on an overextended player, etc. Getting rid of recovery parry doesn’t ruin any high level playstyles at all either. You can just CFtP.



  • @Karasu:

    This just isn’t true. The best players are aggressive in most situations in order to avoid being punished by feints, to push objectives, to close in on an overextended player, etc. Getting rid of recovery parry doesn’t ruin any high level playstyles at all either. You can just CFtP.

    No one feints down here. So what he says has some truth to it.

    I don’t actually know who giantyak is in game.



  • @lemonater47:

    No one feints down here. So what he says has some truth to it.

    I don’t actually know who giantyak is in game.

    It has no truth to it. Top players are aggressive most of the time. If players in Australia aren’t aggressive when they need to be and completely ignore an entire dimension of the game then they aren’t top players.



  • I don’t really understand what you are trying to say here. OP load outs? UP load outs? Don’t think panic parry ever benefited any particular load out. The only thing I can glean from your post is that you want to be able to throw an attack at someone with a slowish weapon and be able to get off Scott free if you miss with a panic block? That or you want to be able to hit trade and panic block as soon as you hit the recovery stage which a lot of people would do to avoid a retaliatory hit trade? I don’t know, it’s hard to glean what point you are trying to make.

    @giantyak:

    People may not agree with that statement, however, if you observe even the best players or all the high ranked players you will note that they will not make the first attack, they prefer to be passive aggressive and only react on their opponents action.

    This stood out for me however. High ranked players never wait for the first attack unless against lower ranked people simply because the opponents are predictable, even before they attack. You want them to attack you so you can respond in an attack that’s good for you.

    This doesn’t work when two high ranks are fighting however, it’s usually they both try to crush the other person with unpredictable attacks. It pays to be aggressive and unpredictable rather than being passive and waiting for attacks to come to you. This just leads to having your position exploited in the instant they see where you are.

    @everyone else

    Not all aussies/kiwi’s share this mentality. :(



  • By removing ‘panic parry/block’ the game is effectively saying to you “NO, you can not strike and hit your target because if you’re parried you will loose your initiative”

    Signature worthy quote.



  • Huh? They removed panic parry, but they re-added CFTP. Which is far superior in standard fights, due to being able to riposte off of it, whereas you could not do so on a panic parry.

    It takes a while to relearn CFTP but when you do, it’s effortless.



  • @The:

    Huh? They removed panic parry, but they re-added CFTP. Which is far superior in standard fights, due to being able to riposte off of it, whereas you could not do so on a panic parry.

    It takes a while to relearn CFTP but when you do, it’s effortless.

    Australia is like 1 year behind on meta so dont expect them to use CFTP, they’re probably still figuring out delays or alt swings.



  • @giantyak:

    By removing ‘panic parry/block’ the game is effectively saying to you “NO, you can not strike and hit your target because if you’re parried you will loose your initiative”.

    I stopped reading after that. Panic parry has nothing to do with losing the initiative after being parried. Nor does CFTP.



  • What I think could be interesting, would be if they kept both Combo Feint to Parry and Panic Parry, so that we might aswell have more defensive options, Of course Panic Parry would be a much easier parry to land, but at the cost of more stamina and no counter-attack after it, CFTP again allows you to cancel out of comboes, and parry to a counter-attack, costs a bit of stamina that too.

    And then we would have the hardest parry to time, which is the combo parry that has most reward from being successfully able to time it right.

    I mean, around Patch 2 release. There wasn’t really a big of problem with Panic parry, just that people were pissed cause CFTP was removed, don’t see what was so wrong about it either, cause you can kinda lure your opponent to do a panic parry the same way you could versus a CFTP’er by just feinting an attack, and then they will be left vulerable.

    So, why not keep Panic Parry, and have it slightly adjusted to a certain extend.

    So far we only got three ways of parrying in this game, sort of.

    Standard Parry that has no extra stamina cost, except stamina drain vs stamina negation, and can only be done when being in active/idle.

    Combo Parry, a parry that you can queue up during release, likewise as if you would prepare an attack combo, costs 5 stamina to perform and also allows riposte/counter-attack

    Combo Feint to Parry, a combination that involes doing an attack combo that you cancel to get quicker back into idle/active, and then doing a Standard Parry from there, but canceling the combo attack costs 15 stamina.

    Then we got Panic parry, a parry that is allowed to be performed during recovery, but perhaps it shouldn’t be available to be activated during the whole recovery phase, give it a EndPanicParryWindow likewise to the one added to feints in windup/combo. Give them a new animation set so that you could see if it was a panic parry or not, which may help you to calculate / assume what your opponents stamina would be like. Decrease active parry window and increase parry recovery that will leave them extra vulerable if they fail to time their panic parry. like this for example:
    Active parry window 0.5>0.35?, Parry recovery 0.5>0.75?

    Either way, I think that TB should maybe look into perhaps testing how the game will play out with both CFTP and Panic parry, always nice to have another defensive option, just that it could need some testing and be adjusted properly, least we could test this stuff in beta same way we are testing the weird 0.8 flinch for 2H’s right?



  • No panic parry please.



  • I think panic parry should be enabled when you hit someone first, with normal parry stamina cost



  • @CRUSHED:

    I think panic parry should be enabled when you hit someone first, with normal parry stamina cost

    this is only seemingly reasonable thing to wish for, i would say just reduce stamina cost for cftp’s. The fact that you have to cftp after hitting someone while someone else is attacking you because you’re in recovery and using like 1/3 of stamina to do so is kind of lame.

    i think being able to parry after hitting someone immediately would be nice addition, but in no way return the recovery parry.



  • I can’t really wrap my brain around this lament.



  • @50ShadesofClay:

    this is only seemingly reasonable thing to wish for, i would say just reduce stamina cost for cftp’s. The fact that you have to cftp after hitting someone while someone else is attacking you because you’re in recovery and using like 1/3 of stamina to do so is kind of lame.

    i think being able to parry after hitting someone immediately would be nice addition, but in no way return the recovery parry.

    I think this can be resolved a bit by generally lowering the stamina cost of parrying an attack. (Why should people be punished so much for performing the correct action?) I wouldn’t really want anything other than that. Footwork, strategy and team play should be used to mitigate the need to CFTP after every attack.

    I don’t like the idea of adding panic parry back in any way. Confusing inconsistencies are all I see with a change that crushed suggested. The system makes sense right now, and I don’t see a good reason to change it.



  • i dont want to combo everytime i kill someone



  • @CRUSHED:

    i dont want to combo everytime i kill someone

    Nobody be forcin you to combo yo.



  • @Sophax:

    Nobody be forcin you to combo yo.

    but then im locked out from parry for like 1 second shieeeeeeeeet


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