Community Weapon Rankings: Vanguard



  • 1 is having a very small niche but the weapon is all most all ways more trouble than it’s worth

    2 meaning that the weapon is mostly competent in competitive play, but it could use a slight buff to make it as competent as other (balanced)weapons

    3 being 100% balanced, having clear and sufficient drawbacks to counteract it’s equally clear and significant benefits

    4 is for weapons that have clear, significant benefits and an insufficient amount of drawbacks to counteract all of them. This amount of diverse strengths are enough to make most other (balanced)weapons seem too niche to use at times

    5 is for weapons of which their significant benefits completely outweigh their drawbacks, if they have any at all.

    Feel free to use 2.5s, 3.5s, etc. if you are indecisive of an exact rank. I’ll do mine.

    Greatsword: 4.5
    The Greatsword has many benefits such as having above average damage, great speed, excellent reach(that’s also increased by the Vanguard’s good run speed), and amazing draggability. It’s has an absurdly good combination of speed and reach, meaning it all most all ways guarantees the first hit and the great speed also makes it substantially easier to maintain the initiative once you’ve achieved it and to recover it once you’ve lost it. Its “drawbacks” are also extremely scarce. A very long stab windup in conjunction with it’s very long stab release can oftentimes seems to be more beneficial than hindering because it gives you a ridiculous amount of time to delay your stab drags and it gives you much more time to use body feints to make your stab drags much harder to read as well. Finally, when you look at its damage, you hope to find a clear and sufficient drawback, but you just don’t. It three hit kills Knights to the body, 2 hit kills Vanguards, Archers, and MaA to the body, and it can also one shot Archers with an OH to the head. This isn’t particularly good damage, but it’s definitely a bit above average and the main point is that it is in no way a drawback. Of course Vanguard weapons are supposed to be much longer, which it is, so at least you can sort of factor that attribute out when determining the “balance” of the Greatsword. I wrote a long paragraph on this one because I know we have some strict and biased Greatsword lovers on this thread. Significantly nerf the Greatsword’s speed and it will be balanced.

    Claymore: 3
    Basically a faster, weaker Sword of War when you factor out its reach advantage because it’s supposed to be longer, being a Vanguard weapon; however, I do think that it should be reworked because its animations combined with its very fast speed tend to desync a lot, so I think we should simply revert the Claymore to what it was pre-July patch and just nerf the Greatsword so it’ll be balanced still.

    Zweihander: 3
    Ahhh, the most powerful, badass sword in the game. The Zweihander is probably one of the best anti-light class melee weapons in the game. It has a ton of cutting damage, allowing it to be one of the only melee weapons capable of one shotting MaA, but compared to the Maul it’s slightly faster, has an amazing stab, and is longer by a ridiculous amount and compared to the Bardiche it’s longer, has a better stab, is much more draggable, but is slower. Definitely a very balanced weapon.

    Spear: 3
    The jack of all trades support weapon. It has decent damage and the longest reach in the game. It’s very flexible in any given situation because it has very long, slow, and decently powerful thrust for long to mid range. It has a very fast, decently long, weak, interrupting “GTFO of my face!” slash, and a stab that’s a middle ground between the two. It has all of these incredible benefits for essentially being the second slowest melee weapon in the game because of its inability to combo, which in affect means it has incredibly long combo times.

    Fork: 3
    I have the same to say about this one as the Spear except it is much faster, weaker and shorter.

    Brandistock: 4.5
    I would say it’s a 3 and essentially for the same reason as the Spear, but it has a significant issue in its slash damage. The Brandistock’s slash has the exact same functionality as the Spear and Fork’s slash, but the reason it’s so OP in comparison to the other slashes is because of its damage. The other weapons’ slashes are used as a very fast, but very weak interrupter to be used when you need to prevent the enemy from hitting you because you let him into close range and his weapon is faster than your other attacks can hit hi, essentially letting you “combo” without the enemy just attacking and flinching your “combo”. The Brandistock’s slash, however, is not very weak. When you use the slash in conjunction with your other attacks with the other spears, it all most all ways increases your hits to kill on the enemy as a downside, but with the Brandistock slash it does so much damage that it doesn’t even lower your hits to kill, so it kills essentially kills faster than any other of the spears. So compared to the Spear itself, it has a significantly better hit to kill, is marginally slower, and is a little bit shorter. Yes, it has downsides, but it’s amazing benefits all most completely outweigh its downsides.

    Bardiche: 3
    The Bardiche is a good anti-light class weapon. It has decent damage, decent speed, and good reach although it’s reach is relatively sub-par for a Vanguard weapon. However its stab damage is terrible. Its stab is fast and its longest attack, but it doesn’t seem fast enough to make up for its damage. I rate this weapon a 2, but as of now, the bug known as handle hits makes it somewhat broken, thus I increased its ranking by 1.

    Billhook: 4
    It has decent speed, average damage, and good reach. A perfect all around Vanguard weapon. I rate this weapon a 3, but as of now, the bug known as handle hits makes it somewhat broken, thus I increased its ranking by 1

    Halberd: 4
    It’s a slower, longer Billhook. **I rate this weapon a 3, but as of now, the bug known as handle hits makes it somewhat broken, thus I increased its ranking by 1
    **
    Polehammer: 4
    It’s a much slower, much more powerful Billhook. I rate this weapon a 3, but as of now, the bug known as handle hits makes it somewhat broken, thus I increased its ranking by 1



  • Considering handle hits have existed from the beginning of the game, ignoring them is a bit silly. It doesn’t seem likely they will be fixed. Factoring in those, I’d say it raises them up a few points. Most assuredly so in duels.



  • @The:

    Considering handle hits have existed from the beginning of the game, ignoring them is a bit silly. It doesn’t seem likely they will be fixed. Factoring in those, I’d say it raises them up a few points. Most assuredly so in duels.

    Yeah, but I don’t like including it because it’s not intended and isn’t supposed to be a factor when determining balance. I think I’ll just raise all the pole arms by 1 point despite how much I think handle hits should be taken into account.



  • Greatsword Duel: 4.5
    Teamplay: 4.4

    Claymore Duel: 3.3
    Teamplay: 3.2

    Zweihander Duel: 3.3
    Teamplay: 3.2

    Spear Duel: 2.5
    Teamplay: 3

    Fork Duel: 2.3
    Teamplay: 2

    Brandistock Duel: 3.5
    Teamplay: 3.75

    Bardiche Duel: 3
    Teamplay: 2.75

    Billhook Duel: 3.1
    Teamplay: 3

    Halberd Duel: 3.6
    Teamplay: 4

    Polehammer Duel: 3.5
    Teamplay: 3.1

    In the works



  • You really think the Greatsword is actually better than the Brandistock?



  • @Nohbdy111:

    Yeah, but I don’t like including it because it’s not intended and isn’t supposed to be a factor when determining balance. I think I’ll just raise all the pole arms by 1 point despite how much I think handle hits should be taken into account.

    Calling it a bug is just stupid though. And using the argument that it wasn’t intended is stupid as well. CFTP and FTP weren’t intended, being able to wrap stabs around parries wasn’t intended either. I mean good lord. Quake literally invented the rocket jumping mechanic and it wasn’t intended. The community found it and the developers embraced it.

    I guess we shouldn’t factor CFTP, and FTP in balance either. I guess Quake maps shouldn’t have rocket jumping in mind since it wasn’t intended.



  • @Nohbdy111:

    You really think the Greatsword is actually better than the Brandistock?

    No combos (and therefore cftp) + no combo parry= indirect spear-type nerf
    Otherwise they would be pretty much on par, with the brandi having a slight advantage.



  • @Flippy:

    Calling it a bug is just stupid though. And using the argument that it wasn’t intended is stupid as well. CFTP and FTP weren’t intended, being able to wrap stabs around parries wasn’t intended either. I mean good lord. Quake literally invented the rocket jumping mechanic and it wasn’t intended. The community found it and the developers embraced it.

    I guess we shouldn’t factor CFTP, and FTP in balance either. I guess Quake maps shouldn’t have rocket jumping in mind since it wasn’t intended.

    I would agree with you, but the thing is that CFTP and FTP are both good for the game(kinda like a pleasant surprise), whereas handle hits have nothing but a negative effect upon gameplay and if you hadn’t noticed I all ready upped the rankings of the polearms in the OP.



  • @Nohbdy111:

    I would agree with you, but the thing is that CFTP and FTP are both good for the game(kinda like a pleasant surprise), whereas handle hits have nothing but a negative effect upon gameplay and if you hadn’t noticed I all ready upped the rankings of the polearms in the OP.

    Negative impact on the game? If it was really so negative I’m pretty sure the forums would’ve been filled with players whining about them a long time ago. Do you really think they’re just now becoming a problem? Sounds like bias to me.



  • I would rather have handle hits than the handle going through me and having to turn 180 degrees to block the tip of a halberd/bardiche/insrt fgt wep here.



  • @Flippy:

    Negative impact on the game? If it was really so negative I’m pretty sure the forums would’ve been filled with players whining about them a long time ago. Do you really think they’re just now becoming a problem? Sounds like bias to me.

    Oh dear lord, Flippy, just because it’s not one of the most prioritized, hated things in the game does not mean it doesn’t have a negative impact on the game. It’s kinda how religion is absolute poison to society and yet no one tries to get rid of it. Use your head before you say shit, seriously.



  • @Karasu:

    I would rather have handle hits than the handle going through me and having to turn 180 degrees to block the tip of a halberd/bardiche/insrt fgt wep here.

    When he say handle, we don’t mean the entire god damn shaft, just the part of the shaft occupied by your hands and the bit below your hands.



  • @Nohbdy111:

    When he say handle, we don’t mean the entire god damn shaft, just the part of the shaft occupied by your hands and the bit below your hands.

    Either way it just takes a small adjustment. It doesn’t really ruin balance at all. It’s a surprise like you said cftp was, but it’s still easy to parry.



  • @Karasu:

    Either way it just takes a small adjustment. It doesn’t really ruin balance at all. It’s a surprise like you said cftp was, but it’s still easy to parry.

    It is easy to parry, but if you try and parry the handle hit, meaning you parry early, then a good Halberd/Bardiche/whatever user can use that to his advantage and bluff the lookdown OH, turning it into a decelerated OH and there’s no chance in hell you’re parrying that if he executes it correctly and you parried early trying to parry a potential handle hit. When fighting a good polearm user it’s like either A. Get fucked by handle hits, or B. Get fucked by decels



  • Lots of people have whined about handle hits (and with good reason IMO) and yes they’re talking about the insta-hit with the lower end of the shaft. I typed “handle hits” into the forum search and came up with 126 posts and I’m sure that didn’t pick them all up because people would have also called it other things.

    I remember people constantly whining about it about a year or so ago.



  • @Dr:

    Lots of people have whined about handle hits (and with good reason IMO) and yes they’re talking about the insta-hit with the lower end of the shaft. I typed “handle hits” into the forum search and came up with 126 posts and I’m sure that didn’t pick them all up because people would have also called it other things.

    I remember people constantly whining about it about a year or so ago.

    And on top of this, there’s probably many more of those threads that don’t exist anymore because they were on the old forums(and there definitely were from I remember).

    Get rekt, Flippy.

    Get rekt



  • That would be incredibly difficult to do with the vertical cap in place. I’ve seen it happen of course. But it’s not something you can do very often. The defender has to make a mistake like most other hits.

    Zob, it’s not instant. Just stop.



  • Also, search is broken. I typed in ****** and this thread popped up: http://forums.tornbanner.com/showthread.php/3835-Chivalry-based-short-story-posts?highlight=******

    No mention of ******s there.

    Edit: lol figgot ;)



  • @Karasu:

    That would be incredibly difficult to do with the vertical cap in place. I’ve seen it happen of course. But it’s not something you can do very often. The defender has to make a mistake like most other hits.

    Zob, it’s not instant. Just stop.

    He means instant after windup(I hope) and what I said is actually not that hard to do if you practice drags at all. I do it all the time with the Greatsword and it’s retard speed OH. I don’t see how it would be any more difficult with a Halberd, especially since the Halberd OH starts much further behind your head than a Greatsword OH does.



  • @Flippy:

    Calling it a bug is just stupid though. And using the argument that it wasn’t intended is stupid as well. CFTP and FTP weren’t intended, being able to wrap stabs around parries wasn’t intended either. I mean good lord. Quake literally invented the rocket jumping mechanic and it wasn’t intended. The community found it and the developers embraced it.

    I guess we shouldn’t factor CFTP, and FTP in balance either. I guess Quake maps shouldn’t have rocket jumping in mind since it wasn’t intended.

    There are two questions to ask.

    First, was it intentionally added or a mistake?

    And secondly, does it add anything to the game in it being there?

    For CFTP, the answer to the first question is yes. Likewise to handle hits.

    To the second question, it’s a resounding YES across the board for CFTP, whereas handle hits are largely disliked and hated across the community. Do you think handle hits add to the game? I do not.

    @Flippy:

    Negative impact on the game? If it was really so negative I’m pretty sure the forums would’ve been filled with players whining about them a long time ago. Do you really think they’re just now becoming a problem? Sounds like bias to me.

    People have been complaining about handle hits in-game and on the forums since the dawn of Chivalry time.


Log in to reply