My personal thoughts on what needs to be done to balance archer.



  • Archer is in desperate need of balancing, we all know that. Theres been a lot of discussion, and of course theres a lot of work to be done - and in my experience (221 hours in game), I can give some insight into what would sort things out here: from a competitive perspective and casual perspective. I just thought i’d post this in its own separate thread, because I think its worth saying.

    I saw another thread in which people were really throwing out crazy ideas about what should be done to archer - like giving them “mauls” and such. Please, lets not be silly here.

    –----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    -Firstly, I can sort of understand why most people want archers to be able to dodge. They’re an agile class and can be oneshotted by most weapons. This is just unfair, dodge COULD even this out a little bit. I think warsaw tried this out in his mod - and for anyone who has tried it: it works really well. TB should definitely consider this, but I understand why they may not wish to give one ability to two classes, for diversity’s sake. Undecided on this, but there are other things that can be done to balance the class in its stead.

    • Second, arrows travel a touch too slowly. Its quite difficult to hit things at the current speed: this needs increasing. I’d estimate… possibly by a third; but ofc needs beta testing first. But anyway - considering the ranged aspect of the archer defines the class itself, it is UNACCEPTABLE that in its current state: it loses out in comparison with the strengths of the other classes: such as knight. Crossbows in particular need a little work: in real life crossbows were useful for armies as they could be used with little skill/training - in comparison to longbows. Yet in this game, they are actually slightly more difficult to use - which does not make sense. Tweaking this will improve the gameplay as well as realism.

    • The arrow pool is a little small, imo, But especially for javelins. This should possibly be increased for all ranged weapons, but definitely for javelins if not. To elaborate - as it stands, once you’ve thrown your few precious javs - you then have to rely on your secondary: and the archer secondaries are basically useless.

    • Continuing this: archer secondaries should be buffed a little. It doesnt need much but, its simply a one way battle if a knight or vanguard gets close to you atm. I understand that archers are meant to be weaker in melee, but in its current state: this is ridiculously unfair for archers. It shouldnt be a total whitewash.

    • Archers also need a slight movement speed increase, right now its definitely too hard to get away from most enemies if you need to run - which is important. If I get a knight sneak up on me and give chase, theres no way ill get away currently: needs hotfixing immediately. Other changes need tweaking and beta testing obviously but - this is one change that simply needs doing at once. TB - get to work.

    • Less weapons should one-shot archers. Right now, its just horrible balance - and takes the skill out of the game. It allows bad players to spam vanguard charge, getting free kills on better players. Either this, or allow archer to take out his secondary a bit faster, so that he can block these charge attacks if he hears the “scream” first.

    • Draw time: I dont think this really needs tweaking but - bearing in mind that real archers could loose dozens of shafts in seconds: I think that in comparison, the games draw speed is a little slow to be realistic. I use longbows a lot in real life and let me tell you, I could send three arrows a hundred yards in the time that you can shoot one in game. Not authentic.


    So yeah, thats it basically. In the current meta - archer is essentially worthless. Only a few teams even bother to run with one archer setups (god forbid two archer setups), because of the danger of being totally destroyed by melee only teams. The game should have more dimensions to it than “only melee”.

    Just thought i’d share. Dont flame please - these are only my observations.

    *EDIT some people really didnt get it and it worries me

    **_REALLY THOUGH IM OFC NOT SERIOUS AND THIS IS DEFINITELY A METICULOUS TROLL THREAD

    _**kthx, nerf archer hard please TB - basically everything I said i mean the exact opposite: and no, my grand total of hours in game is ofc not 221 im much more of a gimp than that



  • Your sarcasm aside, the draw time for the bows feels low compared to other games with archery. If the extraordinary languid pace of the warbow was increased it would feel even more ridiculous.



  • This is a recipe for epic gameplay.



  • Halfway through and my blood was boiling until I realized. I think I died a little inside.



  • I still think they should have mauls.



  • I tried my best to appear sincere. Seriously though, fuck archer



  • My opinion on archer balance is:

    1. Bolts and arrows do less damage to the torso and limbs.
    2. Slow down the daggers and shortsword/sabre/dudgel to Morningstar speed!!! but keep the damage the same. Small step at a time but i would feel this is a good idea.
    3. Increase the aiming with bow and crossbow time.
    4. This morning was a fourth idea as well but i forgot, it was a good one.


  • @Jimmie:

    1. Slow down the daggers and shortsword/sabre/dudgel to Morningstar speed!!! but keep the damage the same. Small step at a time but i would feel this is a good idea.

    Someone really managed to bring out a more stupid idea than Turd.



  • the part about 1 shotting archers I find a bit funny people all over the forums will complain that archers are no were near the battle and trying to be snipers but 1 third of the archers weapons are ment to be used to snipe and thelly try to snipe because a lot of weapons 1 shot them if they even get near a fight but that aside. the archer is the weakest in melee for a reason he can deal MASSIVE damage from any range on the map but when the big boys get near him hes at a disadvantage making him stronger in melee (as he is right now) just doesn’t really seem fair

    so you dodged all the arrows fought past my team and made your way up to me……-pulls out dagger- sucks to be you



  • I was about to say, you thought I was serious about giving archers mauls? Then I read a bit further.

    And yeah I am serious about it. I also think it would be hilarious seeing a burly archer doing a vanguard style slash attack with a dagger, squealing in his manly voice.



  • @Evil:

    Someone really managed to bring out a more stupid idea than Turd.

    SInce archers are so powerful i really dont understand why they have to be so strong in melee as well. Very fast weapons are pretty strong, combined with feints and on purpose misses they can be very difficult to fight against. SLowing down the archers melee capacity needs to be done. I feel like this is a interesting idea to consider.



  • For archer to be more balanced, arm hits should not count as torso and should do less damage.

    Secondly all the bows should aimed by looking down the arrow as opposed to a pin point accurate crosshair.



  • Why don’t we just REMOVE all the other classes? Nobody likes the melee combat anyway, the ranged combat is where Chivalry shines.



  • @zombojoe:

    For archer to be more balanced, arm hits should not count as torso and should do less damage.

    Secondly all the bows should aimed by looking down the arrow as opposed to a pin point accurate crosshair.

    Good ideas - can you post them in one of the serious Archer balance topics? The aiming should also work this way for Sling and javelins. Technically it already works this way for crossbows - which is okay as they are supposed to be high damaging and easy to aim sniper weapons that come with a significant fire rate disadvantage. So up the reload speed instead.



  • @zombojoe:

    For archer to be more balanced, arm hits should not count as torso and should do less damage.

    Secondly all the bows should aimed by looking down the arrow as opposed to a pin point accurate crosshair.

    I like that first idea. Too many times you see Heavy Crossbow shots shoot you in the hand or the arm, yet it counts as body shot damage. Plus I would love to catch a crossbow shot through my hand and make it count as leg damage. :)



  • I think one underlying problem that might alleviate a lot of grief is…. why do projectiles do torso damage when hit in the arms?



  • Arm damage = torso damage makes sense for melee attacks given how they work ingame (going right through bodies etc.) but for ranged attacks reduced damage to arms would make sense. It would reduce the consistent damage output and emphasize aiming for more vulnerable body parts.

    Might cause some frustration if your target suddenly turns to the side - but then its your own fault not aiming for the head, timing your attack better, getting a little closer to reduce reaction time or getting spotted in the first place.



  • thanks for the positive shout out,
    you should check out archers dodging it is pretty sick and adds more depth to the combat,
    a lot of the secondaries in our mod are bigger and badder which also wouldn’t be a bad idea for the stock game.

    a 3 foot falchion or a 4 ft dane axe or a 2 and a half foot holy water or a 4 ft cudgel does look pretty epic if I do say so myself, and really makes the secondaries usefull and a viable choice.

    I wouldn’t make the arrows faster though in the regular game imo

    we took a diff approach and made 3 really diff unique feeling bows each with a purpose and fighting style,

    long bow-for long shots 0-250ft
    warbow-for midrange 0-150ft
    and short bow(aka matrix bow)0-30 feet
    quick shooting short range game up close and personal with matrix arrows
    that have different whistling sounds each shot while airborne

    this also helps bring the archers up into the battle and to utilize their speed and agility as maa does in mele and not back camping you from a mile away.

    working really good so far in beta.



  • Since when did archers suddenly become OP? I’ve been away from a while; before, everyone was complaining about maa.



  • @wyrda78:

    Since when did archers suddenly become OP? I’ve been away from a while; before, everyone was complaining about maa.

    I can’t work out if this guy is an idiot or just dumb.


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