Controls are a serious issue



  • @Nameless1:

    3 attacks + parry + faint + zoom (bows, …) + crossbow recharging
    Here you have it: SEVEN keys (and I’m probably forgetting something) on MW, TWO on M&B

    Hi, I’m bothering writing this so you can presume I care about this game and would like to play it.
    There’s a problem though, I find the controls totally and utterly awful.

    Really, I do not remember the last time I found so many problems (or the impossibility) in finding a good setup for the keybinding.

    • First of all the (I presume) bugs, one of them already reported: the “end” (or “1” on the numpad) and “return” keys not working (I binded return on “use”)
    • Second, there’s no way to bind a single key on separated actions (ie zoom and parry, etc…)
    • Third, why on earth didn’t you bind the different type of attacks on the different mouse movement (mount and blade alike)? I hope there’s a really really really good reason for that nonsense.

    Maybe that’s just me, but with this kind of conrols I didn’t even bothered going beyond the tutorial. It’s literally game breaking for me, and I’ve tried all the combinations i could.
    So I have to ask: are controls going to be fixed?



  • I personally do not like the mount and blade controls. They are not as fluid as this can be. The controls will thankfully never be like mount and blade. You can do so much more the way they are.

    Key binding I think has been discussed. A dev will have to answer about multiple binds.

    I ask you at least try it. It may be confusing at first, so was mount and blade controls to me, but it gets a lot easier. To me, more fun too.



  • There’s already long threads explaining the viewpoints from both sides. It takes a long time to get used to the control system for sure but the discussion simply isn’t going anywhere and the developers have decided to use the system that they have decided to use. It’s simple as that.



  • I got used to the system quite quickly though I’m not sure if I prefer it to the m&b ones. It’s kind of okay here since all of the attacks are slowly executed.

    But parry should be on rmb by standards. I used this mounse raider thingy and it’s much better than default q.



  • You mean feint, not parry?



  • It’s just a different system and if you are not totally mentally disabled you can play with the default controls just fine. I played m+b for years and did not have any problems using this approach on combat. There are still some minor issues that can be annoying (see here for some details viewtopic.php?f=68&t=3027&p=23554#p23446 ) but in general the controls are not bad.

    Just don’t give up so easy.



  • @Malekous:

    I personally do not like the mount and blade controls. They are not as fluid as this can be. The controls will thankfully never be like mount and blade. You can do so much more the way they are.

    Malekous, I’m not exaggerating if I say the actions that in M&B require three-four keys here require TEN. And these are facts. I’m totally speechless in reading you actually criticising M&B controls.

    For the rest “wow”, I really didn’t expect to find all the replies defending the actual system.
    What can I say…I’m not going to play the game then, that’s all. As I’ve said in the first post I’ve already tried to find a good compromise before opening the thread, that’s not the problem.
    bye

    PS: I play with the mouse on the left and the right hand on the arrow keys. Never had a problem playing whatever fps or other genre. I had problems like these in maybe 2 games out of 100, don’t remember the last one.



  • @Nameless1:

    Malekous, I’m not exaggerating if I say the actions that in M&B require three-four keys here require TEN. And these are facts. I’m totally speechless in reading you actually criticising M&B controls.

    For the rest “wow”, I really didn’t expect to find all the replies defending the actual system.
    What can I say…I’m not going to play the game then, that’s all. As I’ve said in the first post I’ve already tried to find a good compromise before opening the thread, that’s not the problem.
    bye

    PS: I play with the mouse on the left and the right hand on the arrow keys. Never had a problem playing whatever fps or other genre. I had problems like these in maybe 2 games out of 100, don’t remember the last one.

    The mount and blade control scheme works because it’s a third person player game for the most part. It would be really awkward in an FPS game like this, which relies on much more subtle movements and hit detection, to be swinging your view in all sorts of directions while attacking, especially since in Chivalry you can alter your swing’s trajectory on the fly. If they were to implement a new directional swing system, they’d more likely have to use the Jedi Knight formula where your movement direction alters your swing, but again I think that would ruin the movement in this game which I love so much.

    EDIT: As for the bugs with the left handed mouse controls, hopefully they can fix that for you. Torn Banner has been really active in fixing things and responding on the forums. Give them a chance, they are a small team on the verge of their first release and they are probably focused on some of the bigger items at hand.



  • In my opinion, mount and blade controls are not fluid and take too much out of mouse turning to make parrying. I found myself parrying the wrong direction too many times even though I knew I moved the mouse correctly. Too steep a learning curve for something that could be simple. I find that simplicity (yet with the same depth) in Chivalry.
    Sorry that makes you speechless ;P

    Also, devs are working on the bugs with the keybinds. I hope they solve the problem for you in the near future.



  • @Secundus:

    The mount and blade control scheme works because it’s a third person player game for the most part. It would be really awkward in an FPS game like this, which relies on much more subtle movements and hit detection, to be swinging your view in all sorts of directions while attacking, especially since in Chivalry you can alter your swing’s trajectory on the fly.

    1. You can play Chivalry very well in 3rd person. It’s really no different to M&B in this regard.

    2. When we’re demanding directional mouse controls like in M&B we’re talking about the initiation of attacks. So instead of scrolling your mouse wheel forward to do a thrust, you’d be moving your mouse forward+left mouse key to do so. You could still be moving your blade in every direction you want afterwards. It’s really just about alternative buttons for the same thing (just like M&B offers the option to use either mouse directions or buttons to do so)

    3. For parrying I wouldn’t suggest to take the M&B scheme as Chivalry’s is superior there.

    As Sturmhardt said the default buttons are fine as well. I needed some hours to get used to it and I wouldn’t necessarily change it back to M&B attack initiation controls as it works just fine. The only thing I would Chivalry like to consider is imidiate slashing from the left.

    @sadnhappy: yes, I meant feint. Thanks.



  • Besides having Q for feint, I like the controlls.



  • @Malekous:

    In my opinion, mount and blade controls are not fluid and take too much out of mouse turning to make parrying. I found myself parrying the wrong direction too many times even though I knew I moved the mouse correctly. Too steep a learning curve for something that could be simple. I find that simplicity (yet with the same depth) in Chivalry.
    Sorry that makes you speechless ;P

    No that’s not what I meant. What I meant was to replicate the attack system of M&B, that i find absolutely perfect. Parrying can be done like it is now. Not only that, you can also faint with the rmb. Or zoom with bows.
    Here you have it: SIX keys on MW, TWO on M&B



  • @Nameless1:

    Hi, I’m bothering writing this so you can presume I care about this game and would like to play it.
    There’s a problem though, I find the controls totally and utterly awful.

    Really, I do not remember the last time I found so many problems (or the impossibility) in finding a good setup for the keybinding.

    • First of all the (I presume) bugs, one of them already reported: the “end” (or “1” on the numpad) and “return” keys not working (I binded return on “use”)
    • Second, there’s no way to bind a single key on separated actions (ie zoom and parry, etc…)
    • Third, why on earth didn’t you bind the different type of attacks on the different mouse movement (mount and blade alike)? I hope there’s a really really really good reason for that nonsense.

    Maybe that’s just me, but with this kind of conrols I didn’t even bothered going beyond the tutorial. It’s literally game breaking for me, and I’ve tried all the combinations i could.
    So I have to ask: are controls going to be fixed?

    Another M&B control fan , dude seriously a lot of people including myself do not want nor like the M&B system, its not as fluid or intense and you do not get the same type of battles. Controls are totally fine and for the rest you can bind/trick as you wish, but ffs no M&B controls, that would totally ruin it for me.

    I dislike War of the Roses a lot on just the control aspect…
    I find chivalry a lot more natural and fluid than M&B or WOTR.

    Last but not least , how is many buttons a disadvantage ? For once it actually takes some smart binding and skill instead of having a 1-2-win button(s) that does everything for you. Is it really that hard to manage your keys…



  • @heady89:

    Another M&B control fan , dude seriously a lot of people including myself do not want nor like the M&B system, its not as fluid or intense and you do not get the same type of battles. Controls are totally fine and for the rest you can bind/trick as you wish, but ffs no M&B controls, that would totally ruin it for me.

    I dislike War of the Roses a lot on just the control aspect…
    I find chivalry a lot more natural and fluid than M&B or WOTR.

    Sorry, but apparently you didn’t play M&B Warband very much. The directional attacking movements are extremely easy to perform (fluid you might say). It is so easy that some dudes can perform multiple attacks/feints and blockings in different directions within a very second.

    And it has absolutely nothing to do with intensity if your scrolling your mouse wheel forward or slightly move your mouse forward+press lmb.

    All the other stuff like slow attack animtions, further sword control when the attack is released etc. are perfectly fine in Chivalry and would stay the way they are.

    Last but not least , how is many buttons a disadvantage ? For once it actually takes some smart binding and skill instead of having a 1-2-win button(s) that does everything for you. Is it really that hard to manage your keys…

    You can do various different action with only 2 buttons in warband. What’s that got to do with “win buttons”? It’s a slightly different system that combines few buttons with mouse directional movement rather than the same thing with more buttons. Both work great. No need to bash one another.



  • the controls introduced in the game are made on purpose.

    I believe the devs already studied the M&B system, and believed it was not what they wanted in their game (btw : fluidity is closer to combat beauty and not easiness to use the controls).

    The M&B system is too robotic, a bit confusing for new players, and not quite fluid at all. The system worked fine, don’t get me wrong, but we have a better one here.

    So I don’t believe nor want the controls will change, and in no way is this a broken thing to “fix”.

    Also, trying to implement new systems in melee combat is necessary, else the only system people will ever think of is that of M&B and WotR, which is very perfectible.



  • @Jihell:

    (btw : fluidity is closer to combat beauty and not easiness to use the controls).

    Yes, and it wouldn’t change at all if the attack initiation controls were altered. (or only slightly)

    Also, trying to implement new systems in melee combat is necessary, else the only system people will ever think of is that of M&B and WotR, which is very perfectible.

    No opposition here. I’m only suggesting to offer both possibilities so the player can decide what he likes best. (Which is what M&B also did, as I repeatedly mentioned.)



  • @Siegbert:

    @Jihell:

    (btw : fluidity is closer to combat beauty and not easiness to use the controls).

    Yes, and it wouldn’t change at all if the attack initiation controls were altered. (or only slightly)

    Also, trying to implement new systems in melee combat is necessary, else the only system people will ever think of is that of M&B and WotR, which is very perfectible.

    No opposition here. I’m only suggesting to offer both possibilities so the player can decide what he likes best. (Which is what M&B also did, as I repeatedly mentioned.)

    I meant M&B combat system is nearly ugly, or at least not nearly as nice to watch as the one of Chivalry.

    Also, M&B didn’t give any option besides auto-block (btw, I never found what was different about it, but peopl seem to know, I assume it allows for easy attacks to get blocked easier), and combat speed. So it’s not as if they were offering two clearly different combat styles (and the fact you said is several times won’t make it any truer).

    What’s more, while I would totally agree there’s no wrong in allowing both systems to co-exist, I fear there would be balance issues between the two of them, if any coexistance is possible at all (which might not be the case, one should ask the devs). Anyway, more work on a combat system might also seem superfluous considering there is already one working well, and the amount of work it would require to introduce, settle nicely and balance everything out.



  • please delete



  • @Jihell:

    I meant M&B combat system is nearly ugly, or at least not nearly as nice to watch as the one of Chivalry.

    But that is no matter of how the attacks are initiated but of animations, delay and further control. We are argueing about whether Chivalry should have the M&B like directional attack initiations and not about whether is should copy everything from M&B over (including crappy animations etc.)

    Just making sure everybody talks about the same topic…

    Also, M&B didn’t give any option besides auto-block (btw, I never found what was different about it, but peopl seem to know, I assume it allows for easy attacks to get blocked easier)

    Auto block let’s you block every incoming attack without without having to care about from which direction the attack comes. That’s the case when blocking without a shield.

    So it’s not as if they were offering two clearly different combat styles (and the fact you said is several times won’t make it any truer).

    But it is true. Look in the options menue:

    Control attack direction: By mouse movement

    Control attack direction: By inverse mouse movement

    Control attack direction: By movement keys

    Control attack direction: By relative enemy position



  • well i come from mount and blade, and i was pissed of just like you on the controls until i actually played the game! after 3-4 days i have to say i like the whole game better than m&b, i have no problemz with controls, it could be polished a lil bit, but im ok with that.


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