So… What do we want?



  • In this thread I’m gonna list a bunch of “issues” with game balance/mechanics, and you guys will post which one’s you think should be prioritized to fix in whatever order you think. Also, state which “problems” you think aren’t problems and don’t need to change.
    **
    Note that this thread is not meant for discussion, but to give TBS an idea of what the forum community/experienced player community thinks needs to be the most prioritized in changing the game.

    **The “issues”:

    Making 100% of all feints readable 100% of the time **if the defender has enough skill
    **Removing handle hits
    Nerfing/Reworking Fire Pots
    Nerfing the Brandistock
    Nerfing the Greatsword
    Nerfing the Grand Mace
    Making MaA dodge purely defensive
    Making feints more forgiving
    Changing the Bearded Axe
    Buffing the Double Axe
    Buffing the Warhammer
    Buffing the LS damage
    Buffing the SoW
    Nerfing the Messer
    Buffing the Flails
    Reworking the Claymore
    Increasing flinch time on very slow two handed weapons
    Removing shield drop time/Buffing shields in some way
    Buffing the Bardiche
    Nerfing HWS stab damage
    Buffing the Dane Axe
    Buffing the Falchion
    Nerfing Warbow damage
    Nerfing all Crossbows’ reload speed/projectile speed/damage
    Fix getting stuck in javelin reload when you get hit is javelin throw recovery
    Removing/Reducing sprint lockout after getting your attack parried
    Weapons can become faster than normal with a shield equipped

    (Btw this isn’t my personal list. It’s just a compilation of things that have been mentioned)

    Those are not in any particular order and you guys can decide what order each of you, individually, think it should be and you can decide which of those on that list don’t belong on the list at all. Of course add



  • I dont agree with all of them - but overall: I agree with a lot of these, and I’ll leave it at that :). If all this got done - i’d be pretty happy overall.

    For example, i dont really agree wid GM nerf or feint nerfing but… i can see why people might think that and i got no problem with them thinking that.

    A splendid list of changes for TB to consider, all in all.



  • Archer nerf.



  • Making 100% of all feints readable 100% of the time **if the defender has enough skill
    **Removing handle hits
    Nerfing the Brandistock
    Nerfing the Greatsword
    Nerfing the Grand Mace
    Changing the Bearded Axe
    Buffing the Double Axe
    Buffing the Warhammer
    Buffing the LS damage
    Buffing the SoW
    Buffing the Flails
    Removing shield drop time/Buffing shields in some way
    Buffing the Bardiche
    Buffing the Dane Axe
    Buffing the Falchion
    Nerfing Warbow damage
    Removing/Reducing sprint lockout after getting your attack parried
    Nerfing Javelin damage
    Reverting latest bubble changes
    Reverting latest camera and animation changes
    Keep new axe animations
    Nerf fast kick
    Increase defensive feint window
    Lower recovery time for parries drastically on hit

    ^My personal list. Good thread btw nohbdy

    edit: forgot something, added



  • I agree with a lot of these, so it’s easier to post the ones I disagree with:

    Nerfing the Greatsword: It’s just a good, solid sword, and I’ve only heard any mention of it being overpowered in the last month or so. What often happens in games is that players gravitate towards the “standard” weapons. It happens in CoD, it happens in Team Fortress 2, it happens in Chivalry. The Greatsword doesn’t have extraordinary damage or speed, and its reach is comparable to many other Vanguard weapons. The bubble reduction has essentially buffed all short weapons as well.

    Nerfing the Messer: The Messer excels at team-oriented group fights, and is useless everywhere else. It’s short, it’s slow, its stab is non-existent. The one thing is does is cut well, and I don’t think that one ability is enough to call for a nerf. Put it up against an MaA or Vanguard in single combat and it can’t compete.

    Buffing the Falchion: If you’re going to do this, tread VERY carefully. Remember how annoying it used to be?

    Nerfing Warbow damage: Fine, but ABSOLUTELY not to the head, and I’d personally say not to the very upper chest either. The built in inaccuracy of the projectile weapons makes turning them into purely headshot weapons impractical.

    Nerfing all Crossbows’ reload speed/projectile speed/damage: Damage only, in a similar manner to the Warbow. They’re plenty slow enough to reload, and slower projectiles are mostly just annoying, not a serious way to balance it. A Heavy Crossbow is supposed to shoot a fast bolt.



  • @Mockingbirch:

    I agree with a lot of these, so it’s easier to post the ones I disagree with:

    Nerfing the Greatsword: It’s just a good, solid sword, and I’ve only heard any mention of it being overpowered in the last month or so. What often happens in games is that players gravitate towards the “standard” weapons. It happens in CoD, it happens in Team Fortress 2, it happens in Chivalry. The Greatsword doesn’t have extraordinary damage or speed, and its reach is comparable to many other Vanguard weapons. The bubble reduction has essentially buffed all short weapons as well.

    Nerfing the Messer: The Messer excels at team-oriented group fights, and is useless everywhere else. It’s short, it’s slow, its stab is non-existent. The one thing is does is cut well, and I don’t think that one ability is enough to call for a nerf. Put it up against an MaA or Vanguard in single combat and it can’t compete.

    Buffing the Falchion: If you’re going to do this, tread VERY carefully. Remember how annoying it used to be?

    Nerfing Warbow damage: Fine, but ABSOLUTELY not to the head, and I’d personally say not to the very upper chest either. The built in inaccuracy of the projectile weapons makes turning them into purely headshot weapons impractical.

    Nerfing all Crossbows’ reload speed/projectile speed/damage: Damage only, in a similar manner to the Warbow. They’re plenty slow enough to reload, and slower projectiles are mostly just annoying, not a serious way to balance it. A Heavy Crossbow is supposed to shoot a fast bolt.

    I lol’d at all these disagreements. The greatsword is HORRENDOUSLY too good. Not high damage or speed? HAH it will 2 hit every class with its massive overhead damage, which is ONLY .5 windup, thats faster than the longswords windup and that thing is weaker, slower, and shorter.

    The falchion? that thing is terrible and I havent seen one used in a year

    Archers projectiles need a damage nerf, they are supposed to be a SUPPORT class not this ridiculous bolt action sniper rifle skinned as a bow class, a warbow does 90 damage to a knight in the face, and will 1 shot vanguards to the head, vanguards have NO projectile protection whatsoever, not to mention how tremendously good archers are in melee itself. Archers projectiles shouldnt do more than 50 damage in my opinion



  • Also, I believe the MaA dodge should be purely defensive, even after all the nerfs it’s still far too offensive, if they put a simple .3-.5 cooldown on attacking after a dodge, all problems will be solved, maa are really immune to flinch, you can go in for a hit trade, smack them with whatever 2 hander you want, you cant combo since they flinched you, but they can dodge to the side and stab you again before you can hit them again. NONSENSE.

    I think handle hits are the main problem with certain weapons, take the grand mace, I don’t think it needs too much of a nerf considering its slow combo speeds, horrendous stab, and mediocre lmb, its almost like the new bearded axe, its overhead is really the only thing it has going for it, it currently is the hittrading king, but if you take the handle hits away by deleting the handle tracers, it should balance the weapon a fair bit.

    the messer I don’t believe should one hit man at arms, so it should see a small damage nerf



  • Can’t agree on nerfing Messer or buffing bardiche. I’d say bardiche is the worst polearm but there are 4 of them so it kind of makes sense that fulfilling a niche is kinda balanced. It’s anti archer and maa, I dont think you’re ever gonna see it used in a scrim or by a good duelist who isn’t just fucking around, but it does have a role, even if it is just crushing tons of archers. If you buff it by giving it a stab or making it faster it might just lessen the value of halberd or billhook. And if you do speed it up you are removing the tiny bit of drag cabability it has; which is a little gimmicky and doesn’t work on good players too often but it is there. I dunno, I guess you could just give it a stab and it’d still be balanced. It’d be pub god mode but that’s cool I guess lol. As for messer, I think it’s decent but a tad overrated. It has cheese drags but I don’t really see how it’s op. It’s damage is entirely based around headshots so I think it should be rewarding if the user can consistently land them. And even then, 2 shorting knights is the only noteworthy thing it does imo. Plenty of things 1 shot archers in the head, and any not retarded maa can just throw off your aim to their head from the impending slash by ducking or jumping of they fall for a feint.



  • Making 100% of all feints readable 100% of the time if the defender has enough skill

    Feints are already 100% readable. Nerf them anymore and they’ll be completely useless at high-level play. The only thing that right now could possibly be done to make feints “better” is to globally decrease the windup on stabs, and change the stab animation so it pulls back farther before releasing.

    Removing handle hits

    Every single weapon in this game can handle hit. If you removed them, accelerating attacks would be completely useless. Just slightly raise the tracers up on the handle on the worse weapons. (Polearms, Maul, Gmace, polehammer, etc.)

    Nerfing the Brandistock

    Just reduce the damage on the LMB and reduce the release on the thrust. If you over-nerf it, it will be trash-tier.

    Nerfing the Greatsword

    Just slightly increase the windup on the overhead and maybe slightly shorten the release of the stab. Otherwise it’s in a fine spot.

    Nerfing the Grand Mace

    Gmace doesn’t need to be nerfed. Just raise the tracers from the handles a little bit and problem solved.

    Making MaA dodge purely defensive

    What the fuck no. Just take all depth out of the class would ya? MAA is FINE right now. It’s in the best place it’s been since release. It’s not OP in any instance, it’s not OP in duels, it’s not OP in teamfights, they very rarely top the scoreboard, and they frequently go negative if they get zoned well.

    Making feints more forgiving

    Nerf them anymore and they’ll be completely useless at high-level play. Feints are fine. People need to just learn the muscle memory which takes time.

    Changing the Bearded Axe

    Agreed.

    Buffing the Double Axe

    This thing really doesn’t need a buff. Spook ****s with it in scrims and duels. It’s in a fine state. I wouldn’t really be against buffing it but just don’t buff the damn range. It’s supposed to be short. The poleaxe is supposed to be long.

    Buffing the Warhammer

    I don’t see why not.

    Buffing the LS damage

    Give it a 3 HTK on knights and a 3 HTK on vanguards. It’s supposed to be the middle-ground between the SoW and Messer. Messer is better against knights while SoW is better against vanguards. Give it a balance.

    Buffing the SoW

    Holy hell no. Definitely doesn’t need a buff. It can 2-3 shot every class with decent range to boot. Plus it has some of the best stab drags and stab feints in the game.

    Nerfing the Messer

    It has a short range so it’s easy to be zoned in teamfights. I don’t see why it needs to be buffed.

    Buffing the Flails

    I think some weapons are just meant to fill a silly niche. If you buff the flails, everyone would use them just because it’s so hard to read the animations on it. It’s just supposed to be a goofy, messing around weapon and I think the balance would become way too complicated if we tried to balance it.

    Reworking the Claymore

    Why? It’s a faster, weaker, shorter greatsword. The animations on it are fine and I’ve never had any trouble parrying it at all.

    Increasing flinch time on very slow two handed weapons

    Only for Maul and Zweihander.

    Removing shield drop time/Buffing shields in some way

    Totally agree with this.

    Buffing the Bardiche

    I don’t see why. It has extremely good lookdowns and drags. The only weakness is the lack of a decent stab which is kind of the idea. Solo Dolo does really well with this thing in scrims.

    Nerfing HWS stab damage

    I agree with this.

    Buffing the Dane Axe

    Be careful with this. Otherwise it will be incredibly OP like it was before.

    Buffing the Falchion

    Same as above.

    I’m not gonna make a comment on any of the archer balance.

    Removing/Reducing sprint lockout after getting your attack parried

    Agreed.



  • I embolded the suggestions I agree with and put italics to the ones I disagree with.

    Making 100% of all feints readable 100% of the time if the defender has enough skill - This is possible already given good ping**.** I’d like a sound effect for feints, though.**
    Removing handle hits** - on the particularly troublesome weapons only, though
    Nerfing/Reworking Fire Pots
    Nerfing the Brandistock
    Nerfing the Greatsword
    Nerfing the Grand Mace
    Making MaA dodge purely defensive

    Making feints more forgiving - What do you mean by this?
    Changing the Bearded Axe
    Buffing the Double Axe
    Buffing the Warhammer
    Buffing the LS damage
    Buffing the SoW

    Nerfing the Messer - Nah, it already has a terrible range. It’s only good in large team fights.
    Buffing the Flails
    Reworking the Claymore
    Increasing flinch time on very slow two handed weapons - Well, I’d rather increase the flinch time all over the board to 0.925
    Removing shield drop time/Buffing shields in some way
    Buffing the Bardiche
    Nerfing HWS stab damage
    Buffing the Dane Axe
    Buffing the Falchion
    Nerfing Warbow damage
    Nerfing all Crossbows’ reload speed/projectile speed/damage
    Fix getting stuck in javelin reload when you get hit is javelin throw recovery
    Removing/Reducing sprint lockout after getting your attack parried



  • Note that I don’t agree with all of the problems I listed in the OP. That list is just a compilation of things that have been mentioned. I might as well do mine, personally.

    Making 100% of all feints readable 100% of the time if the defender has enough skill
    Removing/Reducing sprint lockout after getting your attack parries
    Increasing flinch time on very slow two handed weapons
    Removing handle hits
    Nerfing Warbow damage
    Nerfing all Crossbows’ reload speed/projectile speed/damage
    Removing shield drop time/Buffing shields in some way
    Nerfing/Reworking Fire Pots
    Nerfing the Brandistock
    Nerfing the Greatsword
    Nerfing the Grand Mace
    Making MaA dodge purely defensive
    Nerfing HWS stab damage
    Buffing the Flails
    Reworking the Claymore
    Changing the Bearded Axe
    Buffing the Double Axe
    Buffing the Falchion
    Buffing the LS damage
    Fix getting stuck in javelin reload when you get hit is javelin throw recovery

    ^My personal list in order



  • i think vanguard knockback/stam drain should be nerfed before its weapons. After that ill still think gsword and brandistock need some nerfing.



  • pretty much disagree with everything except for:

    nerfing greatsword overhead speed from 0.5 to 0.525-0.55
    buffing dane axe and falchion
    reworking firepots (they don’t need a nerf, they just need to be changed from a grenade to an actual molotov)
    buffing shields
    nerfing brandi LMB



  • @Nohbdy111:

    Note that I don’t agree with all of the problems I listed in the OP. That list is just a compilation of things that have been mentioned. I might as well do mine, personally.

    Making 100% of all feints readable 100% of the time if the defender has enough skill
    Removing/Reducing sprint lockout after getting your attack parries
    Increasing flinch time on very slow two handed weapons
    Removing handle hits
    Nerfing Warbow damage
    Nerfing all Crossbows’ reload speed/projectile speed/damage
    Removing shield drop time/Buffing shields in some way
    Nerfing/Reworking Fire Pots
    Nerfing the Brandistock
    Nerfing the Greatsword
    Nerfing the Grand Mace
    Making MaA dodge purely defensive
    Nerfing HWS stab damage
    Buffing the Flails
    Reworking the Claymore
    Changing the Bearded Axe
    Buffing the Double Axe
    Buffing the Falchion
    Buffing the LS damage
    Fix getting stuck in javelin reload when you get hit is javelin throw recovery

    ^My personal list in order

    Nerfing archers - bows and xbows alike, backstab has to be removed, drawing/reloading should cost stamina, leg/body damage needs to be reduced (I’d settle for one of 1. Stamina, or 2. Reduced body/leg damage)

    Nerfing GS - One of the most powerful weapons in the game bar none. It makes the other Vanguard swords useless

    Nerfing HWS - The stab is ridiculous, mace stabs in general are silly and anti-fun

    Shield buffs - I don’t want shields overbuffed (I main shield knight), I just want a very, very tiny improvement in
    shields ability to 1vN, and I’d happily trade some stamina for it.

    Nerfing Firepots - Unblockable, and spammable. No idea why it exists in its current iteration.

    Reworking claymore - It barely animates properly most of the time. It shouldn’t be a one trick pony relying solely on poor animations.

    Nerf Brandistock - Lower LMB damage and potentially speed (the OH stab is a decent finisher and flincher)

    Buff LS - I will say that the SoW is a fair bit better than LS at the moment

    Buff Falchion - Needs some love

    I don’t think warhammer needs a buff. It already 2 shots everything in the game, you can use a shield, and it is actually draggable. I think it’s a matter of it being underrated.



  • @NoVaLombardia:

    pretty much disagree with everything except for:

    nerfing greatsword overhead speed to 0.525 to 0.55

    .525 to .55?

    More like .55 at least

    If it were .55 we could compare to to the Messer

    Greatsword
    -Slightly faster combo times
    -A shit ton longer
    -Better initiation with a higher damaging stab

    Messer
    -Higher damage

    Even then, I still fail to see how the Greatsword would be balanced. It should honestly be slower than the Messer IMO.



  • Don’t see how you can turn the MaA dodge into something which is purely defensive. An attack lockout time on his dodge would just be annoying. And if you are falling for MaA dodging at you and panic parrying early before he’s even attacked the fault is with the defender who panicked. It’s all part of the mind games.



  • @DokB:

    Don’t see how you can turn the MaA dodge into something which is purely defensive. An attack lockout time on his dodge would just be annoying.

    This seems like nothing more but opinion.

    And if you are falling for MaA dodging at you and panic parrying early before he’s even attacked the fault is with the defender who panicked. It’s all part of the mind games.

    No, I’m not doing that.



  • @Nohbdy111:

    This seems like nothing more but opinion.

    No, I’m not doing that.

    Why do you want the dodge to be purely defensive when the class isn’t OP? It would just be a nerf.



  • Then I don’t see the reason why dodge should be changed into purely a defensive skill. It dumbs down combat if you can only use it in one particular way.

    Nor do I see how you could change it in any way so it is purely defensive.



  • Ok I’m just going to comment on the ones I have an opinion on. Green = agree. Red = disagree. Amber=unsure.

    Making 100% of all feints readable 100% of the time if the defender has enough skill
    Not sure if this is actually possible.
    Removing handle hits
    Nerfing/Reworking Fire Pots
    Nerfing the Brandistock
    Nerfing the Greatsword
    Nerfing the Grand Mace
    Making MaA dodge purely defensive
    Making feints more forgiving
    _?? If you mean something like an attack directly after a feint does less damage then I agree.
    _**
    Changing the Bearded Axe
    Buffing the Double Axe
    Buffing the Warhammer
    Buffing the LS damage
    Buffing the SoW
    Only One Handed, it’s so stupidly out of whack compared with the Longsword One Handed
    Nerfing the Messer
    Buffing the Flails
    I think they need a reworking rather than a straight buff
    Reworking the Claymore
    Increasing flinch time on very slow two handed weapons
    Removing shield drop time/Buffing shields in some way
    Buffing the Bardiche
    Nerfing HWS stab damage
    Buffing the Dane Axe
    Buffing the Falchion
    Nerfing Warbow damage
    Nerfing all Crossbows’ reload speed/projectile speed/damage
    I just think it needs a big reload time increase.
    Fix getting stuck in javelin reload when you get hit is javelin throw recovery
    Removing/Reducing sprint lockout after getting your attack parried**


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