Reduce special daze from 1.8 back to 1.5



  • I think that the daze effect that happens if opponent is daze kicked while holding a block, or parrying without stamina should be lowered from 1.8 to 1.5 like it was in the start, because I think 1.8 is a little bit too long, because I think that you should kinda anticipate it, or react to it to be able to punish your opponent for going into daze, but with 1.8, you might aswell out of muscle memory just take a step-back, hesitate for a bit AND still be able to get in that free-hit from your opponent which I think is a bit lame.

    This change was made in favour of making Maul viable to punish people that are in daze, but that doesn’t make any sense. I think they should rather then make daze timer depend on the weapon’s windup so that Maul can get their free-hit too, but that one-handers will have a short time to gain their free-hit, but personally. Why should this be balanced around the weapon that is most likely going to actually put you into daze? It doesn’t make any sense if you ask me, slow weapons that hits hard are suppose to have a couple of downsides, especially when a Maul user can kinda already get a free hit sort of by feinting a opponent that got into daze and is most likely super pressures and will parry, then get the free-hit in after feinting.

    Tell me what you think about the idea folks. Give us more good stuff like you already did with the new flinch and bubble shrink!



  • @wildwulfy:

    I think that the daze effect that happens if opponent is daze kicked while holding a block, or parrying without stamina should be lowered from 1.8 to 1.5 like it was in the start, because I think 1.8 is a little bit too long, because I think that you should kinda anticipate it, or react to it to be able to punish your opponent for going into daze, but with 1.8, you might aswell out of muscle memory just take a step-back, hesitate for a bit AND still be able to get in that free-hit from your opponent which I think is a bit lame.

    This change was made in favour of making Maul viable to punish people that are in daze, but that doesn’t make any sense. I think they should rather then make daze timer depend on the weapon’s windup so that Maul can get their free-hit too, but that one-handers will have a short time to gain their free-hit, but personally. Why should this be balanced around the weapon that is most likely going to actually put you into daze? It doesn’t make any sense if you ask me, slow weapons that hits hard are suppose to have a couple of downsides, especially when a Maul user can kinda already get a free hit sort of by feinting a opponent that got into daze and is most likely super pressures and will parry, then get the free-hit in after feinting.

    Tell me what you think about the idea folks. Give us more good stuff like you already did with the new flinch and bubble shrink!

    Agreed, no one needs this much time to react to a special daze. It’s ridiculous.



  • I just think revert is better.

    It’s just bad math. Someone said “even with heavy kick you don’t have time to hit with a slow weapon like the Maul!” So they added kick recovery (0.4) to Maul windup (0.7) and release (0.6) = 1.7 - that’s for the overhead by the way, the slowest attack and they still added tenth of a second for good measure.

    The reason it’s bad math is that it completely ignores the fact that you don’t need the entire release time to hit. Even without an accelerated attack you generally hit somewhere in the middle of release. The only time you hit at the very end of release is if you’re dragging which seems silly in this scenario.

    Assuming that you hit half way through release you can still connect with a Maul after a kick with an overhead in 1.5 even if you aren’t accelerating at all.
    (kick recovery 0.4+windup 0.7+ half release 0.3=1.4)

    I hate the idea that it’s an automatic, easy, free hit. At least reverting back to 1.5 means you have to at least try a bit to get the hit in time, or force them to use a stab if they’re that bad.



  • The Maul is one of the slowest weapons in the game, people pick knowing it is slow as shit, why cater the entire stun mechanic for the 1 instance of allowing one of the slowest weapon in the game to hit? IT’S SLOW. Great for drags, shit for quick attacks!



  • It was once even over 2.0 seconds I believe, which was a complete overkill. it definently needs to be changed back to 1.5 if you ask, that was the best one. If you snoozed, you lost your opportunity for free-hit, but if you anticipate or react in time, you will be able to get the free-hit.



  • 1.65 /11110000



  • No. The daze is there to punish people for wasting stamina and to give the opportunity to exhaust your enemy especially with a slow and heavy weapon. Before running out of stamina only mattered if you enemy had a very light weapon - you were able to defend against the heavier one infinitely. Yes for kick daze though as its just way too long and slow weapon still got their stamina drain. But I would agree to a change where: - blocking when out of stamina does not give you new stamina - blocking when out of stamina does a potion of the attacks damage (e.g. 40%, -1% for each point of stamina still left) - out of stamina and kick daze reduced Note that the first and second point are required for reducing the out of stamina daze. Alternatively keep the timings for out of stamina daze but make it break on damage or make the daze timings depend on the weapon.



  • No. The daze is there to punish people for wasting stamina and to give the opportunity to exhaust your enemy especially with a slow and heavy weapon. Before running out of stamina only mattered if you enemy had a very light weapon - you were able to defend against the heavier one infinitely. Yes for kick daze though as its just way too long and slow weapon still got their stamina drain.

    But I would agree to a change where:

    • blocking when out of stamina does not give you new stamina
    • blocking when out of stamina does a potion of the attacks damage (e.g. 40%, -1% for each point of stamina still left)
    • out of stamina and kick daze reduced
      Note that the first and second point are required for reducing the out of stamina daze.

    Alternatively keep the timings for out of stamina daze but make it break on damage or make the daze timings depend on the weapon.



  • Agree with OP about the daze time.



  • You can punish people for getting dazed, infact you can very easily punish people even if you hesitate for a bit, which I think should be enough for you to lose your free-hit, this should be something you might want to react to right away, not something you would just take a step back cause you anticipate a counter-attack from your opponent, then you burn time and realize “OH, hey he is dazed.” and then you go forth and still you catch him while he is dazed with a rather slow weapon I think.



  • Agreed, daze time is way too long. Even 1.5 stun still guarantees you have the initiative. If you are fast, you get a free hit and punish them for being reckless with stamina. If you are slow, you can still feint it and maintain momentum.



  • Yes, even when using the Maul. You would only need to drag around your opponents parry, which is pretty easy since they will stand completely still when being dazed, or just getting out of daze.

    Or you might aswell throw in a feint, because who doesn’t really expect a desperation overhead if they see you get into daze, in hope to get that free hit? A simple feint could really throw you off since you are already pressured.



  • And they get stamina back. Also a slower daze time requires you to facehug to be able to punish your enemy for being out of stamina when using one of the slower weapons. You should not be forced to move into a position that doesn’t suit your weapon to use an advantage your weapon in supposed to give to you.

    Keep in mind the guy who parries when out of stamina gets a reward in form of free stamina. Why giving him a second reward in form of a better position and/or a free defense? Sure its frustrating to get stunned - but hey stamina management! Otherwise it would be frustrating for your enemy to finally whittle you down only for you to regain stamina and defend once again.

    In the end receiving damage for defending while out of stamina might be a better solution though as you get your punishment but keep control. But if the stamina gift is to stay the long daze needs to be there too.



  • @Evil:

    And they get stamina back. Also a slower daze time requires you to facehug to be able to punish your enemy for being out of stamina when using one of the slower weapons. You should not be forced to move into a position that doesn’t suit your weapon to use an advantage your weapon in supposed to give to you.

    Keep in mind the guy who parries when out of stamina gets a reward in form of free stamina. Why giving him a second reward in form of a better position and/or a free defense? Sure its frustrating to get stunned - but hey stamina management! Otherwise it would be frustrating for your enemy to finally whittle you down only for you to regain stamina and defend once again.

    In the end receiving damage for defending while out of stamina might be a better solution though as you get your punishment but keep control. But if the stamina gift is to stay the long daze needs to be there too.

    Then certain weapons need to drain less stamina/have less knockback.



  • IMO get rid of kick daze altogether.
    In terms of stamina stun i still like the idea, that i have mentioned a number of times before, where you can turn and move at walking speed during stamina stun, but are not able to jump/block/attack/perform other operations.


Log in to reply