Issues with Team Killing.



  • There’s been a lot of crap involving this. It is an integral part of the game and I understand it’s purpose, but people are just downright ridiculous.

    I was in a server today, which my team (Agatha in this case) was teamkilling each other left and right. I was getting team killed by a “JeremyHighlander” and I called him out, and everyone opted to say nothing. Jeremy just said “dude you got in the way”. There is a certain etiquette in team battle that when you fight you DO NOT SWING WHEN THERE ARE MORE TEAMMATES AROUND YOU. JeremyHighlander swung nonstop to kill his teammates just so he can secure a kill. But when I started a votekick, the team denied it? Because he was the top leaderboard when I joined. They all commented about how I sucked or whatever for being team killed? I mean really? It’s not even a personal problem I have. Next game, which was FFA, I dominated that game. Why? because there was no team kills.

    It seriously isn’t me ranting about a certain moment in my Chivalry game. Next server he continued to kill me and just kept saying “dude you’re in the way” when I CLEARLY wasn’t.

    What’s even more stupid is the round after that. He killed me right in the beginning so he can secure a kill. And he talked trash to me and told me to go “practice” or some crap. Like swinging at your own teammates isn’t a problem? What’s even more dumb is when I put up a vote they denied it, and he put one up and they ALL kicked me. Jeremy threatened screen shots of me “trying to kill him” when he swung at me. Ridiculous.

    This is just setting to PROVE a point i’m trying to make; there should be a punishment for team killing. Especially when you only need a few of your friends to put NO and favor against you to deny the vote.

    Honestly, there’s rants everywhere on this forum with people complaining how there’s always those 12 year olds who are indecent and troll the teammates. It’s very obvious it was happening. I don’t know if there is a log or whatever, but I can tell you now 100% I didn’t even kill jeremyhighlander once, yet he kept teamkilling me.

    TL;DR - PLEASE IMPLEMENT A SYSTEM WHERE TEAM KILLING IS PUNISHABLE.

    EDIT: I rejoined the server and he opted to try and kick me again for no reason. Isn’t there a rule against votekick abusing? He even admitted it to it and he’s trying to take over that server with all his troll friends.

    Here are some screens.

    http://imageshack.us/a/img35/1735/2012101300001.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img715/1214/2012101300002.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img32/2658/2012101300003.jpg
    http://imageshack.us/a/img819/3198/2012101300004.jpg



  • Punishable TKs is a bad system. Most people will never forgive a TK even when it was obviously purely accidental. If you see someone swinging wildly, don’t assume they’ll stop swinging just because there’s a teammate nearby. Just avoid them and fight someone else.

    If your kick vote on someone fails it means the majority of the server is either on that person’s side or don’t think there’s a problem. If you get vote kicked, I’m sorry to say but in the majority of situations that means the opposite for you.

    Vote kick abuse is only applicable when a group of people in a low population server are using it to control the server. From your screenshots I can’t determine that to be the case here. You seemed to be annoying those on your own team as well, and nobody is speaking up in your defense, so unless the entire server is this guy’s troll posse (which, again, there is no evidence of, especially since the second kick vote failed), doesn’t really support your argument. And if the entire server was being hostile towards you, why would you want to play there anyway?

    If you feel like you’re being abused, trolled or griefed in the future, contact me on Steam (http://steamcommunity.com/id/slygoat) and I’ll look into it - but I can’t pass judgment based on some very vague screenshots of a kick vote being called.



  • I disagree, this will continue until TK’ers are punished for being reckless. Even if it was pure accidental they need to learn to be more careful when close by teammates so fewer accidents happen. It’s not difficult if players were more aware of their surroundings and given greater reason to care.



  • You say that now, but wait until your one catapult shot goes awry, kills three teammates, and they all punish and get you kicked despite your apology. Post-release there’ll be servers where you can play without worrying about this perceived issue; there’ll likely be plenty of community servers with FF off, and most clan servers I suspect will amp the FF up from 50% to 100% and enforce some kind of anti-TK with proper moderation rather than a forgive/punish system, which I know from AoC doesn’t work in this type of game.



  • I understand your logic SlyGoat. There’s a lot of games that implement the TK system, especially BF3 (A game by which people can consider to be a game full of “kids” and etc.) and once it was introduced to the point of where it is now, people don’t automatically choose to punish. This game is supposed to have an amazing community (which is true to an extent), and I would like to think that this community is far better than BF3. Cause face it, for a game as commercially wide as BF3, there HAS to be a huge base of trolls. I’m not opting for banning, but a simple forgive or punish ingame would suffice. Something like if you punish them, they’d die. I mean one death does not change the course of the battle. If someone repeatedly TK’s (like 10+), maybe a server kick would be good?

    This game is full of great people, and there’s only a select few who are bad. I honestly think that servers should NOT have the ability to turn off FF, it’s an integral part of the game. It would break immersion and encourage people to spam left click instead of learning how to not attack teammates or watch their surroundings. This is meant to be a SKILL game, isn’t it?

    The Forgive/Punish system works only on people with a set code of ethics; which even the most trolls should be aware of. In game most people just say “sorry” and etc. for teamkills and that’s forgiving. I honestly didn’t care when he killed me the first time, but he continued to slander and kill me repeatedly after.

    There HAS to be a system where it teaches players to not jeopardize their teammates like that. In this game (which simulates reinforcements) it becomes a large part of the game when your teammates jeopardize your objectives by trying to be a one man army by swinging widely. It’s not so much as “avoiding” these people when they go to the exact same objective as you do, and do the exact same thing except they do not watch what’s going on around them and click left click and pray.

    While I do agree that some people will repeatedly “punish” players, it doesn’t break morale as much as a person not caring about his team and killing others without reason. In terms of a low population server and vote rigging, it doesn’t take that much of a majority to deny or favor the vote; especially when someone can change that.

    Most of the votes that happened today Slygoat, were based a very small margin (around 50~%) that I get kicked or denied. I’m not saying that the rigging should be changed, but the punishment of TK should be implemented.

    I shouldn’t have to be forced to switch servers because of a player that killed his teammates and say that “you’re in the way”. It just shouldn’t work like that. Even if I left it’s still a problem. I know it’s in beta but I think SOMETHING, if anything, should be done about this.

    People are coming in the medieval genre for the first time, and they need to know that it’s not right to spam in this game. How can a team build teamwork if a person is there killing others to get kills? Not only is that wrong it will promote an issue in the future when they can do this freely.

    Get 4-5 friends in the server with you, then you can deny any vote you want.

    Forgive/punish system, for a game like this, should be a good thing. The name “CHIVALRY” should denote it so. Players should be aware of their teammates and protect them. Players should learn that their actions have consequences. I even think to some extent this game promotes a sense of “chivalry” when it comes to playing. I mean, there is a community in this game that respects others, applauds others for killing them skillfully, and they generally have great fun doing so. But when there’s someone like that coming into play, what then? A player and his supportive friends join a server to ruin the day? Should half of the server just leave because they’re having a bad time?

    I know i’m writing a lot and I hope that you read at least the majority of it. Because i’m really stumped as to why there is only a vote-kick system. Anyone can be kicked and come back 5 minutes later. Even as a forgive/punish is flawed, at least it promotes a sense of chivalry that should stop players from killing their teammates and ACTUALLY be aware of their surroundings. I don’t slash when I play with my team; I overhead and stab and sometimes I don’t even hit in fear of killing my teammates. It is something that should be engraved on the mindset of others. FF should never be turned off, in fact I love it in this game. But people who can abuse it with no remorse or not caring about their teammates shouldn’t be allowed to do what they want.

    I know it seems like the whole server was against me or whatever, or that they generally thought there was no problem. It was only defined by a few things :

    1. This was after the beta key giveaway
    2. No one truly knew how to play yet
    3. They didn’t think it was a problem because he was at the top of the leaderboard whilst killing his teammates.
    4. He generally tried to defend himself by saying I was in the way (which no one really payed attention to)
    5. His friends defended him like he wasn’t doing anything wrong (ie. saying things like oh don’t get in the way, oh don’t go to the objective then, oh just leave) and opted to point to me as a problem.

    Saying sorry and forgiving works for the first few team kills… but when it’s deliberate and when it’s done over 5-10 times… it’s just ridiculous. I wasn’t the only one being killed. He’d kill at least 5-6 other people in the course of the entire round. But they visualize him as a good person because he’s top? I mean really? I’d be top too if I slashed without caring about my teammates.

    TL;DR - A forgiving/punishment system is justified for a game named after a code of honour. People need to learn consequences and need to realize that teammates are a valuable asset to the game. Server hopping away from trolls becomes fine once in a while, but what happens when every server has one? The solution to this issue is FIXING the people, not just abandoning them and straying away from them. When someone is doing something wrong, it is generally moral for another person to point out this mistake and show them how to be properly played. Even in battlefield 3, no one deliberately kills their teammates anymore in the past 100+ hours i’ve put into that game. I love this game far better than anything i’ve played in ages. There hasn’t been a game as great as this, and I just wanted to offer my input on a portion of the game.

    I’m not promoting a form of oppression or abuse; but this should definitely be looked into.



  • As long as friendly fire damage stays reduced, people won’t care for team kills, because: hey, at least you did more damage to the enemy. When people start teamkilling their mates in 2 swings, they’ll actually start to care about it. That’s my opinion on it, get rid of this friendly fire damage reduction.



  • Best system I saw: M&B mod c-RPG.

    When you’re team killed (or even team hit) you can press M to report the guy hitting you. After 5 reports he will be kicked from the server.

    Team killings were extremely rare in this mod. And if you got team killed everyone apologized quite naturely.



  • @Siegbert:

    Best system I saw: M&B mod c-RPG.

    When you’re team killed (or even team hit) you can press M to report the guy hitting you. After 5 reports he will be kicked from the server.

    Team killings were extremely rare in this mod. And if you got team killed everyone apologized quite naturely.

    Yes. I’ve played C-RPG as well. It was an amazing mod and one of the best medieval games.This is exactly what i’m trying to convey as well.

    @PowerZ:

    As long as friendly fire damage stays reduced, people won’t care for team kills, because: hey, at least you did more damage to the enemy. When people start teamkilling their mates in 2 swings, they’ll actually start to care about it. That’s my opinion on it, get rid of this friendly fire damage reduction.

    This is also applicable. Though it should be reserved for more “hardcore” servers and clan servers like SlyGoat mentioned.

    I’m all in favor of figuring out a way to punish TKers who don’t think on their feet.
    Slygoat, I know you’re trying to protect those who accidently kill, which is fine, everyone always forgives them. It’s not like I am tackling them as a byproduct of what i’m trying to express, it’s because the few who do not help the team or tk purposely should not be allowed the freedom they do now in beta. I know that as a game or as people we cannot change how other people want to play the game, but at least restrict it so that they do not ruin other’s gameplay as a result of it. Because I can only see the problem getting worse as this game gets extremely popular (because this game is amazing and has potential to be one of the best games of the year).



  • How about a teamkill and teamdeath stat? That way you can see who’s teamkilling who and how much. If not, make it like mount and blade where if you tk someone you lose a kill point, that’ll stop people from swinging through teammates just to get a kill.



  • If not, make it like mount and blade where if you tk someone you lose a kill point, that’ll stop people from swinging through teammates just to get a kill.

    I’ve never understood this, what’s the point of a stats system if the stats are wrong. Just because you killed 23 enemies and 2 teammates (regardless of whether it was a genuine mistake or not) doesn’t mean you killed 21 enemies. It skews the facts, and I’ve never liked it. By all means, add a method of displaying the number of TKs publically, but it shouldn’t make the scoreboard an unreliable source of actual kills, hell even 23(2) would be fine, the number in brackets being the number of TKs.



  • Yes I agree with you Martin. I hate it when that happens in other games. It really doesn’t prove anything or penalize anything.



  • Why not do it like War of the Roses? Any damage that hits an ally is dealt to you only. Aka if I’m not careful with my swings I can kill myself by hitting allies. This keeps a penalty in the game for swinging (or shooting/throwing) randomly but prevents abuse to others.



  • @Tsion:

    Why not do it like War of the Roses? Any damage that hits an ally is dealt to you only. Aka if I’m not careful with my swings I can kill myself by hitting allies. This keeps a penalty in the game for swinging (or shooting/throwing) randomly but prevents abuse to others.

    I normally don’t like this as it has only a self-serving effect. The goal should be that you care about your team rather than for yourself. It can be abused but it’s still the best system there is in a team oriented game.



  • @Tsion:

    Why not do it like War of the Roses? Any damage that hits an ally is dealt to you only. Aka if I’m not careful with my swings I can kill myself by hitting allies. This keeps a penalty in the game for swinging (or shooting/throwing) randomly but prevents abuse to others.

    That is the worst system ever invented to combat team killing. It creates a culture of fear fighting with teammates, rather than a culture of, we’re more, let’s get them! Not to mention completely unrealistic for Archers who appear to randomly get damaged and die for mistakes. Accidental team kills happen, you just have to deal with it, its a big part of melee games, it always will be in public environments. Purposeful team kills are a different story, and messing with gameplay to combat purposeful team kills is just poor game design - IMO of course.

    I think I’ll always stand by point-based systems for automatic TK control. A system that takes the ‘point giving’ out of the player’s hands, because lets face it, players are unreliable. They press ‘Do not forgive’ out of frustration most of the time. Back when we had an AoC server 3 years ago, we had a custom auto TK system made, and it was most of the time, flawless. You were awarded a point for each team attack, and a point was deducted for each enemy attack and further deducted for an enemy kill. If you performed several team attacks in a row, you would gain additional points, and if either a team attack led to a team kill, or multiple team attacks led to a team kills, you were also awarded points. After you reached a certain amount of points, you were kicked, if you returned and gained more points, you were temporarily banned. Granted, once you know how the system works, you can get around it by hitting a teammate, hitting an enemy, hitting a teammate etc, but we generally kept it a secret. It worked when we weren’t in the server, but really, it’s no true substitution for manual administration.



  • @Martin:

    It creates a culture of fear fighting with teammates, rather than a culture of, we’re more, let’s get them! Not to mention completely unrealistic for Archers who appear to randomly get damaged and die for mistakes.

    Just have the reflective team damage return at a reduced amount. It keeps punishment but you don’t kill yourself instantly with a single well placed hit to a teammate and as an archer I would just bandage after shooting into a crowd and hitting a few friendlies. I just don’t see this system being abused in War of the Roses like I do “team kills” in other games.



  • War of The Roses does not have the immersive gameplay that Chivalry does. No matter what you are going to suggest about reflective damage, it’s not going to happen. Not because TK should be ignored, but because alternating the gameplay of chivalry would be ridiculous. It is supposed to be realistic to an extent. I wouldn’t want to be “hurt” because of that. It’s ridiculous to have that thought. It doesn’t promote anything or fix anything in my opinion. It would only worsen the gameplay. And unlike War of The Roses, you can’t just auto-bandage in Chivalry and spam that heal. Though there is regen, it’s not where near as dumb as WoTR’s system.

    It also promotes bad habit by what you just said. Why care about swinging blindly when you can heal up later? That doesn’t solve anything.

    the whole point of this topic and issue is to get players to watch their surroundings and be skillful when they swing or attack around teammates. NOT shoot blindly into a crowd or swinging and heal later. It doesn’t work in real life and it doesn’t work in chivalry or any skill based game you’re looking for.

    It also needs to penalize repeating offenders while NOT taking away the skill in the game.



  • @Martin:

    @Tsion:

    Why not do it like War of the Roses? Any damage that hits an ally is dealt to you only. Aka if I’m not careful with my swings I can kill myself by hitting allies. This keeps a penalty in the game for swinging (or shooting/throwing) randomly but prevents abuse to others.

    That is the worst system ever invented to combat team killing. It creates a culture of fear fighting with teammates, rather than a culture of, we’re more, let’s get them! Not to mention completely unrealistic for Archers who appear to randomly get damaged and die for mistakes. Accidental team kills happen, you just have to deal with it, its a big part of melee games, it always will be in public environments. Purposeful team kills are a different story, and messing with gameplay to combat purposeful team kills is just poor game design - IMO of course.

    I think I’ll always stand by point-based systems for automatic TK control. A system that takes the ‘point giving’ out of the player’s hands, because lets face it, players are unreliable. They press ‘Do not forgive’ out of frustration most of the time. Back when we had an AoC server 3 years ago, we had a custom auto TK system made, and it was most of the time, flawless. You were awarded a point for each team attack, and a point was deducted for each enemy attack and further deducted for an enemy kill. If you performed several team attacks in a row, you would gain additional points, and if either a team attack led to a team kill, or multiple team attacks led to a team kills, you were also awarded points. After you reached a certain amount of points, you were kicked, if you returned and gained more points, you were temporarily banned. Granted, once you know how the system works, you can get around it by hitting a teammate, hitting an enemy, hitting a teammate etc, but we generally kept it a secret. It worked when we weren’t in the server, but really, it’s no true substitution for manual administration.

    I agree that this is a much better system than punish/forgive. Still imperfect, but much better than anything proposed before.



  • I believe Manual TKing punishment is the only way to fight human unreliability (by using admins or votekicks).

    Reverse friendly damage is one of the things that are absolutely hated by quite a huge number of people I have met.

    Also, Tking can be as frustrating as funny : epic fails caused by TKs are a reliable source of "lol"s.



  • @Martin:

    If not, make it like mount and blade where if you tk someone you lose a kill point, that’ll stop people from swinging through teammates just to get a kill.

    I’ve never understood this, what’s the point of a stats system if the stats are wrong. Just because you killed 23 enemies and 2 teammates (regardless of whether it was a genuine mistake or not) doesn’t mean you killed 21 enemies. It skews the facts, and I’ve never liked it. By all means, add a method of displaying the number of TKs publically, but it shouldn’t make the scoreboard an unreliable source of actual kills, hell even 23(2) would be fine, the number in brackets being the number of TKs.

    Sorry to rez this thread if it’s long dead. I found it via Google.

    I absolutely agree with showing TKs on the scoreboard, as well as TK-related deaths. I only play MAA and we tend to get ourselves TK’d more than the average bear due to low survivability in a world of LMB 2h weapons. It would be great if my death count showed 10(4). At least the world would know I’m not a TOTAL nub. ;)

    I’m also a fan of instating an X number of strikes and you’re out method of TK punishment. You kill a teammate, they get the option to “Punish” or “Forgive”. You get punished 5 times (or whatever) in a single round, you get booted, with a 15 minute ban from that particular server. I’ve seen plenty of unapologetic guys killing 1 teammate for every 3 enemies, believing that ratio somehow makes it okay to swing away with no regard for friendly fire. I think not.



  • what i want is a bracket for team deaths, its a stat worth tracking (especially because it matters for having a scorebord anyways. for eample if i died 5 times, but three were allies killing me i would have 2(3)

    i make it to the top three spots often, and while i play team obj and dont always go for kills, when i do, i want my score shown properally. i shouldnt look liek a average player with lets say 7/5 when onyl two enemies actually killed me, 7/2(3) would be better. i also wouldnt mind seeing a tk collom like mentioned above.